ICC-25 Prot Warrior Gearing

[Galarungi]

Good morning folks. Before anything, here's my armory link: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...r&cn=Galarungi

So I was in ICC-25 last night, and the following chestpiece dropped (also got the 264 helm off Deathwhisper! Woot! =P): http://www.wowhead.com/item=50024

I was the only plate tank that didn't have it yet, so I won it. I'm trying to figure out which is the better chest for me to be wearing at this point. While my current chest has loads more armor and expertise, this chest will boost up my dodge by about 1.5%. I have the 251 legs to somewhat make up for the loss in expertise if need be, so I am wondering which would be the better chest for me to use.

In order to use this chest I would have to do 1 of 2 things. Either re-gem my Shifting Dreadstones to pure expertise gems or expertise/stamina gems. Or I could switch out my 264 legs for the 251 tiers to make up for the loss in expertise. I figure that this could be a decent situational chest for an avoidance set as long as I don't regem and switch out to my legs as well. If it's hands down better, then regemming isn't an issue, but with the loss in armor I can't really see how that could be.

Also, what are your thoughts on my yellow slot gems? Currently I'm putting defense/stamina gems in there to help with overall avoidance, as defense rating helps across the board, but I could be persuaded to switch those out for pure stamina gems if you guys think that its an issue. I haven't really had any issues with dying so I'm not sure how big of a deal it is.

Any pointers you guys have would be greatly appreciated!

[Loganisis]

You're giving up 1170 armor. In ICC you're going to get hit more often, which is why armor is more valued than avoidance. That extra 1.5% dodge means you'll avoide 1.5 out of every 100 swings on average, but due to RNG you never know when that will be. 1170 armor is almost always useful (sans magic damage).

You're not Exp capped but you're way over hit-capped. So losing the Exp for hit is a threat loss. THough you're glyphed for threat so it's more a personal choice.

Regarding gemming. If the socket bonus isn't at least +9 per hybrid gem, it's not likely to be a surviability increase to hit the socket bonus. Typically this means you only go with something other than +30 sta for head and waist. Usually. It depends on the sockets.

The cookie cutter suggestion is to stay with Cataclysmic, swap most of your hybrid gems for +30 sta (keeping the head and waist to hit the +9 socket bonuses and activate the meta - I wouldn't worry about hitting the leg's +12 because it requires 2 hybrids or only +6 per hybrid). If your threat is okay you might want to think about swapping some of your threat glyphs for surviability glyphs (Last Stand, Shield Wall, Blocking, and/or Taunt though that's not a survability glyph).

[MellvarTank]

That extra 1.5% dodge means you'll avoide 1.5 out of every 100 swings on average

No, it means that on a hit by hit basis you have an extra 1.5% chance not to be hit. When extrapolated it does not play out like "I'll dodge 1.5 out of every 100 hits", it is quite different.

Stick with the Cataclysmic Chestguard.

[Loganisis]

No, it means that on a hit by hit basis you have an extra 1.5% chance not to be hit. When extrapolated it does not play out like "I'll dodge 1.5 out of every 100 hits", it is quite different.

Stick with the Cataclysmic Chestguard.

Are you referring to the level difference factors between a lvl 83 raid boss and a lvl 80 character, the random nature of RNG or both?

[Galarungi]

Alright, I'll be switching out the gems on my legs & rings to pure stamina gems. I was a little uncertain on that. And yes, I know armor is king in ICC, just wondering if it would in any way be an upgrade in any type of situation. Used to be at expertise cap (31 I believe) until I switched out the 245 triumph helm for the 264 Deathwhisper. Lost something like 60 expertise when I switched it out.

Do you think my current expertise level is needing a few gems? I could throw in a couple expertise/stamina gems, replacing my shifting dreadstones with them, to get back to the cap if you think it would be an issue. I didn't have a problem holding threat on Deathbringer, Festergut and MT on Rotface. Usually a consistent 12k TPS. I also never use shockwave on bosses, only trash, so I think I'll swap that out for either Shield Wall or Last Stand. Which is better in your opinion? I'd like to keep cleaving to help with trash and the occassional random heroic (makes like less stressful especially with zero rage). Also, thoughts on devastate? Not sure if that's still a good glyph to be using, especially since it has moved down in my rotation. Will that result in a big loss to my threat when I use devastate? Normal Rotation is as follows (HS spamming as much as possible of course):

-Revenge
-Shield Slam (though I do it first when I have Shield Block up)
-Devastate when Revenge & SS are down
-Thunderclap once the buff has worn off on the boss

I do usually end up spamming devastate as well though, so I still kinda consider it a staple in my rotation. But I definitely agree about more survivability glyphs especially since I am now getting into 25-man progression.

There's not much I can do about my current hit rating level, not gemming for it or anything, just all the gear I got has hit. The one quick fix I can see would be to replace my 264 legs with the 251 tier. This will drop my hit and give me back my expertise without regemming. I was doing an item comparison and really the only thing that will be affected in my parry rating. What do you guys think? Gem a little for expertise to get back to the cap, or swap out my current legs for the tier set (still working on getting a mark of sanctification though, haven't gotten one yet).

Also, do I look geared for hardmode 10-man? Thanks again guys.

[MellvarTank]

Are you referring to the level difference factors between a lvl 83 raid boss and a lvl 80 character, the random nature of RNG or both?

I'm referring to the fact that if Avoidance worked that way, everyone would be walking around with a set of armor that had pure avoidance on it so they would never get hit. It simply doesn't work that way. 1% avoidance does NOT equal 1% of total hits. It equals a 1% chance PER HIT, where each hit is treated as a separate instance not as a lump sum or total, to avoid it. Now, if your sample size is large enough, then it will average out to 1% of total hits, but the sample size has to be large enough, and most boss fights are not the appropriate sample size.


To the OP: Take a look at Aggathons Prot Warrior guide in the Gear and Enchanting discussion thread for common specs/glyphs/rotation. If you are getting into 25-man progression, gear for Effective Health.

[Dreador]

I'm referring to the fact that if Avoidance worked that way, everyone would be walking around with a set of armor that had pure avoidance on it so they would never get hit. It simply doesn't work that way. 1% avoidance does NOT equal 1% of total hits. It equals a 1% chance PER HIT, where each hit is treated as a separate instance not as a lump sum or total, to avoid it. Now, if your sample size is large enough, then it will average out to 1% of total hits, but the sample size has to be large enough, and most boss fights are not the appropriate sample size.


To the OP: Take a look at Aggathons Prot Warrior guide in the Gear and Enchanting discussion thread for common specs/glyphs/rotation. If you are getting into 25-man progression, gear for Effective Health.

Quoted for truth and emphasis. Also, you'd do best to just ignore hit and expertise on gear...your threat stems from your rotation and spec being in order.

[nserafini]

Regem stam on most of those hybrids.

Exp is fine @ 23, remember you can food buff for 40 Exp ( you'll hit 26/27 ) AND if on the offhand you find taunts miss, then glyph for taunt.

On the shield you may want to ( this is for debate ) get the +18 STAM over the plating the block value i think isn't worth it .... thoughts

[Loganisis]

I'm referring to the fact that if Avoidance worked that way, everyone would be walking around with a set of armor that had pure avoidance on it so they would never get hit. It simply doesn't work that way. 1% avoidance does NOT equal 1% of total hits. It equals a 1% chance PER HIT, where each hit is treated as a separate instance not as a lump sum or total, to avoid it. Now, if your sample size is large enough, then it will average out to 1% of total hits, but the sample size has to be large enough, and most boss fights are not the appropriate sample size.

Semantics. I did make an assumption that basic probability is understood, if making assumptions like that is the concern I'll be more specific in the future.

1.5% is 1.5 in 100 for simplicities purpose. RNG means however that you could go 400 cases before you see an avoid because of that 1.5% chance and then see 3 right in a row. RNG/Probabilities doesn't tell you when something is going to happen, just the frequency of that event on average.

Simplifying down to 1.5 in 100 is the method of making it a more digestable, outcome-related format. 1.5 in 100 does nothing more than tell you that, given a normal distribution, you can expect 1.5 misses per 100 swings. As stated above "due to RNG you never know when that will be".

You've been here longer than I have, is it really necessary to state this at the precise micro level (per hit) rather than a more easily digestiable macro level (probable outcome over a more standard time frame) for basic discussions?

@Dreador - I almost posted a remark that would have said "As Dreador says" but I figured you'd be around to post it yourself :-)

[MellvarTank]

You've been here longer than I have, is it really necessary to state this at the precise micro level (per hit) rather than a more easily digestiable macro level (probable outcome over a more standard time frame) for basic discussions?

Yes, yes it is. The problem with simplifying it is that not everyone does have the basic understanding of probability that you assume. They will then take it as an "absolute" and re-state it to others and then we have a bunch of people under the impression that 1% avoidance is 1 out of every 100 hits avoided... which is not the case.

I understand that it may seem that I'm picking hairs, and I don't want to argue semantics... but have a look around at the posts and you'll understand why it is an important distinction. There have been several cases where over-simplification causes huge misunderstanding... and then a whole lot of "I read it on tankspot it's totally true 100% of the time!" pops up and it goes downhill.

[SixStringsXD]

As a prot warrior you want t10 everything except legs. Legs should be pillars of might. Anything that has boosted armor is BiS for ICC, aside from LK, where you want the maximum amount of stam you can possibly get.

Armor neck from fester, armored cloak, armored t10 chest, armored wrists, armored t10 hands, armored belt, armored legs from BSing and the armor rings (Band of the Twins and the one from Dreamwalker) and ardent guard.

People say you get crushed as a warrior, well not when you have over 40k armor raid buffed with 70k hp

[MellvarTank]

armored t10 chest,

Until you can upgrade your t10 chest to 277 iLvL, point for point it isn't as much EH as the Cataclysmic chestguard. However, at iLvL 264, with the 4 piece bonus, it is about on par with the Cataclysmic Chestguard. The same can be said for the Gauntlets. For regular 25/10 ICC, the 4-piece bonus just isn't really necessary if you stack EH via the Cataclysmic Chestguard and the Pillars of Might.

[Crommi]

Just be aware of that you most likely cannot use 4xT10 + Pillars of Might unless you get tanking boots from ICC10/25. With crafted Boots of Kingly Upheaval you probably won't be able to stay above 540 defense and uncrittable.

[Dreador]

Just be aware of that you most likely cannot use 4xT10 + Pillars of Might unless you get tanking boots from ICC10/25. With crafted Boots of Kingly Upheaval you probably won't be able to stay above 540 defense and uncrittable.

Simply not accurate. Plenty of gear combinations to get you through, optimally.

[Galarungi]

Alright well thanks guys. While I do have 3/4 of the t10 pieces mentioned above already and only my hands are sanctified at this point, I think I'm going to stick with the gear that I have for EH purposes. I changed out a majority of my def/stam gems to pure stamina, health went from 44.5k to a little over 45k. Also replaced glyphs of devastate and shockwave with Last Stand and Shield Wall, so we will see how that goes. I appreciate the feedback and hopefully we'll be clearing 10m (11/12) and moving into icc25 for real progression soon.

In terms of running 10-man on hardmode, do you guys think that I'm geared enough for it? Armory link is up at the start of the thread, and it should be updated with my changes. Thanks again guys!