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Thread: The emperor has no clothes, or why Deep Wounds prot is awful

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    The emperor has no clothes, or why Deep Wounds prot is awful

    It usually seems the case that when crowds tend to make a decision, there is wisdom. Take things such as wearing seat belts or driving on the correct side of the road. Clear cut cases. In some cases, however, I take issue with the wisdom of crowds. A popular example is eating Hormel's "SPAM" or perhaps listening to Lady Gaga. Sorry, I've got issues with both. I suppose it could boil down to personal preference, which is probably how I feel about deep wounds prot.

    Deep wounds prot is much-flouted as a threat build. I've found the opposite to be true. The irony of protection warriors selecting a spec which relies on crits to proc a damage over time effect while at the same time reducing your crit by 5% has not been lost on me. Yes I'm aware that incite does a lot for crit on some specials, but 5% crit is a lot. Still, I figured, there must be something to it, so I tried out the spec for a few days. Short story: I was underwhelmed.

    First of all, you're going to be rocking extremely low crit with this build, regardless of your gear (assuming it's tank gear). This makes the deep wounds proc, well, a rare occurrence. I never once exceeded 7% of my damage as deep wounds while in this spec, usually hovering around 3-6%. Really? for 15 points in Arms? Yeah, that's all I saw. And that's with reasonable gear, nothing special, but pretty solid.

    What I didn't expect, though, was the loss of several key prot skills. Yep, you've gotta give up some of them, you can't have em all. The end result is you either give up some of your threat skills or some of your avoidance or mitigation skills to get that many points in arms. Plus you lose the all important 5% crit of cruelty. I went in expecting to be a aggro monster and was rage starved and impotent for the first time in WotLK.

    I suppose that's why we have personal choice, but it really is baffling to me how others can run with this build. I'll be sticking with my old standby, 5/10/56. It just works better. That's been my experience anyway, and I thought I'd share it. Has anybody else had a similar experience of being disappointed with the deep wounds spec?

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    No.

  3. #3
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    Do you have any analysis besides "I feel it's not as good"?
    Got a question? Try here: Evil Empire Guides and here: Tankspot Guides and Articles Library first!

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    Funny thing is, Deep Wounds might be 3-6%, Cruelty at MOST is 5%, and that's assuming you have 0% crit anyway.
    Not to mention that Impale is also part of the DW build.
    But even when you keep Impale 3-6% for 3 talent points is yet again something Cruelty can never reach.
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  5. #5
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    I don't think it's a matter of oppinion anymore at this stage. There has been so much number crunching on the threat o each that it's pretty safe to say deep wounds s just a better threat build then crulety. It's not ourt survivability spec, that much was right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tpain View Post

    What I didn't expect, though, was the loss of several key prot skills. Yep, you've gotta give up some of them, you can't have em all. The end result is you either give up some of your threat skills or some of your avoidance or mitigation skills to get that many points in arms. Plus you lose the all important 5% crit of cruelty. I went in expecting to be a aggro monster and was rage starved
    Id like to know exactly what "key" prot skills your missing out on? Also if your rage starved its likely due to improper ability usage, not the spec. Using heroic strike too much, or macro'd to Dev?
    There is something so appealing about backhanding someone across the face with a shield.

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    So 6% of your damage off of 3 talent points is a bad thing? i mean is there another talent (save talent abilities like devastate) that ramp your DPS up 6%? I know part of the enticement is threat while i run as well. Darn gotta move out of fire pop a rend on and i now have 2 bleeds rolling while i reposition. Then again i am a filthy key turner soooo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodasafa View Post
    Id like to know exactly what "key" prot skills your missing out on? Also if your rage starved its likely due to improper ability usage, not the spec. Using heroic strike too much, or macro'd to Dev?
    Well, focused rage was the big prot skill I sacrificed to get Deep Wounds, and without it I wasn't able to even thunderclap and shockwave on cooldown, let alone cleave spam and revenge (now godly) on cooldown. Some people even drop some points in shield mastery for DW, or skip imp revenge or vig.

    I don't have heroic strike or cleave macro'd to dev, just in my few days of running with the spec didn't have the rage to use my abilities when I needed to, at least in heroics. I imagine it would be less of an issue in raids.

    The point of the post was to draw attention to a qualitative outcome I experienced, not to debunk some number crunching some guy with a calculator did in his lab.

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    You are rage starved in heroics because they were designed to be run pre-raid. When you are in ToC gear, you are rage starved in heroics, then you get ICC geared, and have to start removing pieces of gear.

    Currently, in ICC gear, a tank and healer could 2-man any heroic save ICC 5 mans, and possibly TotC 5 man.

    It has nothing to do with the spec, and as a side note: There is currently an argument against focussed rage, and those that drop points in shield mastery usually put them into focussed rage (hence the debate). Revenge/Vig were dropped pre-buff, but have now been picked up again due to the increased damage revenge puts out. Who are these "some people"? Did they maybe stop playing before the last patch?
    RNGesus - Saving you unreliably since BC.
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    Troll.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MellvarTank View Post
    Currently, in ICC gear, a tank and healer could 2-man any heroic save ICC 5 mans, and possibly TotC 5 man.

    *cough* there is a DK that has soloed the first 2 heroic ICC 5 mans

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    *cough* shut up Vol! ..Make me jealous of some heroic-geared-out DK..*cough*

    RNGesus - Saving you unreliably since BC.
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    So you basically want an opinion poll, nothing based on facts. Correct?
    Then my original post still stands. No, I have never been disappointed in the DW build. It's better single target threat, better AOE threat. And the only time I've never spec'ed out of it since BC was on specific fights where I wanted to have a specific skill for that fight. Like I am right now as the Lich King intervene tank, to apply Safeguard to the main tank.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nez View Post
    So you basically want an opinion poll, nothing based on facts. Correct?
    Then my original post still stands. No, I have never been disappointed in the DW build. It's better single target threat, better AOE threat. And the only time I've never spec'ed out of it since BC was on specific fights where I wanted to have a specific skill for that fight. Like I am right now as the Lich King intervene tank, to apply Safeguard to the main tank.
    Actually, you need to be a little bit careful about confusing data with truth. Keep in mind the thread is about qualitative outcomes here. And thanks for your answer, by the way.

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    Since the OP wants unfunded opinions, I'm gonna chip in.

    I think deep wounds is an especially good talent. I base this on the fact that it shares an abbreviation with dual wield and dragon pig. I do not, I repeat not base this on lengthy discussions by experienced tanks and skilled number crunches.
    I also think it's well worth the 15 points you put in arms - I even make sure to put fifteen points in arms beyond the five that every tank already puts in it. That, and fifteen is 1 and 5. 1+5=6, and since 6=2x3, it is linked to 23.
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    ummm... Dragon Pig would be DP... good, but not the same letters and DW >.>

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trogdorrior View Post
    ummm... Dragon Pig would be DP... good, but not the same letters and DW >.>
    You fell for my trap!
    I am, of course, talking about the fabled Dragonpig Warriors!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kahmal
    ...there is no true progression for a casual anymore, just hand outs.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martie View Post
    Since the OP wants unfunded opinions, I'm gonna chip in.

    I think deep wounds is an especially good talent. I base this on the fact that it shares an abbreviation with dual wield and dragon pig. I do not, I repeat not base this on lengthy discussions by experienced tanks and skilled number crunches.
    I also think it's well worth the 15 points you put in arms - I even make sure to put fifteen points in arms beyond the five that every tank already puts in it. That, and fifteen is 1 and 5. 1+5=6, and since 6=2x3, it is linked to 23.
    Hello straw man argument.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreador View Post
    Troll.
    Ad hominem.

  20. #20
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    Enough.

    If you want to reopen this subject with some rational evidence to back your claims, feel free to do so. "Deep Wounds prot is terrible" based on purely qualitative measures can be debated on the WoW forums all day long.
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