Why We Do What We Do (An in depth explanation of EHP and ICC 3.3.3 tanking mechanics)

[Andenthal]

This is why tanks that used to gear for EH were called mana sponges. They would just soak damage and heals. It used to be bad, but in ICC it is the way to go.

The only time I can remember someone using the term 'sponge' in TBC was refering to Druids. And it technically had more to do with the inability to remove crushing blows than their EH. (and didn't they actually have higher avoidance AND higher EH than shield tanks?)

[Scotteq]

The only time I can remember someone using the term 'sponge' in TBC was refering to Druids. And it technically had more to do with the inability to remove crushing blows than their EH. (and didn't they actually have higher avoidance AND higher EH than shield tanks?)

/agreed


The whole "mana Sponge" deal was centered around Druids.

[Satorri]

(Being a healer...) I saw more than just Druids who had that spongey problem, it was easy to append to Bears because they got a nice margin more health and had no way to avoid crushing blows, but it was not Bears alone.

[Edgewalker]

If TBC gearing had more options we would have seen a larger variety of sets. As it was you couldn't get enough extra armor / stamina to survive additional combinations of MH / OH worst case Brut hits, so avoidance really came into it's own in that little micro tank experiment boss.

I never heard of mana sponge outside of druids, and really if someone was using that phrase for the baseline warrior tank the warrior tank was probably terrible / taking crushes / gearing poorly. Druids really got a bad rap for the sponge thing too, they were really superior tanks for crushing removed fights, fights with stuns where shield block didn't work (sup twins), or fights where there was no gimmick involved to keep warriors happy. Luckily the only ridiculous gimmick they have added in WoTLK is heroic Anub'arak.

[Tadamitsu]

So when are we going to start over with this math for the 4.0.1 stuff.
Also they removed the ICC 20% avoidance debuff.

[MellvarTank]

So when are we going to start over with this math for the 4.0.1 stuff.
Also they removed the ICC 20% avoidance debuff.

When Cataclysm comes out and we start raiding that content with all of the other changes in place.

The removal of the debuff hasn't changed anything. We are easier to heal over the course of a night, but that is about it. Other than that, you still stack EH. Remember: They removed Defense rating, so unhittable isn't really possible anymore. We can get close, but not quite there.

Also, EH is gearing for the worst case scenario, which means you get hit full on. Ie: The dodge debuff STILL doesn't mean anything.

[Aggathon]

The math is closer to that equilibrium point, but I have to agree, with the removal of defense and even with the ICC buff removed, we're still looking at ~ 45-50% avoidance (as opposed to the 40-45% range as previous). If I do a revisit of this with 4.x mechanics it will not be until well after cata is released. If someone else wants to then be my guest, lol.

[Bovinity]

Classic thread is classic.

[Aggathon]

I hate you bov.

[Krenian]

Looking at this, it hasn't been looked at since ICC and even if the information is still 'useful', it doesn't need to be stickied. I'm going to post once to keep this on top of the page but until this gets updated, I'll unsticky it. Hasn't been posted in for over a year.

[Aggathon]

That's fine with me, especially with the "active" tanking in MoP, I doubt this will be wholly relevant ever again.

[kopcap]

MoP is ages away. This stuff is more relevant in 4.3 that in was in any previous Cata patches.