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Thread: warrior threat and Heroics

  1. #1
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    warrior threat and Heroics

    I notice that all the tanking info here is all raid based, and while that is what this site is based on noone seems interested in posting about heriocs. I'm new to warrior tanking but I've done Druid and Paladin since early BC, and various specs of DK tanking, so I'm not really new to tanking as a whole. My question though really boils down to Warriors and AE tanking, mostly in regards to HHoR. I went there today with some guildees and my oh my was it sloppy. It seemed like noone was focusing on the same target so threat was every where and as I got threat on one, something else went wild and I kept losing threat on ones and twos since noone wanted to attack the same target as anyone else. After the run I talked to them about this as the healer was puged in, and I got blowback from not using demoralizing shout as though that would solve the issue.

    So my question being: would demo shout have solved the issue by magicaly putting out enough threat that tclap and shockwave apparently weren't, or would it need to be a comba of demo, tclap, sw and all the rest of what I do coupled with focusing fire to make it a controled fight, or can I forego demo shout all together like normal if they assist target via me and all hit my target?

    Any mechanics or theories might assist, and I'll do as I can to clear up any questions I left hanging w/o realizing.

  2. #2
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    To begin Glyph of devastate and heravy usage of tab are better than any AoE shouting. So what you can do is tab around after putting your 2 AoE's on CD

  3. #3
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    I just noticed the 5 man and Heroics section, so that is gleared up.

    I am glyphed for dev and sunder to help with tabing through targets to stack the sunders up. If I wasn't posting this on my Droid i'd supply a link to my armory. Might do that when I get home from work.

  4. #4
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    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...argath&cn=Twee

    Not really sure how to make it look like everyone else's Armory links, but that'll give you the thingy to go to.

  5. #5
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    demo shout helps but its not the only answer.

    HHoR can be dreadful or it can be easy depending on who you go with.

    For warrior tanking you can still use the hide in the corner tactic and ensure you use TC, shockwave and tab target with revenge spam a lot.

    also i try and ensure that i tell the grp the kill priorities - prst, rogue, caster, warrior, hunter sort of thing and i allways make sure that if we have a hunter he is trapping and pet is controlled, druid healers seem to be massive aggro magnets and i allways make a point of setting focus target on them for fast intervenes and as allways keep spell reflect on cd.

    its a real test of control and of your grp. It is however a lot easier to tank it using the hide tactic for a pally / dk than a prot warrior imo.

    Sometimes i simply look at the grp then use the traditional tank in the hallway approach as everything seems a bit more "open" and controllable.

    It is certainly a test.
    Belgariad: EU : Lightnings Blade. Once a Tank. Always a Tank.

  6. #6
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    HHOR is one of my favorite instances. It's probably the only instance where there is still a price for sloppy play.

    Here's how I prefer to do HHOR.

    First, I tank in the entrance hallway, not the corner. The corner is cheating IMHO, and completely unnecessary as a warrior tank. As has been said, one of the keys to success in HHOR is kill order. Priests die first, then Mercs. Past that it doesn't really matter too much, provided you can keep aggro on everything. Make sure you're tanking the warrior adds away from the casters, as they do an aoe interrupt. Mages and Hunters are dealt with either by CC from the group or a well placed heroic throw and disarm. Heroic throw the mage, then charge the hunter and disarm him (removes his ranged weapon) and then you can pull them together. I'll generally pop a cooldown on each wave at the start to make the healers life a little easier. The key for holding aggro is getting the mobs all together so your shockwave/thunderclap/cleave/revenge/demoralizing shouts are effective. I also tell dps that the key to success is single target DPS, not padding the damage meter with big aoe damage. Proper use of resistances/auras is also helpful. Fire resist is helpful for the waves, then switch to shadow resist for the bosses.
    "What we need is a special blend of Psychology and extreme violence"

  7. #7
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    To be frank, threat is not even the biggest issue if dps are on different targets. Even if you have threat on all of them in that situation, the dps are making it MUCH harder than it needs to be. H HoR was designed to be punishing on tanks and healers unless you focus fire and burn mobs single target. Each target downed reduces the total damage by at least 1/3 - 1/5 and will make a bigger difference than anything else that can be done except cc. Yes, H HoR can be completed without cc but when done well, cc makes the waves before Marwyn and Falric a joke.

    Find a priest who is willing to shackle and a ret pally who is willing to turn undead. Assign them a mob type to watch for and cc, i.e. priest shackle the hunters and ret turn undead the mages. Then you can prioritize based on what has been most dangerous to you. The common order is priest->mage->merc-> whatever. Personally, when undergeared (I haven't looked at yours so I don't know where you fit) I like to take down the merc first as his shadowstep can get you killed before the stun wears off. At my current gear, I really don't care which is first, lol. Obviously, killing the priest makes it easier to down any other mobs as you eliminate the healing. If you have a good rogue, stun-locking and destroying the priest or mage is very helpful. Shamans who are good with wind-sheer can really make a difference with those two mobs too. The point is, be familiar with how each class can make your job easier and assign them a role. Mages can remove curse, even if they have never done it before, etc.

    As punishing as this instance is on the tank and healer, it is the dps who can make this place easy.

    Google warrior tanking HoR and there are some neat videos on how to do this in the open.
    Last edited by sifuedition; 04-30-2010 at 09:05 AM.

  8. #8
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    H HOR can be fun and easy. My method does not involve tanking in the center by the anvil, or LOSing the group in the corner of the boss alcoves. I instruct all members to stand in the doorway at the beginning. Melee mobs will funnel in, pick up the nearest one with a quick SS or devastate, then get the 2nd. Tclap and shockwave them, then use heroic throw to silence the mage and take him into the group. If there is a hunter mob, charge him, disarm him then hit him hard in the face and intercept back to your group. Save at least half a rage bar between waves or have bloodrage available. I've been using this method for months and the only time it's failed is when there was a bad or AFK healer, or when some dps class hauls off on a mob you aren't tanking yet and gets themselves killed. I always get complimented for the easy runs when I get the random in there, so believe me, it works very well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by sifuedition View Post
    As punishing as this instance is on the tank and healer, it is the dps who can make this place easy.
    This is so true.

    The last 3 posters hit on some points that really hit home I think.

    1) DPS need to be acting in a concerted effort to kill mobs
    2) Mob priority is indeed relative
    3) HoR can be brutal on a tank/healer if group coordination sucks

    and my own....

    4) ENSURE all targets are in front of you at all times
    5) Utilize your terrain

    .....
    1) If the dps is choosing different targets here... it can seriously create a headache for a tank of any sort. The mobs here can move FAST and they hit fairly hard too. I've seen the Merc wipe out clothies in a hurry. I've also seen the hunter/rifleman make for hell for the healer also, depending. Honestly... about the only time you can get away with dps craziness is if you have a group with a LOT of plate in it. Really though, to give the tank and healer the best chances of pulling it off... dps needs to seriously focus their attacks.

    2) Mob priority. Everyone says "priest first". I agree with the one poster.... the merc sometimes takes priority. I've had the merc stun me before and all I could do was helplessly watch as the scattered dps found themselves crushed and me unable to do ANYTHING to respond. I've also been crushed myself a few times due to the stun. The merc can cause real hell if he can get behind you and stun you. Same with the rifleman. I've had them freeze trap my healer.... which usually leads to a wipe. Also.... the mage... does a "flamestrike" type effect that can do a LOT of damage if you have toons with lower health reserves.

    My priority is as follows .... Priest = Merc > Mage > Hunter > Footmen

    3) As stated before... if group coordination is poor, tank and healer will suffer no matter how good they are. I've done runs where things went buttery smooth.... I've also done a 3-4 hour HoR run (yes... I'm stubborn and refuse to give up). The common thread I found in all my crappy runs...
    poor dps and group coordination. 9 times out of 10 it has been that. Not a fail tank or healer.

    HoR is a GREAT place to run your guild dps players to see if they really have their sh!t together for ICC. You'll find out in a hurry if they can make adjustments on the fly.... and if they understand the basic ideas of teamwork and coordination. What I've found.... pretty consistently.... is that my dps players who struggle in ICC or ToC.... are the same ones who struggle in HoR.

    4) I know. Common sense. But due to mobs fast movement and staggered approach throughout this run, it IS IMPORTANT. It's tougher if dps is pulling different stuff from different places. One evil trick I have learned.... is that it's far better to tank with your dps and mobs in front of you.... particularly on the final gauntlet event. There, I'll get myself set up like this.....



    It has several advantages to it that I have found. One.... you'll know if Arthas is coming close and if the pace needs to be picked up. You'll see his aura creeping up. I promise. Two.... Keeping mobs all stacked in front ensures you have dodge/parry/block working. Three.... if mobs run or go after dps... you can see it and don't have to turn to find them or expose yourself. Makes for quicker reaction times. Four.... any mobs running into combat, generally the try to run past you. As they go past you... all they're going to do is waste attack time. You taunt them... they have to turn around and run back to you... or are at least already in front of you. That's just my quick breakdown.

    5) Utilize your terrain. There are natural "funnels" built into this run. The alcoves.... the "doorway" into those.... all serve as a natural built in cc. Same on the gauntlet. There are narrower spots on the pathway that put the attackers into a narrower channel to run to get to you. Use these to ensure thunderclap.... DnD.... Consecrate... whatever... all nail as many targets as possible. Have your healer and ranged dps closer together so that the staggered mobs all take a similar path... and aren't running spread out.

    Just some basic tanking thoughts.
    No one tanks in a void.........

  10. #10
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    For heroics, especially if you are having aoe threat difficulties, use glyph of cleaving and shockwave as 2 of your major glyphs. In heroic HoR, tell the dps to focus casters first. If you use the corner strat (which you should if you are having difficulties in here), just let the first few mobs get to you then TC and queue a cleave with the 2nd or 3rd mob to reach you targetted. After all the mobs are grouped, shockwave them then just spam revenge every cooldown and tab between targets. Make sure to save heroic throw for mages who are stubborn and don't wanna follow you into the corner. You can generally leave the rifleman to do as they please until all other targets are dead. They don't pose much of a threat to anyone.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragaan View Post
    For heroics, especially if you are having aoe threat difficulties, use glyph of cleaving and shockwave as 2 of your major glyphs. In heroic HoR, tell the dps to focus casters first. If you use the corner strat (which you should if you are having difficulties in here), just let the first few mobs get to you then TC and queue a cleave with the 2nd or 3rd mob to reach you targetted. After all the mobs are grouped, shockwave them then just spam revenge every cooldown and tab between targets. Make sure to save heroic throw for mages who are stubborn and don't wanna follow you into the corner. You can generally leave the rifleman to do as they please until all other targets are dead. They don't pose much of a threat to anyone.
    Good basic strategy.
    Aain... issue with rifleman... is any traps they drop. If they nail the healer with a stun at the wrong time... it can suck. The ability is Ice Shot
    No one tanks in a void.........

  12. #12
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    Most of the stuff has been said.

    What i do is i tell to start on the priest first & mercenary second - i leave the mage & hunter last. If some dps starts going after them, i tell them specifically NOT to.
    A few moves on the priest and i turn & start working on the mercenary. The priest isnt dangerous so if you ahve some initial aggro lead, you dont have to actively work on him.
    For the mercenary, you have shockwave, demo shout, thunderclap and concussive blow. If you chain them carefully, you can keep him stunned for extended periods of time or reduce the damage he does when he's not stunned. Also, the aoe nature of most of those attacks will also keep any extra footmen on you. As long as the mercenary is controlled, you shouldnt have survival problems.
    For the mage, i use reflect tanking. This is the main reason i leave her last and make sure NOBODY attacks it. Reflect tanking will keep her aggro, keep her at range, damage her & reduce incoming damage to you. You may have to move a lot so the party doesnt get hurt by her flamestrike but otherwise she should keep. When it's her time, heroic throw should bring her close. Use a stun to transition her over 50% (ie, stun at 60%ish) to make sure she doesnt pop a halucination and you're home free.

    As a warrior you have to work three times hard as other tank classes. I have a 6000 gs warrior, a 5800gs DK tank and a 4600gs paladin tank, and i have the hardest time in that instance with my warrior. Easiest is, surprisingly, the poorly geared paladin. On the other hand, executing HoR HC properly & reliably on your warrior will end up making you a much better tank in the end, so keep going

  13. #13
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    Disagree. The Merc poses the bigger threat than the priest. You can keep the priest interrupted and stunned easily while the merc can shadowstep and stunlock you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  14. #14
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    My warrior is a very well geared fury warrior. Offspec is tank and i have to tank alll the heroics i go to unless i snag a tank from the guild (witch is rare).
    What i did basicly was to do heroics in tankspec, with onehander (tankwep from lk 10man trogger^^) and a shield. then is stacking tankgear until defencecapped and used dps gear for more tps. basicly taking the pices with more crit (some leather as agi gives dodge aswell) and my dps trinkets. This basicly made it VERY easy to tank heroics even with high dps'ers in the grp. What i do is save my shockweave jsut incase someone pull aggro then i stun them singelnuke that target and voila suddenly the trash is down. Not to hard realy. In raids it aint a problem with tps (never can understand those paladins taking dps weaponds away from someones offspec to get more tps) as Trix and MD will be rdy at pull and/or tankswapping.

  15. #15
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    Moved to HALP!

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  16. #16
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    A previous poster mentioned it, but it bears repeating. Spell reflect is a key talent for warrior tanks in the first part of H-HoR. You can definitely keep aggro on ranged caster over healers with just spell reflect. Of course, this doesn't work if dps are hitting them instead of a primary target but its not a hard issue to fix.

    Another trick is to hotkey your raid skull (or any raid mark really) so that you can quickly designate a target for unruly dps in the heat of a pull.

    Also, damage shield, our reactive threat generator, is based on block value, so don't be shy about throwing gear that sports block value on for heroics with big multi-mob pulls.

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