When Should a Warrior Switch to Fury?

[Buuchez]

Ok, First of all, Love the site, this is the First post ive ever made, usually just use you guys as a reference.
And forgive the "less than leet-ness" of this question

My buddies and I mainly raid 10 mans, so for this decision i need to disregard the gear attainable from 25 mans since theres no guarantees on high rolls for loot.

So the Real debate is I was thinking about giving my Battered Hilt to my warrior buddy

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...aron&cn=Skylla

"She" deserves it and would put it too good use, also I was under the impression that it would last her for a while since when she inevitably gets a better weapon, or another 251, she can just dual weild it. However this has led us to do some work in rawr and with the spread sheet.

So the Question is:
At what point in a warriors perfomance is it worth it to go Fury, It seems no matter what we do, we see arms as higher dps, when u disregard things like movements, and immunity periods which cost re-debuffing globals.

Is it a Question of when AP hits X? or when your gear brings you well over hit cap? Or is it just a matter of progression guilds not needing 2 arms warriors in a raid even if they are both amazing? Is it that dead dps = 0 dps and u get threat reduction?

Any help or theories would be very appreciated. Id hate to give my hilt to to someone that will replace
it with a single 251 weapon, Should i just give it to someone else?

[Skyborn]

That PVP weapon is terrible for PVE so the hilt would be a huge upgrade for her as Arms and if she ends up coming into a 264 weapon or one of the ICC10 man weapons she could go Fury.

It mostly comes down to which playstyle is more fun for her and what buffs the guild needs. The buffs Fury warriors bring are also provided by Ferals and the buffs Arms warriors bring are also provided by certain Rogues (IIRC).

That being said, please tell your friend to get to the 263 Arms hit cap.

As far as whether or not the battered hilt should go to someone else... that's up to you. But random loot is random and she may or may not find something that would replace it soon. It certainly will last until she gets 2 ICC 25 weapons.

[Buuchez]

That PVP weapon is terrible for PVE so the hilt would be a huge upgrade for her as Arms and if she ends up coming into a 264 weapon or one of the ICC10 man weapons she could go Fury.

Well thats exactly the debate, it would be a sweet upgrade, but she would have to ditch it as soon as she found a better weap or sac dps to go fury just for sake of continued use of it. She would be better off staying arms and just using the better weapon?

I am a feral tank, so there is no real use in her going fury just for raid synergy.
I see a lot of greatly geared/great dps fury warriors and im curious if its a conscious decision at a certain gear level or if its just a play style preference. But as far as overall performance goes, and when i use progression guilds as a template i cant imagine personal preference out weighs improved dps.

Thank you for the quick reply, but I am still unsure if theres a point where she can do more dps as fury?

[MellvarTank]

That used to be the case, but isn't anymore. Given equal skill and gear, both perform equally well within the margin of human error.

[The Hoof]

That used to be the case, but isn't anymore. Given equal skill and gear, both perform equally well within the margin of human error.

Really? I thought that Fury still had a pretty noticable edge on DPS given equal gear.

[MellvarTank]

I could see it having an edge on multi-target encounters, but for single-target not so much as far as I know.

[Skylla]

Hey guys, this is Skylla... thank you for the replies so far.
The issue I am running into is that when I am using RAWR for a given default boss, arms is FAR superior than fury in my gear. Like close to a 700 dps unbuffed, to 500 dps buffed difference. When switching the boss to an encounter such as Marrowgar the difference drops a bit, but still is in favor of arms.

[Skylla]

As for the hit rating, once again running into the issue where Rawr is claiming a DROP in DPS if I were to swap a gem to hit.

[MellvarTank]

This is why I don't use Rawr, as it cannot possibly calculate player skill, and only tells you what you want it to. Unless you are running 232/226 gear going into ICC10, I call BS on that. The only reason for that disparity would be the fact that the player would go from being expertise cap to not capped swtiching from Arms (expertise spec'd) to Fury (hit spec'd).

I would think that you have RAWR set up wrong.

[Skylla]

I have been using rawr for some time, across multiple different characters and classes, I am pretty sure I am using it correctly. The biggest issue I am seeing in it actually has to do with its given DPS values for its 'default' boss, and on its specific encounter bosses, such as marrowgar or saurfang. Using the modeling for marrowgar, fury comes out ahead due to the movement factors but on saurfang, arms comes out ahead due to being able to stand still. It is 6 and half dozen of the other, and is more a which is better on each encounter. What im seeing is fury pulling ahead by 100-200 dps on marrowgar, but falling behind 700+ dps on saurfang. At this point it becomes what encounters do we need the most help on, and is it worth lowering dps on the other encounters for it?

[Skyborn]

Well, look at the deeper fights in ICC. After the first wing Festergut and Blood Queen are the only fights w/o serious movement... so it seems like Fury would be a better choice on progression fights in ICC.

Personally, I was Arms all through Ulduar because the best weapon I could get my hands on was a Polearm. I made the switch to Fury in TOC and I didn't look back... I think I made that choice because I finally got 2 decent 2 handers and I was lacking hit-gear and had lots of expertise so I just swapped specs... kind of like where you're at now.

I think Fury has a lot going for it in that the DPS is very snappy. With arms you have to get rend up and wait for the procs to start rolling before you see good DPS, while with Fury after your first crit you're already moving at 100%. I just like the playstyle better, and on movement fights I really don't notice a drop in DPS. There are also lots of fights where cleave / WW spam is just amazing.

Why don't you try modeling with your current set up w/ Quel'delar. Then do it with Bryntroll (which is likely the first upgrade you'll see). Then compare that to Fury w/ Bryntroll mainhand and Quel'delar offhand.

[Destruyen]

the thing about the battered hilt is that there are only swords and maces for the reward. axe is the clear winner when it comes to arms dps because of the extra crit and crit damage. if you are not yet at the arp hard cap then maces can be a suitable option. sword spec just plain sucks when comparing same ilvl weapons. the agility sword however is best in slot outside of icc for fury warriors.

my opinion is, if you can't get at least the 245 dual blade butcher/justice whatever from toc25 then the mace from the battered hilt would be a good upgrade for arms. this will let you only have to get 75% arp on your character sheet to be arp hard capped as arms.

the whole fury vs. arms thing is mostly personal preference. in just icc 25 regular best in slot gear, the difference in dps is only ~500 dps given perfect rotation/cd usage. however high ping/latency, human error, rotation issues can make the gap bigger or smaller when it comes to the two specs. i switched from fury in naxx to arms when ulduar was released since arms finally got fixed that patch and played the spec until 3 months ago when i switched back to fury. i switched because i would get low frame rates/high latency in icc so fury became a better dps spec to play due to lower reliance on gcd.

[Buuchez]

Thanks for the info guys.

Oddly enough "she" got an OxHeart (251) last night and our Lock got a sword too. So ill be using it for myself most likely.