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Thread: Should Taunts Really Miss Bosses?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teran View Post
    I hope you're kidding. Lurker Below was an instant kill for any competitive guild in BC. It sounds to me like you're saying tanking used to be fun because the guild you used to be in sucked. I don't mean any offense by saying this, but it is an important distinction to make. My guild did not need to stance dance to beat nighbane, we often didn't even have a warrior in the raid... but claiming a 10 man raid like Karazhan has complicated fights is a bit of a stretch no matter what skill level your guild is or was.

    Being a good tank today is just as important as it was then, even more so if your guild is competitive. Fights aren't any more or less complicated than they were in the past, they are simply different... sometimes in a good way, sometimes in a bad way.

    I personally like taunt switching as a mechanic, it may be over used in current encounters but when used as a way of forcing tanks to be precise over a period of time. Heroic Saurfang may not be the hardest fight, but I like that it lets you measure just how precisely your raid can play with a quantifiable score at the end that goes beyond kill or wipe.

    Taunt switching is just one more thing tanks have to balance and if that were missing from the equation tanking would become as boring as a lot of people are claiming it already is.
    Saying taunt swaps force tanks to be precise is a bit of a stretch. It forces tanks to not fall asleep durring a fight, that is all.

    Heroic Syndragosa is the only fight that i can think of that has a taunt swap that isnt boring as hell.

    Also, your not looking at the picture that most of us are trying to paint. We are saying they need to get rid of taunt swaps and replace them with a different type of tank switch. Taunting back and fourth requires no concentration (i mean... common, how oftend does taunting late really wipe the raid?), and just is not fun at all.

  2. #62
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    Sure there is always something a tank can be doing better but lately I stopped keeping up to date with Warrior tanking Theorycrafting since the for the most part the all a Warrior needs to do is know to keep Shield Slam on priority while facerolling Heroic Strike, tanks that dont know the beauty of Heroic Strike generally suck.

    And I'm pretty sure it was Blizzard's intention to make a tanks role in encounters smaller then they used to be since bad tanks are easy to find and they'd rather not punish an entire raid because of it. Like I said I tanked 11/12 Heroic before the inflation of that damn buff and I really dont feel like I deserve to brag much about it.

    Marrowgar - I simply need to follow or lead the other tanks around some stupid fire....meanwhile healers need to deal with high incoming damage while avoiding those same fires during the bonestorm.

    Lady Deathwhisper - A bit more of a challenge I'll admit what with generating threat, feels like some old school encounters because of her taunt immunity, but tank swapping on Deathwhisper isn't even mandatory because of MD and Trix. Meanwhile a tank with his/her high health pool can disregard the ghost (not recommended) while healers and DPS need to stay on the move while doing their jobs.

    Saurfang - I need to press the taunt button, and if assigned Shockwave an add, while ranged deal with adds that can lock them in place that will oneshot them if touched and healers must sustain an insane amount of healing where one wasted global can cost a life. (I've healed it on a paladin and I let a mark die cause I refreshed a Beacon

    Festergut - once again hit the taunt button while standing in place, before you could see where the goo would be dropped DPS, and Healing had to maximize performance while watching Putrecide on a balcony chuck goo at you

    Putrecide - Main Tank moves boss around depending on the fights current momentum, followed by a series of tank swaps, much more interesting then most other Hardmodes. Meanwhile the rest of the raid deals with that damn plague, goo, and pushing DPS hard enough to kill the Oozes. Votiles need to be handled carefully aswell.

    Blood Princes - unless your the tanking the Shadow dude, you basically just stand where you are and move when you see a Shock Vortex spawn. While this fight is a joke on 25 man it's was one of our biggest hurdles in 10 man, since we didn't have much ranged. But as a tank there was jack I could do, or brag about after downing them since I just tanked the two Princes.

    Blood Queen - if your raid is reliable enough both tanks can probably find a way to spam a cast sequence macro and go afk until the fear.

    Valithria - I've yet to tank this on 25 player to be honest but on 10 man we prefer'd to solo tank it, which was very enjoyable as a warrior, the quick decision making and reaction time needed reminded me of Heroics like Shattered Halls.

    Sindragosa - while most people can agree that this fight sucks, at least the tank swap required here isn't just a simple button press and there is more on the line, since many simple errors can cost the fight and I much enjoy the pressure. However I'm sure Healers have it even harder since they also need to clear their stacks, and heal through a lot of raid and tank damage, while making sure they dont blow up their raid in the process.

    Lich King - haven't tanked Heroic LK but regular mode pre-buff is far more entertaining then the simple stand in the middle of the room mechanics we normally put up with. Here I'd tank LK in phase one use my vigilance and in combination of a mouse over taunting macro to keep adds on myself. Try to generate as much threat as I could on the raging spirits after picking them up quickly since we normally didn't raid with a hunter/rogue. Then having to move then close to LK w/o getting anyone blasted by their cone damage. Followed by coordinating around defiles, Valk Stuns where also my job and taunting whenever the tank on LK didn't have a CD for Soul Reaper.

    So with the exception of a few fights in ICC I'm pretty sure the tank has the easiest job, I almost felt like I was carried to my Kingslayer title and I rarely feel the pressure I used to back in TBC, I only tend to get such feelings from healing these days.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by squats View Post
    This thread isnt about tanking being too easy. Its about tanking being boring. Yeah sure you can do things to make the raid more efficient, but that wont make the mechanics of a fight any less boring to a tank.
    I was referring to a specific fight (Deathbringer Saurfang), not all fights with a swap mechanic. As far as tanking being boring, that is in the eye of the beholder. Do you think dpsing a long string of giant feet while dodging fire and fire substitutes is "fun"? I don't think so. The fun in raiding comes from trying to become a better player with each boss kill.

    I am refreshed by the challenge and once I know an encounter and all the factors that apply to me as a tank I can start looking at the encounter and all the factors that apply to the healers and dps. Once I know this I gain more control over the encounter because I understand the needs and risks my fellow raiders face in the encounter and through becoming efficient at my own job I can assist my guild mates with theirs so we become more efficient as a raid.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kahmal View Post
    ...And I'm pretty sure it was Blizzard's intention to make a tanks role in encounters smaller then they used to be since bad tanks are easy to find and they'd rather not punish an entire raid because of it...
    I don't understand what you are trying to say with this comment. Do you really believe tanks are less important today than they were in BC or Vanilla? You're right, good tanks are hard to find... this is not a new trend starting in WotLK, this has always been the case. Additionally, it is difficult to find good healers and dps too. A raid may be canceled if you don't have a good tank show up, but the same is true for healers and dps. It is perhaps most noticeable with tanks because most guilds prefer not to have too many for fear of excessive sidelining.

    Over simplifying raid encounters doesn't really prove anything because you can do it with any fight.

    Marrowgar and Deathwhisper may not be ultra complicated fights but they serve as an introduction to the instance. It's rare for the first bosses of an instance to be truly difficult. Your comments on Saurfang are incorrect... in a computer game, all people ever do is push buttons at certain points. Screwing up as the tank adds more marks to the raid very quickly and while you don't directly suffer from this, your healers do and if you are sloppy you will wipe. In that particular fight the healers start off with the easiest job and end with the hardest, how hard the job actually becomes however is completely on the shoulders of the tanks and dps.

    Your comments on festergut are interesting. Are you saying that all you need to do to kill festergut is survive, maintain threat, and most importantly, be aware of your surroundings? As I said before, over simplification doesn't really work because that is fundamentally true for all encounters, for all roles.

    I'll agree with you on blood princes and blood queen. I rather like tanking the green dragon 25 man encounter. Each of the adds is a unique threat and trying to manage which need to die first, which needs to be interrupted, which needs to be faced away from the raid, and a few other factors is a lot of fun... the real issue with this fight though is that it only really gets hectic after a period of time and the soft enrage.

    I disagree with your comments on Sindragosa. The fight is all on the tanks, botch the swap and it's a wipe. You must be aware of who is getting the debuffs, who is clearing their stacks, your own personal hp pool, maintaining threat, pre-emptively popping cooldowns if a frost breath is coming while you're stacked up... While not tanking you need to be communicating with the raid so you can clear your stacks in a timely manner so the other tank doesn't get one hit killed by a breath. The instant death element of the encounter also applies to the tanks. As a feral druid I also manage dropping the movement debuff from the frost breath.

    We may have to agree to disagree however I think you are exaggerating the situation. Your role as a tank may not seem as obviously difficult or interesting as healers or dps (though I disagree) however you are in a unique position more so than the other roles to increase raid efficiency. Tank mistakes have a big negative impact on the raid, but an insightful tank who understands the encounter beyond his or her little part of it will have a big positive impact.

    So with the exception of a few fights in ICC I'm pretty sure the tank has the easiest job, I almost felt like I was carried to my Kingslayer title and I rarely feel the pressure I used to back in TBC, I only tend to get such feelings from healing these days.[/QUOTE]

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teran View Post

    I don't understand what you are trying to say with this comment. Do you really believe tanks are less important today than they were in BC or Vanilla? You're right, good tanks are hard to find... this is not a new trend starting in WotLK, this has always been the case. Additionally, it is difficult to find good healers and dps too. A raid may be canceled if you don't have a good tank show up, but the same is true for healers and dps. It is perhaps most noticeable with tanks because most guilds prefer not to have too many for fear of excessive sidelining.
    First of all terrible healers and crappy DPS can easily be carried through a raid, DPS is expendable most of the time and good healers can pick up the slack of mediocre ones. If your tank's threat is terrible either the trigger happy DPS while die, or the rest of the DPS that can control themselves will have their numbers throttled. Encounters in TBC very did demand a bit more from tanks, encounters required a bit more movement, the number of required tanks varied from 1 to 5, making for a larger amount of possible encounter types. On top of those things, keeping yourself alive was a lot more emphasize thanks to crushing blows. Performing your job, while mantaining threat and trying to make sure you dont get crushed could make things a lot more ambiguous cause a Boss could quickly eat through your Shield Block charges and crush you and you'd have to react to it if you did survive. If I died I would check my combat log to see if I fucked up. WoTLK I might aswell just turn around give my healers the "WTF!" look.


    Quote Originally Posted by Teran View Post

    Your comments on Saurfang are incorrect... in a computer game, all people ever do is push buttons at certain points. Screwing up as the tank adds more marks to the raid very quickly and while you don't directly suffer from this, your healers do and if you are sloppy you will wipe.
    If a tank can't pay attention to his fellow tanks debuffs, and then press taunt when he realizes he has that bad debuff....I really dont know what to say. I dont see how my statement on Saurfang didn't show tanks have it easy on that fight. (melee even easier)

    Quote Originally Posted by Teran View Post
    Your comments on festergut are interesting. Are you saying that all you need to do to kill festergut is survive, maintain threat, and most importantly, be aware of your surroundings? As I said before, over simplification doesn't really work because that is fundamentally true for all encounters, for all roles.
    I said that the DPS and healers need to be aware of their surroundings, if Festergut wasn't considered a DPS race the tank could consider going afk when he's not tanking, infact with the ICC buff he might as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teran View Post
    I disagree with your comments on Sindragosa. The fight is all on the tanks, botch the swap and it's a wipe. You must be aware of who is getting the debuffs, who is clearing their stacks, your own personal hp pool, maintaining threat, pre-emptively popping cooldowns if a frost breath is coming while you're stacked up... While not tanking you need to be communicating with the raid so you can clear your stacks in a timely manner so the other tank doesn't get one hit killed by a breath. The instant death element of the encounter also applies to the tanks. As a feral druid I also manage dropping the movement debuff from the frost breath.

    We may have to agree to disagree however I think you are exaggerating the situation. Your role as a tank may not seem as obviously difficult or interesting as healers or dps (though I disagree) however you are in a unique position more so than the other roles to increase raid efficiency. Tank mistakes have a big negative impact on the raid, but an insightful tank who understands the encounter beyond his or her little part of it will have a big positive impact.
    I gave Sindragosa credit as an encounter that could challenge tanks, but I was refering to Heroic Sindragosa, and then stating that Healers have it WAY harder in my opinion. I'm not sure if you've done it but while the tank is engaging in the same mechanics as regular mode for the most part, the Unchained Magic debuff that healers and casters must deal with becomes a bit more of pain. Deciding to cast with Unchained wont result in blowing up the ignorant player, but instead proceed to blow up all surrounding raid members, and in phase 3 people are pretty damn clumped up, one Unchained explosion can kill about half the raid if not more. Now since Sindragosa isn't exactly a DPS race casters should just be patient and monitor the Unchained magic for when it will come out that way they dont cast accidently when it appears on them.

    But imagine a healer, think about a Holy Paladin who needs to deal with moving properly with Ice Blocks, standing on the correct side to make sure they too are not frozen, while healing the tank on the Sindy and then seeing his/her magic debuff stacks is dangerously high, calling out that he/she is going to clear his/her stacks and then see's that the other Holy Paladin or tank healer must move cause he has the next Frost Beacon, and the tanks health is taking a nose dive, panicing for the tanks life and seeing that his/her stacks will clear in time he jumps out for that day saving Holy Light only to see half the raid blown to oblivion because he/she just got the Unchained debuff, in a very tight spot.

    Not saying the tank isn't important since I'll admit a whole lot of shit can go wrong for the tank that fight, but it just sounds to me like healers get the harder end of the deal.

  5. #65
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    Rose-tinted glasses guys. I've main tanked in 3 top 20 world guilds since Vanilla and there have been a handful of challenging tank fights in every expansion. For every Kael'Thalas or Hydross or Archimonde there were 10 Tidehunters or Supremuses or Garrs. Tanking will always have an element of "ease" to it compared to DPS or healing, but on the flipside, tanks need to be completely reliable, need to maintain a knowledge of correct itemization, and need to always play at 100% if you want to make each attempt count.
    Tanking has switched from threat based and itemization based to more of a cooldown and positioning role, but it's still challenging, and still pretty damn fun.


    Edit - Also Teran, Lurker was still challenging for a lot of guilds. Nightbane's original incarnation was definitely challenging for every guild and required a precise raid makeup, and from your snide, elitist comments I am guessing you never saw that version of him. No reason for that attitude.

  6. #66
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    As a raid leader, theres a reason why I prefer tanking instead of DPSing, and thats because I find it easier to do so while making calls, watching the raid, watching my timers, etc, etc.

    I've tanked since Vanilla, first as a warrior, now as my DK, and I have to say I agree with Edgewalker here in terms of the challenging to easy fights to tank ratio.

    The topic has come up in the guild a couple of times, and as I said...if any role has it rough in ICC, its definitely the healers. If anyone has it easy its the tanks. Sindragosa/LK are the only two encounters I consider having any challenge at all in terms of tanking, and even then for Sindy its only during Phase 3, and even then healers have it worse, especially in heroic mode.

    So I'm in the mindset that I'd love to see more challenging fights from a tank perspective, and would love mechanics to make it less mind numbing. But this is just as far as simple boss mechanics go, I still enjoy tanking alot, as theres alot of thought that needs to be put into it, and you actually have to manage cooldowns properly instead of just using them whenever they are available. Its just a simple matter of what makes the game enjoyable to you.

    And yes, original Nightbane was a terror.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanzer View Post
    As a raid leader, theres a reason why I prefer tanking instead of DPSing, and thats because I find it easier to do so while making calls, watching the raid, watching my timers, etc, etc.
    I used to love tanking, since I first went Prot in TBC,I only tanked as Fury in Vanilla, and I used to resent DPS as trigger happy and expendable assets to the raid. (jerk) I was forced to go DPS during Wrath since I had the best off set and we needed a DPS warrior, it was then I noticed that Tanking feels pretty much like DPSing while standing infront of the boss, minus the large numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kanzer View Post
    So I'm in the mindset that I'd love to see more challenging fights from a tank perspective, and would love mechanics to make it less mind numbing. But this is just as far as simple boss mechanics go, I still enjoy tanking alot, as theres alot of thought that needs to be put into it, and you actually have to manage cooldowns properly instead of just using them whenever they are available. Its just a simple matter of what makes the game enjoyable to you.

    And yes, original Nightbane was a terror.
    I feel that encounters that are challenging from the tanks perspective effects the entire raid thus adding new elements to the fight which keep them interesting.

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    I skimed the last couple of pages of theis thread but on the first couple people where talking about DK's having 2 taunts. What are they? Obviously Dark command and most people seem to think Death Grip.

    My understanding of death grip is it forces the target to attack you for 3 seconds but dose nothing for agro corect me if I'm wrong but that is not a taunt is it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kahmal View Post
    I gave Sindragosa credit as an encounter that could challenge tanks, but I was refering to Heroic Sindragosa, and then stating that Healers have it WAY harder in my opinion. I'm not sure if you've done it but while the tank is engaging in the same mechanics as regular mode for the most part, the Unchained Magic debuff that healers and casters must deal with becomes a bit more of pain. Deciding to cast with Unchained wont result in blowing up the ignorant player, but instead proceed to blow up all surrounding raid members...
    I don't know why you'd differentiate this from any other pool of fire on the ground except that in many cases it is even easier to deal with because a caster has two options... stop casting to negate the effect, or move away from the party and cast from a safe distance. Of course it's not as easy as it sounds in the context of Sindragosa phase 3, but then neither is the tank swap as you have a very limited window of time to drop your stack and get back out there to save the other tank. This requires a lot of personal decision making as a tank and in my opinion is exactly the opposite of the fight until that point because frankly it goes from being probably the slowest paced fight in the instance to the fastest paced fight.

    I won't say it is easier or harder than what the healers have to deal with but in the case of healers communication can often mean the difference between survival and death but with the tank swap communication is unlikely to help unless you're telling the other guy to shieldwall the next breath... and that only works once during the encounter. Healers can often risk another stack or stepping away from the raid, tanks have fewer options and those they do have are less forgiving.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgewalker View Post
    Tanking has switched from threat based and itemization based to more of a cooldown and positioning role, but it's still challenging, and still pretty damn fun.

    Edit - Also Teran, Lurker was still challenging for a lot of guilds. Nightbane's original incarnation was definitely challenging for every guild and required a precise raid makeup, and from your snide, elitist comments I am guessing you never saw that version of him. No reason for that attitude.
    Well said, I agree completely. As for Nightbane, there was an optimal raid makeup but it was not the only choice people had. As an alliance guild if we did not have a warrior in the raid we had a feral tank and often had a dwarf priest. Later on we had Shamans as well but the fight was less an issue at that point. If we didn't have a reliable fear counter we used what we had and prayed we had no non-tank resists.

    As for your final comment, I try not to make assumptions about what people have or haven't seen. Frankly it doesn't really matter to me because anyone can have insight on the topic whether they saw the fight from the perspective of dps, tank, or healer. It is not my intent to be elitist and as far as I can tell, the person who I was typing to did not take what I said as being insulting.

    On the internet, we're all tone deaf. I would be happy to clarify or re-phrase anything you found offensive in my post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rabban View Post
    I skimed the last couple of pages of theis thread but on the first couple people where talking about DK's having 2 taunts. What are they? Obviously Dark command and most people seem to think Death Grip.

    My understanding of death grip is it forces the target to attack you for 3 seconds but dose nothing for agro corect me if I'm wrong but that is not a taunt is it?
    Based on tool tip descriptions it looks like it functions like other tanks aoe taunts. If this is the case then it doesn't change threat but may keep the enemy on you long enough to put a real taunt on him. There could also be something additional in the movement mechanic but I know little about death knight tanks as my guild unfortunately does not have one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teran View Post
    I don't know why you'd differentiate this from any other pool of fire on the ground except that in many cases it is even easier to deal with because a caster has two options... stop casting to negate the effect, or move away from the party and cast from a safe distance. Of course it's not as easy as it sounds in the context of Sindragosa phase 3, but then neither is the tank swap as you have a very limited window of time to drop your stack and get back out there to save the other tank. This requires a lot of personal decision making as a tank and in my opinion is exactly the opposite of the fight until that point because frankly it goes from being probably the slowest paced fight in the instance to the fastest paced fight.
    Dropping your stacks is a lot easier them most people think, many people stay behind the Iceblock until there stack completly drops off, what they dont know is that they're actually wasting valuable time doing that. If you look closely at Sindragosa in phase 3 you'll notice that she pulses an Arcane Explosion like animation about every 3 seconds. Thats the magic debuff she applies, so really all you need to do is dip behind the Iceblock until your around 3 seconds wait for her to pulse again and then run back out even if you still have the debuff because it will fall off before she reapplies it.

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    I'm tanking as a paladin, so my statements maybe incorrect for other classas, but my opinion is making sure that taunt always hits is more important from the raid's PoV than ie. 10% more damage from judgements. Threat shouldn't be an issue, but if you miss a taunt, then make a Mocking Blow to keep the boss on yourself till your taunt will be off cd, you can still cause a big problem. There is a risk, that the boss become taunt immune if you use 2 or 3 taunt effects in a short time window, and the other tank can't taunt back when he/she should. It's like backstabbing the other tank, as the raid will realise the fact, that he/she couldn't taunt the boss back and they will blame the other tank - who didn't anything wrong. I say, it is always worth to make everything run smoothly as you can.

    I think that the current mechanics of taunt is nice, and at least something motivates the tanks to get close to the hitcap. I'm afraid otherways tanks would almost completely ignore the importance of hit rating. One of my guildmates told me, taunts didn't worked in the past like now - they made the boss/mob attack you, but didn't threat itself, like the fixate effects. In other ways, you had x seconds to get in front of the dps in threat, who overaggroed you. So asking to make taunts always hit without any hit or glyph is nonsense I think.

    I think tanking isn't just about to survive things. You have to pick up multiple targets immediately as well. If you know that 1 of 10 taunts can miss, then you should keep in mind, that missed taunt is a potential wipe (as the mob will oneshot one or more of the healers during you wait for your wasted taunt cd). A reasonable tank couldn't let this to happen. So, to summarize the things: don't underestimate the importance of hit, and if you want your taunt to always hit, then do whatever you can to make things like that.

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    Taunts miss for all classes, and they really shouldn't. Such a stupid thing that they miss, you have few oh shit buttons otherwise to grab back aggro during some boss fights, and the last thing you want is Lich King pimp slapping your DPS around because your taunt missed, or a Shambling Horror turning and smacking your ranged upside the head and one shotting them.


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    Keep in mind before WoTLK most bosses weren't even Tauntable, if you pulled aggro, unless you were a Mage/Hunter/Rogue or had very fast BoPing Paladins.....you died..

    Whatever bosses were tauntable was because of the mechanics of the fight. Hence why if a boss is supposed to be taunted....I shouldn't have to waist a glyph slot for it to not miss....

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    Is a glyph wasted if it helps you succeed?

    By your argument, Glyph of Taunt is a worthless glyph. So, when you tell Blizzard that Glyph of Taunt is worthless, the first thing they will do, is find away to make it worth something by making missed taunts something to worry about. There, they fixed the problem.
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinafoi View Post
    Is a glyph wasted if it helps you succeed?

    By your argument, Glyph of Taunt is a worthless glyph. So, when you tell Blizzard that Glyph of Taunt is worthless, the first thing they will do, is find away to make it worth something by making missed taunts something to worry about. There, they fixed the problem.
    This.

    Why dumb down things? If taunts always hit, that is one less thing to worry about, making tanking even more boring. And let us say for the sake of argument they DID make a talent or minor glyph which adds 17% hit. They would then be forced to do something else to challenge you.

    It's a delicate balance, keeping it simple for the common denominator versus making a fight interesting enough to not have the top 30% percentile of the skilled tanks just leave in disgust.

  16. #76
    ive said this before, not everyone agrees with me yet i will stand by it.
    theres threshold inwhich hit becomes a survivability stat. If you are missing taunts and causing wipes, its not blizzards fault, its up to you, as a tank to make sure it doesnt happen. think of the glyph as a survivability glyph, raid survivability.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Insahnity View Post
    This.

    Why dumb down things? If taunts always hit, that is one less thing to worry about, making tanking even more boring. And let us say for the sake of argument they DID make a talent or minor glyph which adds 17% hit. They would then be forced to do something else to challenge you.
    Taunting isn't exciting to begin with. Taunt's may have been meant to miss or not dunno. But IMHO a taunt should never miss. I hate the fact that I need to glyph for Righteous Defense just to reach 17% hit. I mean at least put it on the melee hit and not spell hit cap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by towelliee View Post
    Taunting isn't exciting to begin with. Taunt's may have been meant to miss or not dunno. But IMHO a taunt should never miss. I hate the fact that I need to glyph for Righteous Defense just to reach 17% hit. I mean at least put it on the melee hit and not spell hit cap.
    Already done, taunts are melee hit table in beta atm



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    Quote Originally Posted by Insahnity View Post
    This.

    Why dumb down things? If taunts always hit, that is one less thing to worry about, making tanking even more boring. And let us say for the sake of argument they DID make a talent or minor glyph which adds 17% hit. They would then be forced to do something else to challenge you.

    It's a delicate balance, keeping it simple for the common denominator versus making a fight interesting enough to not have the top 30% percentile of the skilled tanks just leave in disgust.
    It doesn't dumb it down. Especially for classes with only one taunt. If a taunt misses, there's nothing you can do until it comes back off of CD, or until someone other than you manages to find a way to quickly shift threat to you. That's not fun, nor complicated, nor an interesting mechanic.

    There are many ways to make tanking interesting and exciting, and something where skilled tanks can excel. Keeping taunts on spell hit so that they miss even when you're "hit capped" for most of your abilities is not one of those ways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darksend View Post
    Already done, taunts are melee hit table in beta atm
    God Damn it. I loved having Warrior worry about Spell Hit Cap. Made me feel good about giving them Dalaran Intellect and such.

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