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Thread: The Weekly Marmot -- Paladin Preview

  1. #1
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    The Weekly Marmot -- Paladin Preview




  2. #2
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    good watch!

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    Might be worth mentioning that Might and Wisdom are being combined. And I'm guessing people like melee paladins and enh shamans are gonna double dip because of it!

    As for Guardian of Ancient Kings, remember the Golden Axe Arcade game? When you blew a full (3 stack as a dwarf/5 stack as a barbarian/7 stack as an amazon) and you got a kick ass magic spell?


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    Very good as always! I really liked your comments in regards to bloodlust/heroism. My main raiding toon is an Elemental shaman and I'm glad that another class will be able to provide this to the raid. I also agree that if you are getting into raids only because of the buff you bring then you should spend more time learning your class and become a better player.

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    dont get in before "you're just qqing about my class reviews is the worst"

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    I liked the video, Lore. There was a whole lot you couldn't cover in the time you had, and I'm sure we'll see plenty of it in Tankspot discussions anyways, but the things you did cover are certainly important and things to watch for. Since my Paladin is Holy, the most notable of those is Holy Shock becoming baseline. I had assumed that, in an effort to bring Paladins back to a baseline in PvP, that they would be doing more to reduce the potential of non-Holy Paladin healing. It may still be possible, maybe they'll reduce healing done while covered by Divine Shield which can only be gotten rid of through the Holy tree, etc... but, as it stands with the information we have, I'm sort of confused with where they're going.

    Guardian of Ancient Kings is certainly promising, and I hope that it is awesome and badass. Though, I must say, I like the graphic for the Val'kyr's off of Nibelung. That said, they are, otherwise speaking, sort of boring, and it would be neat if they did something a bit more kickass with their spells, but it's a non-legendary staff so I can't really complain. But, with a class spell, I would certainly hope it would be more interesting.

    As far as Holy Shield retaining most of what it does now, my only presumption is that all Tanks will be getting something of the sort in Cataclysm, which just means that Tanks will be more responsible for actively mitigating their damage. I find this to be a good thing. With a lot of the encounters currently doing very little tankwise, it makes it a bit boring. And while I would rather they increase encounter complexity for tanks rather than making tanking more complex, a mix of both is probably the optimal solution. It also better distinguishes good tanks from bad tanks (just like you're looking for in Ret). When a fight can't show off your tanking skills, you can show them off by doing what you need to be doing at all times in order to do your job, which means keeping up your active mitigation. A whole lot has been left vague in most of the class previews, especially in regards to Tanks, so there's stuff to watch out for.

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    "And then you wipe because everyone was staring at it BUT THAT WAS THE COOLEST THING I'VE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE"

    I agree with that. only thing they should do is make pally buffs 30 minutes in the beginning... for leveling in instances it's just terrible to have 10 minutes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lakshata View Post
    "And then you wipe because everyone was staring at it BUT THAT WAS THE COOLEST THING I'VE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE"

    I agree with that. only thing they should do is make pally buffs 30 minutes in the beginning... for leveling in instances it's just terrible to have 10 minutes.
    I disagree this will be an issue. For example, when Black Heart had a pally bubble animation, this was an issue only for the first time people saw it, and then people got used to it. This will be the same. When you have seen it countless times in a raid it ceases to be a novelty, unless they do something like a Matrix "Freeze time and pan around the Ancient Guardian just before it Drop Kicks the boss". THAT might screw people up.

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    Nice vid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Insahnity View Post
    I disagree this will be an issue. For example, when Black Heart had a pally bubble animation, this was an issue only for the first time people saw it, and then people got used to it. This will be the same. When you have seen it countless times in a raid it ceases to be a novelty, unless they do something like a Matrix "Freeze time and pan around the Ancient Guardian just before it Drop Kicks the boss". THAT might screw people up.
    They changed the black heart animation because it never stopped messing with people's (read: my) head.
    I. Am. Warrior.

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    a "good" or "bad" way to make it easy to fail as a ret pally might be to bring back the old-school judgement system. although i dont think anyone want that

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    The main reason Ive seen people QQ about unique buffs going to other classes is because they pay more than the hybrid tax to get the buff to then bring to the raid. Mage with bloodlust is a good example of this mage is already very high on comparable DPS. How ever people forget cataclisim is going to change a lot of things and those getting the buff will get lowered in their comparable DPS or your potential DPS will go up.

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    What scares me about the pally block changes is how it will affect the other classes in balancing. Blood DKs will be gods in PVP I'd assume if they can heal enough to make up for for the amount they don't get to block. I suppose I'll have to wait and see what they come up with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lulia View Post
    As far as Holy Shield retaining most of what it does now, my only presumption is that all Tanks will be getting something of the sort in Cataclysm, which just means that Tanks will be more responsible for actively mitigating their damage. I find this to be a good thing. With a lot of the encounters currently doing very little tankwise, it makes it a bit boring. And while I would rather they increase encounter complexity for tanks rather than making tanking more complex, a mix of both is probably the optimal solution. It also better distinguishes good tanks from bad tanks (just like you're looking for in Ret). When a fight can't show off your tanking skills, you can show them off by doing what you need to be doing at all times in order to do your job, which means keeping up your active mitigation. A whole lot has been left vague in most of the class previews, especially in regards to Tanks, so there's stuff to watch out for.
    It'd be nice if it doesn't just become "Bind this button to everything so it's always up". The old shield block mechanic comes to mind, and it wasn't very cool. Maybe if it were something like "When you raise your shield you take a lot less damage, but you can't swing so hard" and then make threat an issue.

  15. #15
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    So lore towards the first part of your video I had one main problem with what you were saying, classes are atm being sat out because of buffs... In bleeding hardcore guilds that most of these people that qq about the problem will never see. But I digress because it isn't that bad

    Second, you were honestly concerned with holy shock for healing? Personally I was more concerned shockadin would be returning or it would be an op way for prot pally to get extra threat or ret to get more dmg in but that's just me.

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    Now that the Paladin class has now been released I have seen that all four tank classes (Blood DK, Protection Warrior and Paladin and Feral Bear Druid) all get the Vengeance ability through the mastery system. Could you explain this ability as I got a little bit confused by it. The ability is:

    Vengeance – Every time the Death Knight/Warrior/Paladin/Druid takes damage, he or she will gain (up to) 5% of the damage taken as attack power. This buff will stack to (up to) 10% of the Death Knight's maximum un-buffed health.

    This seems a bit insane and I will use the example of my current main character.

    My main is a Blood DK Tank and HP unbuffed comes to 40.1k (so lets round it to 40k). Now the way that I read this ability is lets say each time I took 100 damage (I know its not much but its a nice easy figure), 5% of that is obviously 5. And this stacks upto 10% of my unbuffed health which in this case would be a maximum of 4000 times. Now if I did get 5 extra AP for each of those stacks that would come to an extra 20000AP and thats a bit insane. My character doesn't even have all top end gear (its got a mix of 264, 251, 245, 232 and even one 226 and one 200). So if he did have the top end gear that would be even more health thus leading to more stacks. And I know in Cata they are going to reduce the stamina on Tank Plate gear but when we get to lv85 that will just go back up again.
    Last edited by tboneS1987; 04-16-2010 at 03:48 AM. Reason: Typo

  17. #17
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    I am just speculating, but if they are doing the stam changes that I have read. Imho I believe that they are trying for an over haul in general, wrath probably being that last time we see health and mana pools as big as they are.

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    So about Mages getting Heroism/Bloodlust in Cataclysm. Some people will think Shamans will be obslete and some will just look at as part of the game. Me personally I have both a Shaman and Mage so I will look at like this....more fun for me!! For those that think Mages getting Heroism/Bloodlust would render Shamans useless relax you can respec into elemental if you are enhance That's what I'm going to be doing once I renew my account again.

  19. #19
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    Main issue that came up with giving mages a BL equivalent was around the hybrid/pure-class thing. If Blizzard will still keep taxing hybrids for being able to offspec and keep pure dps classes above then the only other thing that's brought in as a factor when creating a more progression-oriented raid would be utility/buffs.

    So if an elemental shaman can do SP buff + BL why bother bringing one of them when you can bring a demo lock who brings a bigger buff and potentially more DPS + a mage who's a pure dps and will do more damage.

    Sure the same won't be available when you're looking at pugs or guilds who raid primarily for fun. But people who do get involved with their class, look around and practice a bit will end up being good at what they do and when you have a multitude of people like that to choose from for, say, first time going in ICC you'll choose the most efficient combination possible - all possible buffs/debuffs coming from the classes who can do them while maintaining as much DPS as possible -you're not gonna pick an arms warrior over a feral cat - does anyone even play arms anymore except when needed for debuff? + keep as much raid utility as you can - see pallys via blessing/bubbles etc.

    If they're gonna limit some classes through mechanics then they should either give them more utility via either unique buffs/buff combinations/stronger version of buffs OR by giving them more utility - CR, soulstone (which on a pure DPS class still seems OP as hell to me), bubble, move-speed bonus, etc.

  20. #20
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    I think Shaman just need to get with the times. I think they're so worried about Heroism/Bloodlust (well, only some - our resto Shaman *hates* having heroism) because they've been on the low end of the raid damage curve for most of the expansion, and they are the only ones who have BL/hero at the moment.

    So you could understand why some people might be confused, especially since a lot of pugs think Hero/Bloodlust is such a huge buff (its nice, but it isn't mind-blowingly good). It starts to feel in pugs like "bring the player not the class...and a Shaman". This is especially true since Shaman tend to be a rarer class.

    Shammies, take it from the Shadow Priest here - passing out your unique, world-ending buff to other classes is a GOOD GOOD thing. It sucked to have your damage throttled and only being brought because you had an overpowered, unique mana return mechanic.

    Yes, and also a lot of people can't seem to grasp that the DPS classes will be rebalanced around all doing the same damage as much as possible. So don't read "mages get hero/BL" as "mages will now do a ton more damage than shaman" or something. As GC says, don't worry about the numbers. Just assume they'll be at least as balanced as today, if not better.

    I am a little concerned that a lot of the stuff in the preview didn't seem to jive with their stated goals for Paladins - lowering Paladin defenses, yet making Holy Shock baseline, for one. I could see where they take out Art of War, and essentially make Holy Shock the Art of War for all Paladin specs. I did like the Proc mechanic on my Ret Paladin though, I will miss that if that is what they are in fact doing.

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