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Thread: Expertise, Hit, and your Threat. What it means to all Tanks. (Current for 3.3.3)

  1. #61
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    the problem with going by "individual situations" is that often, it is the INDIVIDUAL who is making a mistake, blaming the general convention as wrong, and claiming their system is more true.

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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodasafa View Post
    The facts about Expertise and Hit in the current game.

    Look its not that Expertise and Hit do not increase your threat, they do. However they do so on a much smaller scale than people realize.

    How all tanks generate threat (Listed from the highest source to the lowest):
    1) Using your abilities properly. This is paramount, nothing increase your threat more than this.
    2) Spec and Glyphs.
    3) Proper use of external abilities such as TotT and MD.
    4) 26 Expertise Skill.
    5) Hit rating.

    So I should just mindlessly stack stamina?
    Stacking stamina is not mindless unless you do not understand why you should be doing it. Tanks that do not min/max their survival by stacking stamina (or armor where available) through gems and enchants are only doing their raid a disservice. There have been numerous reports from highly respected community members here on tankspot, in world ranked guilds that tanked Heroic ToGC 25 with as little as 40 hit rating and are now also in Heroic ICC 25 with as little as 16 expertise rating. These tanks are working with DPS that are pulling 10k+ on most fights and doing just fine without reaching the hit cap or the expertise soft cap.

    If a tank is having threat issues no amount of expertise or hit is going to correct that, see #1 & 2.




    Please sticky and attach strobe light. If this belongs in a better forum for a sticky please move. Thank you.
    Hmm, I do not want to disrespect this thing, neither anything else. BUT ! Do you really people think that generalizing something is just right ?

    Earlier today I have had a disccusion about the fact that if you go to LichKing Heroic 25 & you have Prot pala in raid, then you do not need a disco priest wasting talents in renewed hope, as he barely does anything else then bubbles... People swarmed me that I am noob, but think again ! Do you really need 3% damage reduction after each bubble if you got it covered by paly or do you need extra crit on heals if you do not cast them ( most of time )...

    Now, about HP pool, expertise, hit, armor, avoidance, mitigance and all that crap overall.

    It is well known that tanks always tended to go full stamina, stamina everywhere, ignoring most of other stats. Some time ago in TBC I were in an guild with my warrior tank & there was another warrior tank. He basicaly did go all stam, as most of the people did and I aimed for crushing immunity, which was wise choice to do , obviously. Either way, he was taken as MT ussualy because he had aprox 4k hp more then me, and in most cases he was taking huge spikes, and I was told when I get more HP, i Will MT... sigh, fail one

    WoTLk & ICC
    Almost Every tank does go for full stamina on everything, yes, I am aware that you will get slightly more passive heals via JoL & Leader of pact, but are you guys not forgeting something ? Hit does not have to be capped, but it is good think. As you will hit the boss each time and the empty space between the heals & hot ticks will be also covered by some minor selfheals, same goes for expertise ( lets assume u r dodge capped ). Each time boss does parry, u lost a chance for your weapon enchant proc ( does not matter which u did pick ) & u lost a chance to selfheal via JoL or LoP.... You might think it is nothing, as u ussualy get overhealed, but it is important in times between the heals.

    JoL / LoP is based on Max HP, true dat, BUT ! If you miss every 2nd ability or boss does parry , what next ?
    Threat ? After initial pull it is ussualy not a problem at all, even if u got full 277 geared people trying to improve their ego on your side.

    Parry haste ? As little example, go to tank valanar + other melee mob together with 0 or dodge cap expertise ... healers will have really hard time to keep you alive, same goes for many other bosses.

    Another point about not maxing stamina:
    Tank with 40k HP unbuff did down LichKing & survived it, tank with 45k unbuff hp did down lichking & survived it, tank with 40k was called a noob, cuz low hp pool.

    Imo, point of tanking is simple:
    A Have sufficient ammount of health so healers can top you up before you die even if u take more then one hit in row or healers are not able to heal you at that point
    B Once you reach A, get decent ammount of Avoidance ( dont get too much, else you would have problems with healers that heals after u take damage )
    C After you reach A & B, get as much mitigance you can, so once you actually get hit, you get hit for as less damage you can take
    D If you are healable without much stress & your HP pool is suffitient, get hit rating so you dont have to stress that much with TPS , but as well you will be able to count on your abilities - Not like your judgement or whatever else will miss and you have to wait xxx seconds for its CD
    E Get expertise soft cap, so you dont have dodges
    F Once you covered A, B, C, D & E, get more expertise, because it comes more defensive, as you will remove more parry hastes, therefor giving healers less stress & more time to react

    Overall Opinion:
    The world of warcraft is and will always be based on luck, wheter it comes to finding good people to play with, or RNG fights, random drops & roll( or whatever ) & tons of others things.
    BUT, as raid performance goes, you should always try to remove as many random factors you can:

    Example:
    Deathwisper, new adds appeared, rogue that can tot u or hunter is MCed, u rely on your self only, therefor each miss or parry can lead to a DPS dying.
    Saurfang - Oh shit, my taunt missed - or he did parry me & I did not avoid, he had 90% power & he 2 shoted me in less then a sec.
    LK - I got shambling on me, second appear, my taunt missed, my avenger shield missed, by judgement missed, healers healing infest, even if hunter / rogue ToTed / Mded me I was unable to keep aggro, shamb came to one healer & shockwaved em all.

    Those are bad scenarios, but it happends & it can cost you precious time, effort & everything else, just because u wanted to have 3k more useless HP

    P.S.: Sorry if that post was too long, complicated, for someone perhaps wrong upside down, my english sux & perhaps I am trolling or whatever, but if you did not catch the points, then there is nothing else I can do.

  3. #63
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    You've made a lot of invalid points there. You, like most others overrate avoidance. Yes it gives you longer to live, but deaths occur in 5 second window frames; sometimes even less. It's the ability to take those 3 hits in a row because eventually it will happen unless you have 99%+ avoidance. IT WILL HAPPEN. and it shouldn't be a wipe because RNG occured and your tank got hit past his EH threshold. If you stack Stam+Armor however, damage becomes consistant. As you gear up you push 3 hits in to 4, 4 hits into 5 ect. Another point is that healers are going to heal you regardless of whether you take damage. It's how the ICC tanking-healing module works. Healers aren't going to stop their cast midway because they saw that you didn't take damage. Threat should never be the responsibility of the tanks gearing choice minus a MH weapon, you're job is to #1 Take the least amount of damage as possible then #2 Hold aggro. Not the other way around.

  4. #64
    Definitely agree, however capping expertise for parry hasting is fun! I only have 11 expertise in my normal set, although passively hit capped from gear, gemming for it is a complete waste. A dead tank does NO threat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raij View Post
    Definitely agree, however capping expertise for parry hasting is fun! I only have 11 expertise in my normal set, although passively hit capped from gear, gemming for it is a complete waste. A dead tank does NO threat.
    You really think that 2k HP difference because u geming all stamina will save your ass on parry haste or when healers cannot heal ye or something ? Ok, try following : Go to Ruby Sanctum, tank fire realm, in heroic mode.
    1st try tank with 2 stamina trinkets & whatever ring & HP flask ( in my case 62kish )

    2nd try use 245 armor trinket , trinket from onyxia, 245 onyx ring & flask of lesser resistance, I got , so am on lets say 6k hp less.

    In first case, it is so very often to be 2 shotted, healers really stressing out , continously spaming me and even then it is questionable

    In second case, I barely need to use cooldowns, if ever, because I barely get hit & either it will be melee or fire breath, I reduced melee by 72ish % ( + additional raid buffs / debuffs ) & reduced fire damage by aprox 50%.

    So it was easier to survive or to be healed with 6k less HP. Fail one of yours, sir

    Test 2:
    Pure melee boss, Saurfang
    Tank with 72kish hp ( 30% ), going stamina all the way & everywhere dead within 1 sec, just because he was low on cds, mytigance, avoidance
    Me, equiped max avoidance & mytigance & CDs, 4p, salvation, 245 trinket, gunship trinket... and gues what ?! In entire fight, even tho I had 60kish HP only (12k less then other tank ), I never droped under 35% of my HP. So lets assume I would have gone full stamina, but droping from 100% to 0% in no time..

    And I could continue

    U guys even realize that by for example gemming pure stamina u gain 2-3k hp max ? And that 2-3k, even 10k HP will not save you from dying if you or other people in raid plays wrong !

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by amity View Post
    You've made a lot of invalid points there. You, like most others overrate avoidance. Yes it gives you longer to live, but deaths occur in 5 second window frames; sometimes even less. It's the ability to take those 3 hits in a row because eventually it will happen unless you have 99%+ avoidance. IT WILL HAPPEN. and it shouldn't be a wipe because RNG occured and your tank got hit past his EH threshold. If you stack Stam+Armor however, damage becomes consistant. As you gear up you push 3 hits in to 4, 4 hits into 5 ect. Another point is that healers are going to heal you regardless of whether you take damage. It's how the ICC tanking-healing module works. Healers aren't going to stop their cast midway because they saw that you didn't take damage. Threat should never be the responsibility of the tanks gearing choice minus a MH weapon, you're job is to #1 Take the least amount of damage as possible then #2 Hold aggro. Not the other way around.
    And is it not what I am saying ? ))))))))))))))))))
    1) I said, get sufficient HP Pool ( u dont really need 100000 HP to make RS 25 HC ?
    2) Get some avoidance ( RNG will always be there & dont get too much ! Balance it, you need to be hit after all anyways )
    3) Get mitigance - Armor, resistance, block value, absorbs etc - Once you get hit, you want to be hit for low ammount, obvious
    4) If you got 123, get hit - u wanna count on your abilities
    5) If you got 1234, get expertise, but dont end only !at soft cap, because then parry will be more dangerous
    6) If you got 12345, customize it to your like, u wanna get more useless hp, go for it.. u wanna do more DPS, go for it, u wanna have more bvalue, go for it, more crit, go for it, choise is yours

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    Expertise, Hit, and your Threat. What it means to all Tanks. (Current for 3.3.3)

    I'm sorry but you obviously don't know how parry works. Having enough expertise does nothing to increase the number of parry. Many of your points have the same false assumptions.

    @ the poster before you (blondiie I think?). I disbelieve anything about your stated experience with the 72k tank dying in under 1 second (or even taking less damage than you). First you stated he did not have CDs and you did, so we are obviously comparing apples and oranges off the bat. Next, if his gear is good enough to have 72k hp, he also has a healthy amount of dodge/parry/armor etc to put him into the dr curves. You cannot gem and enchant iLvl 200 blues to that hp.
    "he doens't need healing, he doesn't need healing, he doesn't nee-WHAOSHIT!wtf was that man!". Please stop leaning on TDR. -Teng

  8. #68
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    Ahh yes, another new registrant coming in, misusing terminology, and coming up with "grand ideas" that all the tanks on this forum have never considered. /facepalm

    How much health is "enough"? Is enough health the amount that a tank had for world first LKHM kill, and no more? Obviously that raid completed the encounter with a tank that had X health, so shoulnd't everyone be able to? No. More health will always mean you're easier to keep alive, there is no point in current gear where you have "enough". Unless your raid has killed HM LK on 25, you're in no position to say when you have enough, keep stacking it. Unless you're facerolling your way through and farming all the Heroic content in the game weekly, there is always a challenging encounter ahead that will require the most EH you can muster. You're also confused about the definition of EH, or "effective health". It doesn't just mean stamina, it means armor/resistance as well, or "mitigation" (not "mytigance").

    U guys even realize that by for example gemming pure stamina u gain 2-3k hp max ?
    I'll concede that. On the flipside though, what do you gain by "balanced" gemming/chanting? A fraction of a % of avoidance? Maybe some hit/expertise to boost your threat by a fraction of a %. Neither offer as much benefit in progression situations as that 2-3K HP, so stam is still the best way to go.

    5) If you got 1234, get expertise, but dont end only !at soft cap, because then parry will be more dangerous"
    It's great that you are aware of parry haste, althoug you seem to misunderstand how it works, as it doesn't become "more dangerous" as you reach the dodge cap. If the boss parry hastes, then every point of expertise will help reduce parries, all the way to cap. That being said, do you know how many bosses in WoTLK have parry haste enabled? Here is the list:
    http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...rb_v=viewtopic

    That's 2 bosses in all of ICC, one of which doesn't matter because the bosses physical attacks are of little concern, and I'll concede that sindy can be a little dangerous when she parries. Halion also parry hastes, and there is a nice thread about expertise capping specifically for that encounter, while maintaining as much EH as possible, so you're not telling anyone anything we don't already know.

    Please don't use DBS as an example when talking about tank survival, he hits like a little girl using foam swords for weapons. You could wear 1/4 dps gear and survive him on 25 HM mode (I have).

    Most tanks already throw on threat gear for farm fights, we don't wear our EH gear. We swap to dps trinkets, older tank gear gemmed for threat, maybe a few dps pieces etc. etc., but you have to keep your best set, the one gemmed/chanted entirely for EH, ready to go when you get to the progression encounters. If you have no more progression encounters left, by all means, gear how you like. If you're at that level you don't need to come here for advice anyway.
    Last edited by Akeber; 09-27-2010 at 11:59 AM.

  9. #69
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    I am very new to tanking, but I would bet that a good keybinds layout triumphs all over hit and expertise. I have seen so many horrible set ups on the forums, I have no idea how people are hitting things when they need them. Just put a little effort into keybinds, its not rocket science really. And it goes a long way.

  10. #70
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    I just realized someone jumped in and necro'd this thread from like 3 months ago. I'm glad a bunch of community members jumped in for me. Really I don't have the time to correct all the things said by Bondiee in their post, but I will correct this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bondiee View Post
    Parry haste ? As little example, go to tank valanar + other melee mob together with 0 or dodge cap expertise ... healers will have really hard time to keep you alive, same goes for many other bosses.
    I have dodge cap expertise and have done just what you described with absolutely no problem or complaints from my healers. Even before the buff increased. Not to mention Council is not a fight with parry haste.

    Please get your facts straight before presenting false opinions to confuse others with.
    There is something so appealing about backhanding someone across the face with a shield.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bondiee View Post
    It is well known that tanks always tended to go full stamina, stamina everywhere, ignoring most of other stats. Some time ago in TBC I were in an guild with my warrior tank & there was another warrior tank. He basicaly did go all stam, as most of the people did and I aimed for crushing immunity, which was wise choice to do , obviously. Either way, he was taken as MT ussualy because he had aprox 4k hp more then me, and in most cases he was taking huge spikes, and I was told when I get more HP, i Will MT... sigh, fail one
    you mean passive uncrushability?
    why? you didn't like shield block?

    iirc, you had to give up quite a bit to get there passively.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodasafa View Post
    So I should just mindlessly stack stamina?
    Stacking stamina is not mindless unless you do not understand why you should be doing it. Tanks that do not min/max their survival by stacking stamina (or armor where available) through gems and enchants are only doing their raid a disservice. There have been numerous reports from highly respected community members here on tankspot, in world ranked guilds that tanked Heroic ToGC 25 with as little as 40 hit rating and are now also in Heroic ICC 25 with as little as 16 expertise rating. These tanks are working with DPS that are pulling 10k+ on most fights and doing just fine without reaching the hit cap or the expertise soft cap.
    I just realized someone jumped in and necro'd this thread from like 3 months ago. I'm glad a bunch of community members jumped in for me. Really I don't have the time to correct all the things said by Bondiee in their post, but I will correct this.


    ************************************************** ************************************************** *

    I have dodge cap expertise and have done just what you described with absolutely no problem or complaints from my healers. Even before the buff increased. Not to mention Council is not a fight with parry haste.

    Please get your facts straight before presenting false opinions to confuse others with.
    Lets get things clear, shall we ?

    First, you tell that STACKING MINDLESSSLY STAMINA is good !
    U say it in a way, so most of people understand it : GO FULL STAMINA ! Or am I wrong ?

    ************************************************** ************
    now, lets take a closer look @ your own profile

    21 gem slots over all
    None of them gives you bonus if you put in only stamina gems

    Now, if you put only stamina there, you get following:
    21x30 = 630 stamina = 6300 hp ( no talents / buffs )
    You will / might be lacking some hit, expertise, dodge, parry, or whatever.

    Now, if you match every socket bonus with 10xx+15stam
    519 stamina = 5190 hp ( no talents / buffs )
    And you can get whatever stat you desire !

    So the difference is 1110 Health ( no talents / no buffs )

    Since I do not know how exactly the buff scaling strings works, I will keep quiet, but i assume that after buffs you are at around 1400-1500 difference.

    You might want to add icc 30%, and the difference overall is what ? 1820 hp ? 2k hp ?

    ************************************************** ****

    My question 1:
    Will that 2k hp save you ?

    My question 2:
    Was it worth it to go all stamina, even tho you will miss or get parried often ? Or you traded it for avoidance or mitigation ?

    My question 3:
    Even tho, that you have said in 1st topic, that stacking all stamina is BEST, why do you have ARMOR pene gems in your gear and one expertise + stam ?
    *** Was it to improove aggro or to increase your DPS ? Or is it for PVP in Pve gear or ?

    My question 4:
    Why were you so very disrespectfull, saying somewhere : All i see is new registrant coming & saying bull****s ?
    **** Might have been someone else, I am bit tired and I did read too many things, if so, /apologize



    ************************************************** *************
    To get it clear & short, you are respected tank in a good guild, which means many people will do as you say, even tho you are simply not right. You are saying that going all stamina is good, forgeting everything else, even tho the difference in final hp pool is very minor, and even then, after writing all that, you do not stand behind what you have said and doing it differently, because you do not gem full stamina your self. Perhaps because you did not need to ?

    Self explanatory ?
    Last edited by Bondiee; 10-04-2010 at 02:48 AM.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by marklar View Post
    you mean passive uncrushability?
    why? you didn't like shield block?

    iirc, you had to give up quite a bit to get there passively.
    To get 104.xx, cannot remember, it was not only about spaming shield block, now, was it ? Even shieldblock did not give you crush imunity.

    edit: 102.4 i think it was, still not sure
    Last edited by Bondiee; 10-04-2010 at 01:48 AM.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bondiee View Post
    Lets get things clear, shall we ?First, you tell that STACKING MINDLESSSLY STAMINA is good !
    U say it in a way, so most of people understand it : GO FULL STAMINA ! Or am I wrong ?
    Yes I suggest stacking stamina because it has been proven time and time again on these forums for most of this expansion (close to 2 years) that it is the correct way to gem.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bondiee View Post
    My question 1:
    Will that 2k hp save you ?
    Yes it will because though the difference looks smaller without the buffs/talents you left out, its actually a huge difference with the talents, buffs, and the ICC 30% buff. You cannot multiply dodge or armor with that 30% only health.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bondiee View Post
    My question 2:
    Was it worth it to go all stamina, even tho you will miss or get parried often ? Or you traded it for avoidance or mitigation ?
    I don't miss often, not enough that I notice or loose aggro because of it.

    The mitigation I could get is NONE, because you cannot gem for Armor which is the only source of mitigation.

    Avoidance gains are minimal and less than health gains for the exact reason I explained above. You get a buff to your health only in ICC and you actually get a debuff for your avoidance via Chill of the Throne.

    So why would you build up something your getting nerfed in (avoidance) when you can build up something your getting a 30% buff in (health)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bondiee View Post
    My question 3:
    Even tho, that you have said in 1st topic, that stacking all stamina is BEST, why do you have ARMOR pene gems in your gear and one expertise + stam ?
    *** Was it to improove aggro or to increase your DPS ? Or is it for PVP in Pve gear or ?
    You looked at my armory when I was on a off raiding day. I was using my 2 pc gloves and shoulders with armor pen gems for ARENA and BG's to get the 2pc +20% Shield Slam and Shockwave damage. I change those gems back to stamina when its raid time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bondiee View Post
    My question 4:
    Why were you so very disrespectfull, saying somewhere : All i see is new registrant coming & saying bull****s ?
    **** Might have been someone else, I am bit tired and I did read too many things, if so, /apologize
    Lets take a look at what I said.
    The active community members that answer questions here day in and day out are becoming just a bit tired of the uniformed nonsense new registrants are posting. It becomes hard for us to tell if were just getting trolled or if someone is genuinely misinformed and needs help. In either case the active community members will respond discrediting these false posts so that others do not become confused about the facts.

    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and we respect that here. But publish nonsense and we will call you on it.
    I fail to see how that was out of line or disrespectful.
    Last edited by Bodasafa; 10-04-2010 at 09:13 AM.
    There is something so appealing about backhanding someone across the face with a shield.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bondiee View Post
    To get 104.xx, cannot remember, it was not only about spaming shield block, now, was it ? Even shieldblock did not give you crush imunity.

    edit: 102.4 i think it was, still not sure
    There is a total of ONE boss in all of Wrath of the Lich King where being block capped will help you. Heroic 25 player Anub in ToC. Its specifically for making the adds easier to tank.

    That's it.
    There is something so appealing about backhanding someone across the face with a shield.

  16. #76
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    I just realized that most of this is probably moot.

    We have a 4.0 dropping in a matter of weeks and Cata coming in a matter of months. So realistically with things as easy as they are in normal/old raids you can probably gem spirit and it wouldn't matter to much with high end gear. If your still working heroic raids then it applies.

    Though what I posted is correct currently, do what you want, it will change soon anyway.
    There is something so appealing about backhanding someone across the face with a shield.

  17. #77
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    but even in cata, unless they really change ratios (i don't see this happening) for avoidance, as well as change the way healing is going to work (it is to some extent, but higher EH still seems like a more steady way to keep yourself alive over hoping for avoidance streaks while the healer tops you off), EH should still be the way to go in cataclysm until proven wrong. it's been the case since pre-bc, it was the case in tbc (except brutallus, but that was a gear cap issue--you couldn't gem/gear enough stam to survive more than 2 hits anyways), and was absolutely predominant in wotlk especially icc (with the exception of the add tanks on anub'arak).

    Boda has done nothing to be disrespectful to you bondiee, but you looking up his armory to try to attack his personal character is however something that is disrespectful. This isn't the wow forums, you don't get e-peen points by flashing your armory achievements. What boda has stated in this thread is 100% accurate and no amount of anecdotal evidence that you provide will prove it wrong in this current state of the expansion. Health > avoidance, and in terms of gemming, rotation > small gains from gemming which in turn lower your EH. something you cannot afford to do if you're pushing hardmodes as progression.

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  18. #78
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    grrr.... confused
    Last edited by Loganisis; 10-04-2010 at 10:47 AM. Reason: oops
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    Ok, seems you are out of arguments, fair enough. I did not come here to troll anyways, but seems you dont even put things together.

    Very quickly.

    The 2 000 HP ammount is AFTER TALENTS, BUFFS and ICC BUFF EVEN !

    Armor is only source of mitigation ( your words )? Are you very sure ?

    Interesting that you do actually regem back to go full stamina.. Some people are able to kill endgame boss with 60k hp, but you need 5k more ? Even tho you got better gear then them ? I mean, you got more avoidance, mitigance, armor etc.. Will your stamina hunger ever end ? Or if you had a chance you would have gone 250 000 for Lichking normal ?

    About 102.4. Seems you did not catch it, I said, in TBC almost everyone was going for stamina, ignoring crushes, therefor being less helpfull to raids.

    And in WOTLK, almost everyone, apart few enlightened people, goes full stamina, ignoring hit, expertise etc, making it just harder for them selfs.


    Would you benefit more from corpse tongue on Saurfang, valanar, gunship, rotface, festergut, putricide, or would you actually benefit more from stamina trinket ? Would you benefit more from hit on deatwhisper, valithria, lichking, halion ad tanking, or you need more stamina ? I tanked TOGC since I had 37k unbuffed paladin, tanked ICC 25 since 39k unbuffed, heroic since 42k unbuffed with 0%, and I never had problems with having too low hp, and my healers were not overgeared either.

    Yet, I have seen, 100s of different tanks, in same raid with me, having whatsoever gear compositions you can think of, and they take more damage, keep less aggro % so on..................

    *********************************
    You, have stated: That going FULL stamina is ONLY & Best way to play a tank class.

    I, am stating, that BALANCING every aspect of your tanking by BALACING the stats, which is MITIGANCE, AVOIDANCE, HEALTH, TPS & even DPS, if applicable is a best & wise choice to go.

    In other words, when you get certain ammount of stamina, you dont need more. When you get certain ammount of hit, you dont need more, when you get certain ammoun of avoidance, spell power, mana regen, crit rate, haste, armor pen, and whatever u think of, you do not need more.

    Therefor, stating:

    MAXING ONE STAT IS ONLY AND BEST WAY and it is ONLY THAT WAY, is wrong.

    Amen
    *********************************

    This is my last post here, because some people will never open their eyes, yet they are more respected & blind crowds will follow.

    It goes same in real life, politics, media, and everything.

    In TV they will say, do something this way, it is best & blind crowds will most likely do it. Later on, TV will apologize : Sorry, it was not best, if you do it that way, it is slightly better. And blind crowds will be like, Oh My God, RIGHT ! Why were I so stupid not to realize it my self & do it right ?

    Even worse example:
    Some time in the past, someone said that planet is round, not flat... They killed him... What happened later ? OH, crap, planet is really round...

    Bad way to explain it, but this is how situation is

    And yes, I will stay behind my words, ALWAYS, even if I were only one thinking that. Because I am sure.

    Ty for your time, farewell, warrior. May the spirit of Ragefire enlight your blinded mind !

    My question 4:
    Why were you so very disrespectfull, saying somewhere : All i see is new registrant coming & saying bull****s ?
    **** Might have been someone else, I am bit tired and I did read too many things, if so, /apologize

    See taht too, I said, might have been SOMEONE else.
    Last edited by Bondiee; 10-04-2010 at 12:03 PM.

  20. #80
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    339
    Quote Originally Posted by Bondiee View Post
    To get 104.xx, cannot remember, it was not only about spaming shield block, now, was it ? Even shieldblock did not give you crush imunity.

    edit: 102.4 i think it was, still not sure
    well actually, yes it was about spamming shield block. i think perhaps you misunderstood some of the tanking mechanics in TBC. shield block was on a 5s CD with 2 charges, and gave you a +75% chance to block. it's pretty easy to see how that eliminated crushing blows in most encounters, right?

    i only recall a few encounters were bosses swung fast enough and hit hard enough so that crushes even came into play for warriors. even if you had an uncrushable set, it was something you'd lug around and only put on in certain circumstances, not use as your main set of tanking gear. you had to give up a LOT of stats to get uncrushable passively.

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