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Thread: Warrior-Tank problems especially aggro-wise. Advise highly appreciated

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    8
    Fellow Meat shields,

    I need some advice.

    My Profile - http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...7nilash&n=Suke

    As you can see I have some really nice gear, please ingor the Defence I logged out with the wrong ring on.

    Current Progression - 11/12 10 Man some heroic's, 11/12 25 Man Normal.

    I was invited into our A Group this past weeks raid we managed a few heroic mode bosses - cake ones like Gunship.

    We spent the second night after downing Sinda 1 shot, on LK Normal 10 mode.

    I have tanked as a prot warrior since the start of wow 5+yrs I keep up on the lastest and greatest and fully understand the roll spec gem gearing etc. thanks to the many folks here at tank spot and over at EJ and Cyberhelm is still my ShieldSlam hero...

    Anyway on LK and granted I am very frustrated, I was up for the first 5 attempts on LK and Pallie took the Shamblers and at the transitation I grabed the Rageing Spirts /tar rag /cast taunt - get the first one and its close to dead before the second comes up - second pops up I am on it - taunt (mouse click mob selection click taunt) it runs towards me; before it reaches me either the hunter or the warlock has it heading back toward them - I have vig on the Pallie tank for the semi insta taunt - wait the 1 sec use cd and click taunt again. 60deg frontal face area for taunt correct? so based on where its spawns and a turn and if the firt is dead ill respam the macro

    Start of phase 1 while pulling over LK 5 to 3 sec prior to combat - pre pot instruct, bloodrage, shield block, heroic throw, MD goes off, shield slam, stacking dev/sunder, poping Shockwave, and the hunter that MDed me, has agro over me and the lock right on my heals - are they just not giving me the lee-way I need to get good established threat and out running them seems to remain an issue, I took time to look into the locks set up only 10% threat reduction talented - burns his soul shatter, and the hunter poping fiegn...

    Because they are use to a DK and Pallie and going full boar the sec combat starts, do I need to push for more start time from them or gear/gem/glyph/talent(done some already) and ran the numbers (I should be pulling close to 9 to 10 k tps worst case 7 to 8. So very frustrated shifted away some of my pure stam for the exp/stam where it made sence.

    After this we swaped rolles and thsoe 2 attempts went really well - I grabed Shamblers and on move in to center charged LK CSed every thing and the Pallie took LK off as I moved RS off to the side faceing away. few bad defile (gulf oil spill) and we ran out of raid time for the night...61% avg.

    So I am looking for some samples of other prot wars on LK or on this fight and the roll they play and are your dpser giving leeway or dot before things reach you, and the changes I plan on making are going back to stam stacking - using exp food and grabing the revenge glyph and sticking those 2 point into crueity again.

    But I really felt like I was a broke tank many times durring the raid.

    Much Apresh tips pointers etc. Roatation, and if your not a prot war in @ lk or beyond I can read and don't need repost or theroy looking for first hand knowledge...

    Thanks,
    HankHill

    DAMN IT BOBBY!

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    37

    First of all many thanks to all who have responded sofar.


    @IgnusFatus:
    Thanks for your advice.
    I already did change the cloak enchant to armor and I will rework my gemming as suggested by you and many others.
    Vigilance: I normally have that on a high DPS, putting this on my healer was a try which was not so successful but helped sometimes in HdR.
    Rotation is fine from my side, I normally do it as you mentioned with situational changes when necessary. I even use heroic throw for casters and then lure them around a corner.


    @Harmacy
    I use TC or SW to get attention, it is sometimes simply not enough, especially with mindless DPS fireing their AoE first sight.
    I do not spam Cleave till rage starved, but glyphed I find it very useful.


    But what would be my alternative to glyphing Cleave. Devastate? Vigilance? I find devastate not so useful, in trash mobs it does not matter too much, and on bosses I get up 5 sunders quick enough. Being deficient to multi-mob encounters compared to a Tankadin or DK I still stick to Cleave, especially to be able to tank the daylies well which I do regularly for getting better equip for my dps gear.
    But I think I should carry some glyphs with me to change every time its raiding day. Once more my question, what glyph should go there for raiding? HS? Vig? Dev?


    Back to the topic:
    I also use challenging shout when I feel out of control, that helped esp. in last wave of HdR mobs to regain control.


    @ SeptimX
    I did not use TAB-target changing to much on multi mob encounters, especially not rotating through all targets because in random PUGs I felt in quite good control and never saw the nee because I was able to TC, SW and cleave to bind the mobs, but perhaps the feeling of control resulted from the lack of direct feedback from me side (my girlfriend) indicating that I am NOT in control.
    I think the DPS did not use any of their CC tools apart from our hunter, there lies a problem I was not aware of as well in my opinion.



    @Loganisis
    Thanks for the strategy on how to divide targets between pallies and warriors. We did not always do this correctly in the past. Normally I was considered maintank and I ran in lead on trash.


    About self heals on pallies: I do not really know anything about that, my warrior in my one and only char so far. Anybody got conclusive data on that?


    Gemming: I will do as you stated. 40 more stam sounds great! And as many others mentioned, I do not give up much in exchange.



    @Dreador
    Thanks for Ony tactics, I will establish ‘em.


    @MellvarTank:
    Enemies do not get behind me, I am aware of the danger ^^ and I use my couldowns as good as possible to minimize burst damage from special attacks. I als o have my trinket(s) on keybinding.



    @swelt
    I have extensive keybindings. I changed them at around lvl 50 using the tankspot guides as a guideline on this topic. I think I know by now blindly where my abilities are, all 20something of em and I rarely miss what I want to have.
    TC and demo shout are always up if I am facing more than 3 mobs or a boss.
    I think my healer lost confidence in me, even after our first ICC run with our raid when we downed lower citadel, festergut and rotface in first try with less than 10 wipes overall. Time was up after rotface, we are planning to go post professor / dreamwalker this week. (group consisted of 10 man / women around my gearscore (I know what you say, gs is no measure, I put it anyway to give an impression of gear lvl) with two DPS in the higher 5ks around 5.8k.



    @ Passive:
    As I stated above, my keybindings are extensive and well known to me. But thanks for your suggestion, I know a lot of clickers who stay below their potential.
    Camera control is fine I think, I zoom out quite a lot, have mouse camera and sometimes, if necessary, I rotate my camera to see me frontside to get a better impression of the raid.



    @Guderian
    What weapons do you suggest?


    I did not find a suitable one compared to replace my mace from Marrowgar? All good weapons with defensive stats are fast. Perhaps I should change to a DPS-spec weapon with non defensive stats on it?
    Anyway, for trash I was quite happy with a fast weapon to be able to apply cleaves more rapidly or more HS on bosses where rage starvation is almost non-existent.
    Is that a misconception or is Griff right?


    For speccing I still refused to dump focused rage in favour of Shield Specialization because I felt it could result in rage starvation. Is that an error in my thinking?



    Dunno who mentioned it but I use tidy plates which I love for its help as a tank!



    Thanks once more for all of your hints and strategies!


  3. #23
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    381
    Quote Originally Posted by Harmacy View Post
    Paladins have self-heals?
    Sure they do but its a bit situational. We did BQL last night and the paladin tank did 6k hps by throwing Judgement of Light on the queen. Was 50% over healing sure but still :-)

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    533
    Quote Originally Posted by Drasnal View Post
    Anyway, for trash I was quite happy with a fast weapon to be able to apply cleaves more rapidly or more HS on bosses where rage starvation is almost non-existent.
    Is that a misconception or is Griff right?
    Griff is right, faster weapons provide higher TPS in both single target and AoE situations. Slower weapons on the otherhand have potential for higher DPS with Devastate spam, but I don't think it's really a smart way to go about it.
    Crommi | Archaic Order | Lightning's Blade EU

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    4
    what i am referring to with slow weapon is holding aggro off more than 3 targets. (which is reliant upon thunderclap and its crit that results in deep wounds, same with shockwave and tab targeting) usually these weapons will not have tank stats on them, but if you can get one with sockets you can make it more acceptable. All i am saying is it fits in with my tanking style and I have no aggro issues on multiple targets. If you feel comfortable trying it, go for it... if not, then don't. I keep a typical tank weapon in my bag for boss fights since vs bosses more mitigation is important. there are plenty of 2.6 speed weapons that drop in ICC, there's a suitable axe off the heroic gunship battle, and that is one that can be done every time without issue.

    as far as the focused rage vs shield specialization... full shield specialization will give you 5 rage every dodge, block or parry in addition to increased mitigation. Focused rage will probably be helpful again on boss fights. But I was replying in reference to multi target tanking.

    its up to you of course... whether you try it or just doubt it is your choice... imo there is no right and wrong if both methods work... its just personal preference.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    604
    Yeah..I had the same thoughts when Broken Promise dropped for me on my first naxx run. I played around with trying to work rend into my rotation and using the sword for trash pulls and switching to a fast weapon for bosses but it just didn't feel useful in the long run. There was some conversation about this a while back on these very forums (IIRC) and someone did the math to show that fast weapons are better in aoe/single target.

    Do whatever feels groovy for you though, my tanking brother from another mother.

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