Why I'm Rerolling to a Warrior in Cataclysm (PvP Related)...

[Goins2754]

Greetings everyone,

I love warriors & always have. Though, when I tried to play one in WoW I discovered two things.

1) I don't have the skills to manage all of these abilities they have. Seriously, a warrior is like a Swiss Army Knife on steroids.

2) I hate getting beaten by healing classes, especially protection paladins. Yes, a warrior can probably hold his own if played well. Reference #1.

Thanks to the recent changes announced for rage, I'm thinking of picking up the warrior again. Let me explain...

1) I've been playing WoW now for a few years & I'd like to think that in that time I've developed the skills necessary to learn to play the warrior class well.

2) There are several new reasons that I think warriors will have it easier in combat against healers.

2a) The new set rage per hit will help undergeared warriors with rage generation. As I am a casual player, I will probably never see Wrathful Gladiator gear & therefore will probably struggle (or so I'm told) versus healing classes. I think this rage will help all of the less-than-optimally geared warriors out there.

2b) The increased incoming rage will ensure warriors have the ability to perform more rage based attacks. This will increase overall outgoing damage. This may even allow less-than-optimally played warriors to overpower healing.

2c) The new changes to avoidance (they promised us we would get hit more often) will ensure that my most hated matchup (warrior vs paladin) will see more warrior damage. More hits equals more rage equals more damage.

2d) We have been promised lower health pools overall. This means that while all the damage is being increased & the health pools will not grow as much, the damage done by the warrior will be more lethal. This new increased damage could possibly do large damage equal to sizable percentages of the opposition's health pool.

I'd like to know what you think about this. Is my theorizing on the right track? Do you feel that the incoming changes will help warriors in PvP? Honestly, I love the warrior in PvE but the PvP aspect has really pushed me away from the class. I'm hoping the Cataclysm changes will reel me back in.

As a side note, I'm not bashing protection paladins. I was just noting that I really hate fighting them as a protection warrior because I almost never win. I'm not saying they're overpowered, I'm not QQing about warriors. I'm just stating the fact that I struggle against them.

Thanks for your input!

[Tansit]

Bad theory, since every other class is changing as well. Not to mention the fact that Blizzard has stated that all classes will have more stamina in Cataclysm.

Warriors damage is already lethal with the correct gear, to the point that it would be a miracle of Blizzard actually ignored it and didn't give warriors a damage nerf. For Arms, anyways.

I've never had a problem with managing the warrior skills, but rather the 8-10 macros that I need to actually PvP. The class was fairly playable in PvP before it was nerfed every patch of the current xpac. Now Blizzard assumes that, if you are a PvP warrior, that you're running 3v3s or 5v5s with a 2k arena score. Maybe when Warrior PvP is actually accessible to someone besides an experienced veteran, then it will be bearable again. Until then, don't get your hopes up.

[Destruyen]

the only way to do good dmg in arenas as a warrior is pve gear.

[gacktt]

You'll get your ass handed down to you for at least the first 6 months of the expansion regardless of your gear.

You have to pve as a pvp warrior.

Casters are far easier to play, give better results and have more forgiving mechanics and latency.

That said good luck on your cata quest.

[kolben]

Arms has some changes that have the potential to be strong in PVP, particularly peels.

It's hard to say what the changes will mean for gear dependency for Warriors without seeing what PVP gear is available and seeing some numbers on the damage we can do compared to other 2-hander plate classes.

Peels and pressure are about 50/50 on the priority list for any kind of group play as a Warrior - I'm confident we'll do well in the Peel department and we'll honestly have to wait for the end of Beta to have any idea what the pressure a low-Arp Arms Warrior can do.

[Barta]

We have been promised lower health pools overall

Where are you finding this information? All the blue posts I've seen have said the exact opposite. Just curious as it may sway your thinking.

[Goins2754]

Lower in comparison with how health pools grew in BC & Wrath. I'll have to find the quote and don't have time this second, but they were talking about reigning in health pool growth a little bit. Looking at my statement, it was pretty poorly worded. Sorry about that.

[incredibleman]

You'll get your ass handed down to you for at least the first 6 months of the expansion regardless of your gear.

You have to pve as a pvp warrior.

Casters are far easier to play, give better results and have more forgiving mechanics and latency.

That said good luck on your cata quest.

I have one of each class except mage and DK.
1) Casters are definitely easier to play in general, but in my experience paladin has been the easiest to level and the easiest to pvp with. Warriors are quite difficult to play well in comparison.
2) When you start to pvp (or start to pvp with an unfamiliar class, or even unfamiliar action bar setup), you will get your ass handed to you. Your opponents are much more skilled and creative than any NPC, and they are likely also more experienced AND better geared than you. It hurts the ego, but you have to suck it up. The long term results are worth it.
3) Any logical reason you may have for playing warrior is garbage. If you are thinking of playing warrior for any kind of logical reason, don't bother giving yourself the grief. The only reason to play a warrior is because WARRIORS ARE THE SHIT, I would say manly but there are women who play warrior. Straight women, even. Not sure why, but the warrior mentality is more hardcore. Seriously, you have to admit that a tauren warrior is the most bitchin' looking class WoW has. Maybe cause of the shoulders. I am a prot warrior, but titan's grip looks pretty wicked when fury warriors are dual wielding. Anyway, as a warrior in PVP, you can't blink or travel form or disappear out of combat. A warrior leaves combat only through victory or death. This is as it should be. When you are not playing WoW, watch some "World's Strongest Man" competitions or highland games or something that involves big hairy men lifting big bloody heavy objects and hurling them into the sun with loud roars and grunts and farts. If you don't have a TV, put on your heaviest boots and go crush bugs on the sidewalk while roaring like a lion. Go to the gym and take up weightlifting, and I don't meaning dancing with legwarmers and headbands and 3 pound dumbbells, I mean deadlifts and squats and bench presses with dangerously large weights. Then after you have shot your spine out your ass trying to lift a 900 lb. barbell, go to an all you can eat buffet and shove the little people out of your way with a crazed look in your eye. And grow a beard.

[incredibleman]

Oh and by the way I agree with the whole action-bar-overload-too-many-spells comment. If you only had one stance, it would be simpler, and that is why I am only a prot warrior and I never ever leave defensive stance. I am too dumb to stance dance - but I still do well tanking and in pvp. And it makes my spell options much simpler than those of my druid (although still not as simple as paladin which is "push the one that lights up first").

[Maverickroll]

I love Warriors. I do. My main is an Arms Warrior.

That being said, do not roll a Warrior.

I know, I know, most classes are getting some nerfs coming up. But right now, you really can't out DPS virtually all the healing classes, especially Paladins and Druids, just when you get them half dead or close to death they come up with LoH or massive Thorns giving them time to heal back to full, while you have to keep whittling away. Rinse, repeat.

Not to mention god damn Frost Mages and just about any Druid. Frost Mages have pretty much an unlimited supply of Roots, Snares or Immobolizes that will stop you in your tracks. Even if you macro Intercept, and even if you roll Human / Gnome, that gives you 2 Trinket breaks and 1 Fear / Snare break.

A typical fight with a Frost Mage?

Mage casts snare.

Warrior breaks it, charges/intercepts/intervenes/leaps in.

Mage casts root.

Warrior breaks it, same as above.

Mage blinks.

Warrior closes distance as above.

Mage snares or roots again.

Warrior is down to maybe 1 break left, depending upon spell.

After that? You're screwed. Cause the Mage can keep on doing that all day long, not to mention the Frost water pet can do it, itself (or at least one version).

Your only chance is, when you do close the gap and get in their face, pray to god you can Throwdown, Smash'em, and do some big time crits with MS and Overpower before they Blink away or snare you again.


Now for druids? Don't even bother. Seriously. Thorns, both versions, will just keep on Rooting you in place, again, and again, and again. All the while a Boomkin could stand from afar and beam you to death. You'll run out of snare/root breaks and oh look, the Druid can just pop thorns time after time.

Other classes, you do stand a better chance, especially against other melee (War, DK, Rogue, etc). Feral Druids right now present a problem because their DPS is.. high. And most when close to death will pop Bear form and tank you to death.

If you're looking for Arena pvp, it might not be as bad as BG's, WG or TB but in a BG? Everywhere you look.. god damn Frost Mages, and Druids. Don't forget Warlocks and their three million ways to Fear you but hey, at least you're still moving, right? ;\

*sigh* I hate Mages.. With a passion.

[incredibleman]

Every class has it's own bane... yeah, frost mages are a warrior's kryptonite. I too hate them. But last night I pvp'd with my warrior and had my way with a couple of mages... mmm... squishy and yummy...

[Chewy]

me, being fury spec.. there are a lot of classes that can kill us easily.. including frost mage, druids, and shammy's.. it's definetly depressing to watch you hit the other person maybe 5 times before it's over. i barely have any stuns.. intercept twice, leap once, and charge once. while mages and druids have s**t to spam. it's like the above said. you better hope you crit them for 1/4 of their health because 2-3 hits is all your gonna get before they run off again or bubble.

we rape in pve though >=]

[Destruyen]

we rape in pve though >=]

wut?

[Crittable]

3) Any logical reason you may have for playing warrior is garbage. If you are thinking of playing warrior for any kind of logical reason, don't bother giving yourself the grief. The only reason to play a warrior is because WARRIORS ARE THE SHIT, I would say manly but there are women who play warrior. Straight women, even. Not sure why, but the warrior mentality is more hardcore. Seriously, you have to admit that a tauren warrior is the most bitchin' looking class WoW has. Maybe cause of the shoulders. I am a prot warrior, but titan's grip looks pretty wicked when fury warriors are dual wielding. Anyway, as a warrior in PVP, you can't blink or travel form or disappear out of combat. A warrior leaves combat only through victory or death. This is as it should be. When you are not playing WoW, watch some "World's Strongest Man" competitions or highland games or something that involves big hairy men lifting big bloody heavy objects and hurling them into the sun with loud roars and grunts and farts. If you don't have a TV, put on your heaviest boots and go crush bugs on the sidewalk while roaring like a lion. Go to the gym and take up weightlifting, and I don't meaning dancing with legwarmers and headbands and 3 pound dumbbells, I mean deadlifts and squats and bench presses with dangerously large weights. Then after you have shot your spine out your ass trying to lift a 900 lb. barbell, go to an all you can eat buffet and shove the little people out of your way with a crazed look in your eye. And grow a beard.

This had me laughing. Funny stuff.

[Rennadrel]

Warriors are getting nerfed for PvP next patch, so any reason that screams picking the FOTM class is going out the window with all the huge nerfs to Arms.

[Destruyen]

Warriors are getting nerfed for PvP next patch, so any reason that screams picking the FOTM class is going out the window with all the huge nerfs to Arms.

you do know that this thread is almost a year old and the op hasn't posted in it since april right?

[Goins2754]

Hello, everyone. I'm the OP. I thought I'd come here and post about how my reroll went...

So, the beta builds were awesome. Warriors got a ton of self healing. I was seeing videos of warriors doing things that I never thought possible. I saw a warrior on YouTube solo Magtheridon. Soloing was one of my major interests, and while I don't need my class of choice to be the absolute best, I'd still like to be able to do more than the average person. Also, being able to put out decent DPS along with some decent self healing, I felt, was a nice balance. I felt like even though I might not have the skill to charge stunlock a healer and get the win, at least I could have a reasonable stalemate with my self heals and some reasonable use of CDs and interrupts.

Then the self-healing nerf came. I was pretty upset about that because the new self-heals were the main reason I picked up the warrior class again. I was very sad. I almost quit after that and went back to my paladin. I stuck with it, though, because even though I did have the self heals I once had the warrior class was a lot of fun.

A month or so ago, though, I finally got to 85 and started fighting against people with lots of skill in their class. Now granted, those people should beat be handily. Here I am, in a new class with not much gear going against people who've been playing their classes for quite a long time. I was losing so bad. It was frustrating. I thought arena would be my savior since I could be paired against people of equal skill / gear and not have to worry about getting rolled in a BG.

After my short stint in arena, I went back to my paladin. Warrior, for me, was a huge headache. I don't know if healers got buffed since beta or what (I don't really watch the healers' patch notes) but they feel damn near unkillable. I do all I can do in my little bit of skill I have and yet most of them can /dance and laugh at me. Not to mention, the other classes kite me (hunter, mage) or stunlock me (rogue). I mean, it's a brutal world in the arena for a warrior.

Yeah, I know a lot of people will say that my 2s partner should be helping more, but we're a casual team. We just play to have fun and we're content with a really low rating if it means that we're fighting others with really low ratings and having fun. But even double mage teams of really low rating or, god forbid, double healer teams are just ridiculous. I mean, what am I supposed to do against a double healer when I'm a fury or prot warrior with a healing teammate? We just waste 45 minutes of our time watching the other team heal.

So, like I said, I went back to my paladin. Sure, I might have the same annoying 45 min battles against double healer, but at least I feel like I'm playing my class well. With warrior, I always feel like "I wonder what I should have done better." No offense to the paladin community, but with my paladin I feel like if I pick the right blessing / seal and use a decent rotation then I'm doing pretty well. Also, I can beat hunters usually.

What have I learned from this experience? Mostly that warriors take a ton of skill to be played really well. Also, that I shouldn't jump on bandwagons so eagerly (especially during betas). Also, I've gained a lot of respect for the amazing warrior PvP community out there.