Prot Pally threat problems

[mikemill123]

I have just started tanking for my guild with my pally. But have had some threat issues. In voa the other night has a mage doing around 13k dps no matter what I did could not get back on top of the threat meter (until the mage died from pulling boss). Im running the 969 roation. Tried watching tps using omen on heroic bosses and i tend to stick around 5-7k tps. I am hit capped and just expertise cap. here is my arm. http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...ht&cn=Draevinn

any suggestions would be helpful.

[Tinytankz]

As long as you are using every GCD you shuoldnt run into to many problems. I have to ask if you read the 969 from maintankadin or heard it explained over ventrilo from a half asleep drunk pally friend ( this is where i heard it first and lemme tell you maintankadin does a much better job) I know that sometimes it really is DPS's fault not the tanks but i think this case there are some empty global CD's. Also because you sain any suggestions

Enchants-
Boots-tuskars vitality
Chest 275hp
cloak 275 armor
shoulders pvp 30-stam enchant

Trinket
Glyph of indomitability or black heart. Either is better thna onxyia's trinket keep onys though it has fantastic amounts of avoidance for suarfang.

Head.
the vendor 245 helm is a muhc better option for you the second helm is good for an block cap set but, the 245 has more to offer you right now (as it shuold it has more item budget)

Quick somone who tanks as a pally talk to him i am a warrior we only have sheilds in common i can only use that as an IceBreaker

[Freiin]

I had a similar problem in VoA with a warlock. I was doing my 969 rotation, using my cool-downs etc... This guy was more interested in topping the dps chart then living trough the encounter. I threw him a Righteous Defense which put me back on top but it was a close one. Anyway, you will see players like him from time to time so get used to it. If you are doing your rotation correctly and pop all your oh crap moves and a dps still wants to be the tank then by all means let him get one-shotted. Just be ready to pick up the boss after said dps is dead.

[Miraii]

Tinytankz covered pretty much all I had to say regarding your armory link.
As for the tanking itself, don't forget to throw your Hand of Salvation on the top DPS on the threat metre.
Gonna give you some time to continue your rotation and get ahead of that particular DPS.

But, also as mentioned before, Some DPS just look at their DPS metre and only aim for being on top. Doesn't matter if that mage were doing 30k DPS if he doesn't control his own aggro he deserved to die.

But just remember, throw a Hand of Salvation, if you're in a fight where there is only one DPS that keeps close to you on the threat metre it's even better, by the time that particular DPS has caught up again just throw it again and include that DPS in your rotation.

[sifuedition]

just started tanking

Don't beat yourself up too much if this is the case. There is a "muscle-memory" kind of learning curve involved here. Make sure you are using the correct 969 as mentioned before. Make sure Righteous Fury is on, which it likely was given that this mage was your only problem you mentioned. Remember you have two taunts. Also, don't forget you can Hand of Salvation someone who is doing crazy threat. Using hands and other abilities gets easier the more comfortable you are with your rotation which is where the muscle-memory I mentioned comes in. It is even harder when you are new to it as you are furiously mashing your buttons as it is to push your threat as high as you can.

Also remember, it is your job to put out as much threat as you can and to know how to maximize your threat. Beyond that, it is the dps'ers job to manage their individual threat.

What is the rotation you were using? That would help us more than anything in spotting a threat problem.

[mikemill123]

My roation is as follows:

opening with avenging wrath and avengers shield

conc. - hor - jow - sor - hs

then alternating between what is off cool down switch back and forth between the nine and six second cool downs. I did have rightous fury up.

I think part of the problem is that the off tank was serverly undergeared also. the mage just under me fight the frost boss on the threat meter. by the time ot had four stacks on him he had lost threat i taunt the boss on me to save the mage from death. he fails to chill his roation at all. i frantic a little i loose threat again. but at this point im a little annoyed cause hes been calling me garabe the whole run. so I wait for him to die then taunt the boss back.

also running seal of vengance.

[sifuedition]

You mentioned using Avenging Wrath. Unless you know that there is NO way you will need Divine Protection in the first 30 seconds of the fight, I would carefully consider using Avenging Wrath to start. If you are confident in your healers or that you overgear the encounter, this can be a nice way to burst an initial threat lead.

I don't really see an issue with your rotation over time. We should be the same if we are in the same gear as it is functional. If you are in a group where threat matters, I would consider switching it around however.

Consecration is threat over time but no burst. It takes at least three seconds to tick on the target. I would have done it this way:

Sacred Shield before moving. AS as soon as it lights up, HS as I close with the boss but still out of melee range, which is my first nine, then:
HotR, Judge, SotR, Consc.
Repeat starting with HS.

The reason for this is more direct strikes early in the rotation. For a boss, you only need to worry about the one target and this should build your initial threat faster but average out over time to the same as any other 969.

For trash, where you need more AoE, you might switch your consc and judgement or something to that effect depending on if you have SoC.

[Davih]

i disagree tinytankz said about boot enchant, keep 22 Stamina on boots and take 2 points out of benediction and put it in pursuit of justice (bigger run speed increase)
Your Weapon isnt doing you any favors when it comes to threat because it has no stat to increase threat other than the proc from mongoose.
keep Sticking to your 969 using every GCD and if your up for it sometimes replace consecrate with AS, HW or HoW. As every1 said Salv as much as possible on highest dps on threat. Also use Avenging Wrath as much as possible where u dont think you will need to use Divine protection in the next 30 seconds.
Also replace glyph of hammer of the righteous with glyph of judgement

[mikemill123]

hand of salv is defentaly something i need to work on using. seriously though ive tanked a few times and usually my brain all over the place trying to tank well. It really is a very demanding job. I havent had raid frames pulled out. So i had no way to hand of salv the pesky mage. Leason learned tho. My only other comment is I fail to see why run speed is that important. I do have the black heart trinket. I somehow thought that being at the 102.4 avoidance with holy shield up would be more benifcal to me then the extra stamina.

[mikemill123]

I changed out the cloak enchant for the 225 arm, changed the chest enchant for 275 health, changed out the shoulder enchant for the pvp cloak. really the only thing that remains unresolved is the either talents into run speed or boot enchant into run speed. like i said above is run speed really important or is just about being able to get to something quicker?

[Toxicacid]

You shouldnt need to hand of salvation the mage, or anyone for that matter. Tell them to download omen and learn to play. DPS should back off if they see they are getting close to the tanks threat. And shouldn't the mage have been on orbs instead of the boss the whole time?

As for your gear, looks good, obviously upgrade the belt to the frost badge belt and try to get the black heart instead of the ony trinket.

[Tinytankz]

like i said above is run speed really important or is just about being able to get to something quicker?

Fire you ought not to be in it, so moving out of it faster means less ticks over a whole raid it can be 2 times your hp worth of damage not taken just depends on the raid.

Also normally a healer thing but i use Grid instead of say the raid frames of x-perl or pitbull. I can pop a vigilance on them without breaking target. Also i can see who else is being hit hehe.

[Vindicatar]

Just one thing, I saw a few people mention popping your wings at the start. I would advise not to do this IF you have a rogue in raid tricksing you on the pull. The damage buff from tricks is 15%, whereas the buff from wings is 20%. You will clip the tricks dps gain mechanic( the threat transfer still comes through for the duration though) and can gimp your initial threat by a little bit (every little bit helps on the pull). Also, by using your wings after the TotT has faded, you should be at 5 stacks of corruption thus maximising the dps output of ur seal damage for the duration of wings.

TL;DR pop wings 12-15 secs into the fight

[Vindicatar]

@ run speed increase

There is actually a thread over at EJs somewhere (just woke up and too tired atm to sift through posts to find it) that shows the theory and maths behind a run speed increase enchant/talents. Basically if you have to move for more than ~16secs in a given fight, a run speed increase will net you a dps gain.

As for tanking, run speed will get you to adds faster, keep u ahead of dps and allow you to move out of the bad stuff faster, which is always good considering u are taking the brunt of the damage to start with.

[mikemill123]

found the thread on ej on run speed. Makes sense. Thanks for all the advice and suggestions all. Ive already noticed a tps increase but making sure im in not missing gcd. I swaped on the ony trinket for the black heart the hp increase is always nice. My main is a restro druid. So i do have grid just disabled while tanking. Ive started tanking with grid its a nice tool to have when tanking alows me to see what kind of damage going out also helps with hand of reckoning.

[Reign]

i also recommend another add-on to go with grid, called "Clique" it to is a healing add-on but its really nice to macro HoS and RD to it, so you can keep your target on the boss at all times. sometimes its the little things like that, that may help you use every gcd possible.