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Thread: ICC Festergut encounter - Prot warrior tanking, help!

  1. #1
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    ICC Festergut encounter - Prot warrior tanking, help!

    So my guild just started up a 10 man ICC raid, I'm the GM and a DK Tank (Soulstorm - Blackhand (US)) and have been leading our raids, my OT is a prot warrior (Tinetti - Blackhand (US)), everything is smooth, we one shot everything up untill Festergut... my prot warrior just can't seem to handle him.

    I tank it first, get up to 9 stacks easy, and have him taunt off, he's already got hots and heals on him as he taunts off, but he takes huge damage, and face plants after one or two stacks... I can usually figure out our problems and correct them fast but this one has me stumped. Why is he going down so fast? He's got 5k+ GS, he's def capped, has a decent tank spec... I'm at a loss, anyone else have this problem? or know what's wrong? Ideas? Im desperate.

  2. #2
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    Could you post his armory page? It would def help a lot to see his gear/enchants/gems/spec. Usually the problem is bad management of CD's. Make sure he pops shield wall at the 3rd inhale, and as it is about to fall off, have him pop Last stand. Also, are you utilizing out side CD's? Like guardian spirit, and make sure ALL healers are focusing on him. Finally, give him an indestructable potion, as he taunts off have him use it. 3rd inhale Festergut hits HARD, it is a necessity that cool downs be managed properly.

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  4. #4
    As posted above, make sure he blow's cd's on third inhale. Have you tried swapping roles, where he tanks first to 9 stacks and then you taunt off him ?

    Get healers to pop cooldowns, if you have a pally healer, make sure he has sacred shield on him, pop wings and 2 piece T10 bonus for extra heals during that period. (and whatever other healers do)

    he seems fine to tank it(although armor seems abit low with an armor trinket, and why is he stacking so much expertise?), might be a healing problem.

  5. #5
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    I'll just list the things I noticed on his armory.

    Gems:
    He really needs to have 30 stam gems in every socket except maybe the helm and one purple stam hybrid for his meta. Even still, the helm one is probably better used as a hybrid other than hit since he has so much of it.

    Enchants:
    Ok these are all screwed up. For best EH (Effective Health) you should be enchanting the shoulders with the pvp enchant (30stam/15resil), the cloak with 225 armor, the bracers with 40 stam, the weapon with Blood Draining, the Shield....CAN be ok so I'll leave it, gloves should be either the Armor kit or stam kit from LWers.

    Spec:
    Not terrible, but a couple changes I would recommend here, especially for Festergut. I'd say take 2 points out of shield spec and put them into imp disciplines. Then replace the glyph of sunder with glyph of shield wall for 2 minute shield wall cd's. It can be pretty nice to have twice per fight. Glyph of taunt is one of those glyphs I swap out on a per fight basis, if fast switching isn't required on a certain fight I'd recommend a different choice.

    Gear:
    Not that bad, a little low lvl and could use a better shield like the one that drops in Normal HoR, but nothing that would stop you from killing a 10man boss. Pillars of Might should also be something he definitely aims to get in the near future as its a craftable BiS item.

    That's the quick dirty version. Hope you find it helpful.

  6. #6
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    Yea he's WAY above the Expertise cap and his spec isn't the problem. He is difinently is geared enough to tank ICC 10. It seems like a CD or healer problem. As stated above get healers to pop CD's also. And make sure He is popping Shield wall on the 3rd inhale (and an indestructible potion would do wonders) and as the 12 secs on Shield wall is about to fall off, he casts last stand. Other than that I would recommend changing those expertise gems into stam gems. There is no point in having 40 expertise, even as DPS. It is just a waste of a gem slot. Most of the bosses don't even parry haste anymore, Expertise is purely threat now.

    Also as Tox posted, try swapping roles, it might help.

    Edit: He's enchanting expetise too??? Why? that is absolutely pointless. He is missing the +40 Stam to bracers b/c he has plus 15 expertise. He is also missing armor or stam to hands becaue he has expertise. That needs to be fixed.

  7. #7
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    Wow, I honestly hadn't noticed his gems/enchants before, suprisingly, however I don't think thats the issue, I'll make sure to coordinate CD usage from healers and try having him take it first, hopefully I can survive the 3rd inhale easier, having almost 1k gear on him. Hopefully that will do it. I don't think healing is a factor either, have a pally and a shaman both doing 7k hps and a priest on raid heals for about 5k hps. He just goes down so fast we can't keep him up, I checked the logs and when the inhale goes out he gets hit for like 20k twice in quick succession. Hopefully better CD usage and a change in taunt order will help that.

  8. #8
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    Yes but as advised he does need to sort out his gems/enchants if he wants to progress as a tank I mean 40 expertise is pointless!!!!!! Stam is king is icc it's been said 1000's times on tankspot so tell him to spend a bit of gold and gem stam and change enchants out.
    Also u should swap out on 8 stacks not 9 to give u a small window if he misses or you don't drop off top of aggro list before another stack goes on.
    So long and thanks for all this fish

  9. #9
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    His gear isn't way off and imp. disc wouldn't help him too much in that fight, so meh.

    You have another problem. He needs to use his CDs and your healers need to coordinate theirs. It's also a good idea to drink an indestructible potion.
    Although it isn't obvious when you look at the figures, a couple of thousand extra armor can make all the difference.

    The tank who taunts is at a survivability disadvantage. For instance, if you have a priest healer, then the current tank will have most likely Inspiration on him. The tank who taunts propably doesn't since it proccs off crit heals. All those passive effects are mising on the taunting tank which gives the wrong impression of a "paper tank". So in the warriors case it is a very good idea to pop shield block or last stand before taunting. Shield Wall is to be saved for when it is really needed.

    IMHO it's more a healer/active mitigation problem. A simple tank and spank fight this ain't.
    Last edited by Mačl; 05-10-2010 at 06:35 AM.

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    It's already been stated, but the healing swap isn't so simple as starting to heal the second tank on the swap. Healing proc'ed buffs are likely not present and there is just a rythm or flow to this kind of focused healing. Swapping causes some disruption in timings, etc. Swapping at 8 stacks has two benefits as mentioned above. One, it gives some room for error so that a tank doesn't explode on a failed taunt. Additionally, this will cause the swap at about the same time as the second enhale. This gives the healers time to re-establish their "rythm" before taking the third inhale beating. The taunting tank also has to trust the healers through the second inhale. I have had swaps go badly and want to pop a cd as an instinct reaction. You can't do that on this fight. You need the cds on third inhale. Plan his cds, plus external ones if necessary to cover the full 30 seconds of the third inhale.

  11. #11
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    Communication is important, as are healer assignments. I always have one tank who is "my" tank, my priority. When they're about to switch, I will ES, Riptide, and start healing him a little early to make sure he doesn't get owned right away. He always call out on vent (...and he happens to sit two feet away from me) "popping shield wall... and taunting" and then announces when shield wall is running out ("3...2...1... shield wall is off"). It helps. We just pour mana into him as quickly as possible.

  12. #12
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    hmm, I have the same problems your Warrior has. Festergut is cleaning the floor with my face. Every time I tanked him, he nuked me off. We only killed him because the pala MT bubbled himself as I tanked and taunt him after my death.

    http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...he&cn=Barangar

    this is my Char. I have 60 Frostbadges and need advice. I don't know what to buy, T10 Hands, Tank-Trinket or save up to 95?


    thx for help

    (and sorry for my bad english, I read more than I write)

  13. #13
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    It's a CD problem. When I first started tanking Festergut, I wasn't too aware of the 3rd inhale damage. It's massive. He needs to pop either Shield Wall or Last Stand during the third inhale.

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    [QUOTE=Barangar;412779]
    this is my Char. I have 60 Frostbadges and need advice. I don't know what to buy, T10 Hands, Tank-Trinket or save up to 95?
    QUOTE]

    Get the skeleton key. The hands will drop from voa. That CD is also very nice for the 3rd inhale that we're talking about. Also, can't really beat +220 stamina

  15. #15
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    Couple of things: Your tank picks him up mid-way through the second inhale - don't burn a cooldown. He will take substantial damage, healers just have to heal him. Third inhale - chain cooldowns. I usually go shield block, (then when it is almost out) shield wall, (then when that is almost out) Last Stand and Trinkets. Exhale: you are fine if the healers are up to it. Bottom line: Huge physical damage on the tanks, he should have a minimum of 30K armor unbuffed before taking the third inhale.

    Expertise soft cap: 26. Gear EH, not threat.
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  16. #16
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    A 5 second count down on vent before the taunt would probably do wonders. In fact announcing any time tanks switch or any fight will make things go a lot smoother generally.

    Last stand, shield wall, LOH and guardian spirit are certainly more than enough to get almost any tank through the 3rd inhale. Your healers might be able to produce over 20K hps but remeber botht hat healing and the damage is very bursty.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galarungi View Post
    It's a CD problem. When I first started tanking Festergut, I wasn't too aware of the 3rd inhale damage. It's massive. He needs to pop either Shield Wall or Last Stand during the third inhale.
    Shield Wall followed by Last Stand will cover the whole 3rd inhale duration with two seconds to spare. As for Indestructible potions, first tank pops one on pull and then each tank take one every time they taunt.

    Barangar, you're really lacking armor and that might be why you appear so squishy. Sure, Skeleton Key looks great but you're talking about pure stamina when your mitigation is really lacking. Consider spending some emblems on new gloves (Kraken for 10man raider, T10 for 25man raider) and gold on crafted leggings-of-awesome, Pillars of Might.
    Last edited by Crommi; 05-12-2010 at 04:50 PM.
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  18. #18
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    Had this issue in my raid tonight.
    My OT a warrior that was dying, we swapped it out to where he was on the boss first, with me tanking for the 2nd and 3rd inhales. We nailed it after that slight adjustment.

  19. #19
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    The warrior who's armory you linked has some MAJOR problems with his gear. Why on earth is he gemming for hit when he has 360 rating (100 above the cap)? Also, he's gemming 20expertise gems and missing out on socket bonuses because of it. That's a bad idea when you're already undergeared for fights like festergut. He should swap ALL gems to stamina except the 1 purple gem required for the meta (tell him to use purple, not red). Also, have him do everything in his power to go for a new shield. There are TONS of shield options right now, and he's using the basic entry-lv crafted shield. Shield is important because his armor is pretty low. Also, tell him to drop the onyxia trinket for the the glyph of indomitability (50 triumph badges) and drop the brewfest trinket for the black heart (normal toc 5man off black knight). If his dying is the only thing preventing you from a kill on festergut, you should have him min/max a bit more and maybe lose the 2% threat glove enchant for 240 armor. His weapon enchant should also be changed to blood draining and cape enchant should be changed to 225 armor. If he has the badges, his next gear upgrade should probably be the tanking belt (yes, the belt over the trinket).

    The changes I listed above will make a huge difference in his survivability, and I'm pretty sure this is the best possible way to go about fixing this.

    Other than the gear changes, just make sure he's using his cooldowns at the right times and calling for external ones if/when needed. Also, make sure he's drinking 1 indestructible potion 1sec before entering combat and drinking another one when that wears off (but if he's not currently tanking when it wears off, he should hold off on drinking it until he's about to taunt).

    Good luck.
    Last edited by Dragaan; 05-15-2010 at 09:22 PM.

  20. #20
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    Festergut 3rd Inhale is what kills tanks.

    Tank Rotation and CD's:
    During the 3rd Inhale the current tank must chain cool downs (personal or external) for the entire duration, or they will die. The damage is just to great.

    Tank 1 - Pulls, holds the boss for 9 stacks
    Tank 2- Taunts as soon as Tank 1 gets 9 stacks. If Tank 1 hits 10 stacks its an instant raid wipe.
    Tank 2- Waits for Festergut to cast his 3rd Inhale (this happens shortly after the tank swap). When the 3rd Inhale has 2 seconds left to finish on its cast, I hit Last Stand and Enrage Regeneration. 2 seconds before Last Stands ends I hit Shield Wall.

    **I am not sure what the other classes abilities are called, I am assuming we all have similar ones. If needed an external CD can be used such as Pain Suppression or Guardian Spirit. If you mess up the timing you can also use a trinket or 2 at the end to ride out the rest of the 3rd Inhale.

    By the time Tank 2 reaches 7-8 stacks Festergut should be dead (even given new groups due to the increasing ICC Buff). However if hes not have Tank 1 taunt when Tank 2 reaches 9 stacks and finish him off.

    Healers:
    Since the DPS check on 10 man is much lighter, it is recommended to use 3 healers to make the fight easier.

    0 Inhale(start) -At the start 1 healer is on the tank and 2 are on the raid (due to the gas damage from the room being full at the start).
    1st Inhale - Same as above.
    2nd Inhale - After his second Inhale 2 healers should be on the tank and 1 on the raid (as the raid damage is lighter with less gas in the room).
    3rd Inhale - At his 3rd Inhale all healers should be on the current tank (as all gas is cleared from the room and no one should be taking damage, aside from the one vial gas target at ranged, have one healer pop a few heals or hots on them).
    There is something so appealing about backhanding someone across the face with a shield.

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