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Thread: Threat-capped druid tank

  1. #1
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    Threat-capped druid tank

    I need some advice!

    I'm a druid tank in my guild, and recently the 10s group that I normally go with to ICC had some people not be able to make our LK attempts (trying to get some others in the guild titles/LK kills), so we swapped in some others who also have their titles (from another 10s group). In doing so, we lost our normal misdirects, and had none. Our normal 10s has 2 hunters, no rogues. We also were missing our usual ret paladin, so no HoS either. The DPS we got in are some of our best in guild (feral druid and blood DK), and I was struggling mightily to keep LK aggro, and failed a few times.

    We went back in again tonight, though not with those 2 DPS, and no misdirects. Though we did have the pally back. Again, I was seriously hard-pressed to keep aggro off the ret pally and the enhance shaman this time.

    We gave up and went to do our normal Sarth+3 with the group. Again, no misdirects. I had to taunt Sarth back a number of times due to a feral druid (different one, still well-geared), the enh shaman, and the paladin all pulling off me, so we had a number of wipes before we got it down.

    This is me: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...Llane&cn=Ruana

    My normal rotation is Mangle every cooldown, FFF, and Lacerate. I tend not to swipe on LK because I end up holding the Drudge Ghouls to me instead of getting them to the OT, but I started trying to swipe when I was having threat problems. I also don't Berserk on LK himself, again because of the ghouls, and I save it for the Raging Spirits. I don't Demo Roar because we have the ret pally, but when he wasn't there, I added that into my rotation.

    Maul is macro'd to Mangle and Swipe, but not to Lacerate as I found I was getting rage-starved in the past, so I just kept it on those 2. I should probably add it back into Lacerate?

    I swap the Glyph of Maul with Glyph of Growling, usually for Saurfang, and swap it back afterwards. I recently respecced to Brutal Impact, since we were missing the ret paladin and I wanted to be able to stun every Valk. Before that, I had 2/3 King of the Jungle.

    I am looking for any advice on what I can do to increase my threat generation when I don't have a misdirect handy.

  2. #2
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    Hello reek@nordrassil here we are also at the LK currently (currently cant see armoury @work), as we tend to be range light, if we do have a hunter he will miss direct the big boys who come out of the ground to the OT.I would suggest using bersek at the begin as the cooldown isnt that bad and you will be able to use it again within the Raging Spirits phase (not at the start but still in that phase)I have to say I Mangle,FFF,Laceratex5,Swipe and maul until the cows come home if I get any Drudge Ghouls the OT responsabilty is to take them off me. To assist him we have the rogue Tricks(think thats the name of it) them when there come else I pick them up and he taunts them off me.Are OT for this fight puts vigilance onto me which means he can taunt like nobodies bussness. Even with the 10% less threat not noticed a issue..... yet. Are problem is the defile once we get ppl to move we will get there.

  3. #3
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    We don't have a warrior OT, most of the time we have a paladin or another druid. The one time I did have warrior OT, he did manage to grab the ghouls.

    We get to Phase 2/transition before 3 minutes are up, so I don't want to user Berserk right off the bat.

    And again, I don't have a rogue for tricks or a hunter for misdirects. That's the problem, so I'm looking for another solution!

  4. #4
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    I know its pretty obvious and you've likely already consisdered it but hand of salvation? Personally, I find the whole dynamic of tank threat being partially dependant on generous dollops of 'gift threat' from other classes to be a bit strange. Whatever happened to bring the player, not the class?

  5. #5
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    Curious to see what is the real cause here you are both over hit and Expertise cap (hard hit and soft EXP) so the fact that you have threat problems surprises the snot out of me as you are Geared EXCELLENTLY for Threat and Survivability . Your Specs seem to neither have Threat focused out they are fairly mixed up from what i see.

    http://www.wowhead.com/talent#0ZVGhscrz0ekccuAkbyc0b

    I am not a pro druid (mine is level 65 and i play him as EL POLLO GRANDE most of the time) some other druids might know if the spec is any good or if threat is a spec issue.

  6. #6
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    On your talents you could drop OOC (you should never be so rage starved that a proc will make or break your threat), Brutal Impact is of situational need (you said that you used the stun on the Val'kyr) is the +1 second stun/-30 second CD needed on the LK fight? I haven't looked at the timer for the spawn. I run with a Prot Warrior and do not need Infected Wounds. If you could find a way to spec into Master Shapshifter the +4% damage done will help with threat considerably. I recommend NOT taking KotJ (the spec you switched from) as the +4% constant from MS is more threat overall than +5% for 10 seconds.

    This is just the spec I use because of the raid comp we run with. You may need to keep the Infected Wounds. Just try to find a way to get into MS.

    I can't get a good armory link (at work) but I'm on Llane as well. Alathirin (I'm going to take a point out of Furor and fill Imp. LotP)
    For those who understand, no explanation is necessary; For those who do not, no explanation is possible.

  7. #7
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    Maul is macro'd to Mangle and Swipe, but not to Lacerate as I found I was getting rage-starved in the past, so I just kept it on those 2. I should probably add it back into Lacerate?
    Yes.

    At your gear level, maul is about 70% of your total threat. If you are getting rage starved, that's a problem - but maul should always be your highest priority, and yes, it should be higher than lacerate stacks falling off. Your spec is otherwise fine; you can go for 4% more damage via NS/MS, but you'll lose some utility and it probably won't make a difference.

    Honestly, it's probably your opening. How are you opening the fight? I usually open with ff/charge to pull, mangle, lacerate, berserk and then go nuts on berserk. That gives me enough of a lead to go into a rotation. It would also possibly help to swap out some of the items with parry for cat items; while your survival will go down, the dps increase should help some.

  8. #8
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    @felhoof

    For LK I pull with FF, mangle, and then slowly drag him to where we're set up to tank him (which is me standing on the teleporter). He will stop to Infest and then stop to summon his ghouls, and then I usually get him into the spot and start up the rotation.

    As I said above, I don't use Berserk there because I found I needed it more for Raging Spirits, and Phase 1 doesn't last long enough for it to be up again by the time we're all on the edge and the spirits are up. I did try it a few times but found we were having DPS problems on the 2nd raging, so I wanted to make sure we only had one up at the next transition.

    @geeksbsmrt If I don't have any points in Brutal Impact, I definitely can't stun each Valk. I did not try with just one point into it, however.

    I was KotJ originally because I was called upon to kitty a lot (this was back when I had a resto offspec and not a kitty one), so my spec was a wee bit hybrid. I don't think it'd go back to it, but I did think that since Enrage is now a cooldown, it might help with threat with the damage increase? But likely not.

    At this point, I can't spec out of Infected Wounds. The group makeup doesn't have anyone else (save the OT, another feral druid) with an attack speed slow.

    I got Rimetooth Pendant, but it's currently gemmed for kitty. I can swap it out with the neck and see how it goes.

    @Tinytankz - can't give up Feral Swiftness - it's a dodge increase - nor Natural Reaction. That's not a tank spec I'd ever want to consider, sorry.

  9. #9
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    Well, if you can't berserk, I'd consider trying to get points in KotJ instead of imp mangle. While it's not a win in terms of overall TPS, it gives you 15% burst threat right off the bat, and that might help enough. That with the 4pT10 should be nice, and at least for P1 you won't need the cooldown at any specific time.

  10. #10
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    O i was just looking at max threat no hard feelings. Like i said another person can comment as to what can really help.

  11. #11
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    I notice you said you have Maul macroed to Mangle and Swipe. Are you also hitting Maul manually or are you relying on your macros for all your Mauls? If so then that may be your threat problem right there. As felhoof stated Maul is by far your biggest threat ability. You want every swing to be a Maul to maximize your threat.

  12. #12
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    Hi,

    There are some things that I saw with your gear and spec that you may want to consider.

    Firstly I am a firm believer in hit cap. You aren't, even with a Heroic Presence in the group. You may want to check that out. If you have other gear that you use to get your hit up then I apologise but you are below hit cap on the armory right now.

    Secondly you spec is a bit weird if you are the MT. Maybe this is my personal preference but Brutal impact is not needed. Your Infected Wounds is a good enough slow and all other DPS should be stunning not the tank. You should be concentrating on Soul Reaper, Defiles etc. OoC is a wasted point. You should defintely go for full Master Shifter for the extra damage. Also....and this is once again from experimentation.....Imp.Mangle is a waste of points for bears (explanation shortly).

    Your gear is basically a mirror of mine so I can't see where you are getting rage starved from. You should have Maul macroed to all 3 of you attacks. Your best rage will come from lacerate to 5 and then spam swipe until u need to refresh lacerate and mangle. Here I use the longer cooldown of mangle to be my timer as it fits perfectly with Lacerate. Thats why you shouldn't spec into improved mangle as a bear. Infact you don't even need to mangle as you increased maul damage will feed off of the lacerate bleed effects.

    Why spam swipe? Well you are specced for Swipe (FI) and you have the 2-set bonus for swipe. In my experience swipe crits for almost 2.5k on LK 25man every cooldown. That is uber threat. Without MB's etc I am doing 10k+ TPS. With MDs etc upwards of 20k+.

    Glyph wise I would say that you definitely only need Growling and Frenzied Regen. For the last major slot, I carry a Maul and Mangle and swap out when needed. I have yet to find a place where 85k or 100k+ with SI on is not enough.

    Hopefully I have added some insight for you but looking at your gear, I think just tweak your rotation. My maul crits for 9k+. Maul + Swipe = your threat

    Have a good one

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dracosveen View Post
    Hi,
    Firstly I am a firm believer in hit cap. You aren't, even with a Heroic Presence in the group. You may want to check that out. If you have other gear that you use to get your hit up then I apologise but you are below hit cap on the armory right now.
    That isn't going to solve anything, ignore this.

    Secondly you spec is a bit weird if you are the MT. Maybe this is my personal preference but Brutal impact is not needed. Your Infected Wounds is a good enough slow and all other DPS should be stunning not the tank. You should be concentrating on Soul Reaper, Defiles etc. OoC is a wasted point. You should defintely go for full Master Shifter for the extra damage. Also....and this is once again from experimentation.....Imp.Mangle is a waste of points for bears (explanation shortly).
    Brutal Impact is not needed agreed. OoC isn't a wasted point, it adds up sometimes. MS is an option, but as Felhoof said, it's pretty small with loss of utility as you pillage other talents. Imp Mangle is a valid choice, ignore this part of the advice, as it's a big threat boost.

    Your gear is basically a mirror of mine so I can't see where you are getting rage starved from. You should have Maul macroed to all 3 of you attacks. Your best rage will come from lacerate to 5 and then spam swipe until u need to refresh lacerate and mangle. Here I use the longer cooldown of mangle to be my timer as it fits perfectly with Lacerate. Thats why you shouldn't spec into improved mangle as a bear. Infact you don't even need to mangle as you increased maul damage will feed off of the lacerate bleed effects.

    Why spam swipe? Well you are specced for Swipe (FI) and you have the 2-set bonus for swipe. In my experience swipe crits for almost 2.5k on LK 25man every cooldown. That is uber threat. Without MB's etc I am doing 10k+ TPS. With MDs etc upwards of 20k+.

    Glyph wise I would say that you definitely only need Growling and Frenzied Regen. For the last major slot, I carry a Maul and Mangle and swap out when needed. I have yet to find a place where 85k or 100k+ with SI on is not enough.

    Hopefully I have added some insight for you but looking at your gear, I think just tweak your rotation. My maul crits for 9k+. Maul + Swipe = your threat

    Have a good one
    SI > Frenzied Regen. By a large margin.
    You should be macroing maul. There are only a few fights where this doesn't help or is detrimental (saurfang).

    A few points to consider
    -Next to Maul and Mangle, FFF is the next best for threat. Try weaving them more in to your rotation instead of swipe spam once you have 5 stacks of lacerate and demo roar is up. In fact, without Imp mangle, you can FFF on the GCD after you mangle.
    -Since you have 4pct10, KotJ is mandatory. Drop brutal impact and possibly 1 point in imp mangle to fill that out. This will have 2 effects: first, using enrage will give you all the rage you need to start out, and it will give you a 15% threat boost to start, as Felhoof already mentioned. The 12% damage reduction is gravy, until you start managing your enrage later on as a defensive CD.
    -Try this rotation on start: Pull with FFF, charge, Enrage, Maul+mangle, Maul+Demo Roar, Maul+lacerate->repeat until mangle is up, Maul+mangle, Maul+FFF,Maul->lacerate until 5, Maul+Swipe until Mangle/FFF is up or Lacerate needs refreshing, etc.

    Other minor things, agi/stam on head and hit/stam over def/stam in chest.

  14. #14
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    I use the following spec to tank our 10man LK:
    http://www.wowhead.com/talent#0ZVGGs...cczAkbAc0b:Mn0
    I dont find KotJ very useful, so I choose the 4% physical damage from MS.
    You shouldn't have any rage starving issue, each hit from LK will give you full rage bar XD
    Definitely macro lacerate with maul! I think it would be a good threat bump.
    DPS shouldn't start dps before you put LK in the designate spot. If they do, ask them to hold back. If they pull off you in the middle of the fight, then the problem might be your rotation. You can check Darksend's Guide here for rotation details.

    Your hit and expertise are a little bit low, I would recommend the 264 LW crafted boots which has a good amount of expertise. You can also use 20 hit enchant to gloves, or 10hit/15sta gems in yellow sockets with stamina bonus. I personally don't take the agility bonus on leathers (except for the head which has a 8 agility bonus) and socket full stamina instead.

  15. #15
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    Part of killing the harder bosses is to get a decent group, which doesnt always means the best people, but class synergy at least. You need to put your foot down, and explain that them asking you to do LK without a md(rogue or hunter) is unacceptable!

    I had this situation before in TOGC 10m HM, when we finally killed Anuburak HM, the rest of the guild assumed they would be able to come in next week and one shot it just cause we killed it, and all they would have to do is keep me as tank, and put in the rest of the new guys (I kept quiet and let the GM make this new group , which ended up as an all caster dps group so im the only interuptor and and no mds, was the hardest i ever had to work, made even worse by my 0 hit rating block set, i swore after that I will never do that fight again without a md and a back up interuptor)
    Last edited by Krays; 07-12-2010 at 09:10 AM.

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