Unsure about how to handle a trialist

[Zorzil]

Hi all, just hoping to get some opinions on this as right now I've got mixed feelings on how to react to this situation that recently came up.

I'm a long-standing member and fairly recently appointed officer of a guild working its way through ICC25 (currently 10/12 and making slow but steady progress on Sindragosa). I was the guild's main tank from the start of SSC/TK onwards through to SWP although we since dropped the notion of a single main tank in Wrath and went for a "tanking core" instead, which I'm quite thankful for. We've had some attendance issues lately that halted our progression for a while but we seem to be getting past it now, more or less.

My issue stems from a recently recruited DK tank who is currently on his trial period. I'm stuck between two mindsets of how to handle and approach this guy as he's bristling with confidence and plays well (which I'm glad to see), but I'm not sure he's got the team approach I was expecting. As far as I am aware, he was an officer and one of the "leading" tanks in his previous guild before it hit difficulties and disbanded.

The reason I'm unsure how to handle this is because I get the impression he was the other guild's counterpart of me; that he was looked to for pacing raids and generally had a more authoritative edge than the rest of the tanking core. My concerns arose because from the raids he's had with us so far, it feels like dealing with a raging bull in a china shop at times. I can't quite place whether it is raw enthusiasm or some kind of ego-driven desire to attempt to overshadow our existing tanks and make us look inadequate in comparison, like you'd possibly expect from a pick up group where you sometimes get tanks with major e-peens that'll do anything to make themselves look better than the others.

On two consecutive raids now he's been incredibly energetic about making or taking control of pulls over me or the other tanks, and the recent buffs to Icy Touch (which I hadn't seen until I encountered this guy as our previous DK tank stopped before it came in - I'm shocked how much threat that generates now) make it quite easy for him to do so.

Stuff like intercepting mobs that me or our Feral Druid have pulled with Heroic Throw/Faerie Fire before they reach us with an Icy Touch, or charging in and pulling entire rooms as I'm about to pull one pack back to the group. He suddenly pulled all of the trash before Sindragosa last night which made several people disconnect and others suffer severe frame rate drops. The previous raid he ran straight into Deathwhisper's room and pulled almost everything at once; I ended up dying attempting to take a portion of the mobs onto me as Thunderclap inadvertently hit more than I wanted.

I wouldn't consider myself slow at pulling as I'll chain pull as one group is about to die if the raid has the resources to handle it, although I am cautious after previous experiences where I've attempted to speed up our trash clears and been met by repeated wipes as the raid didn't seem to adapt well to the faster pace.

He also seems to have a bit of a penchant for pulling mobs off of other tanks; just last night I had him rip one of the two frost wyrms before Sindragosa off of me when it was at ~50%. My TPS isn't low at all (easily sustaining 12k+ on Omen with the 10% buff in place as I'm quite an aggressive tank with a Deep Wounds spec and high hit/expertise ratings) which made it all the more shocking when it happened. He was riding right below my threat on Omen the whole time then suddenly shot ahead of me and took over - possibly an Icy Touch crit? I can't say I've bothered taunting back as I don't want to appear to be some kind of ego-driven 'I TANK IT' overlord or something.

I have my concerns that this is intentional as I was chatting with another recent recruit last night over Teamspeak that knew him before and says he does it quite often, with him also having a very aggressive gearing setup like myself and that he was the highest sustained TPS tank in his previous guild (as I am in mine - as things stand we're both roughly equal ignoring burst threat on the pull). It just irks me as I aim to not intentionally pull mobs off of other tanks and apologise if I do from an unexpected Shield Slam crit or having misdirects go onto me when I'm not tanking etc.

I've always strongly believed in tanks cooling their impulses whilst on trial with an established guild so that they can get a feel for what they're potentially joining into and adapting to it, but it seems not everybody shares my view.

I really don't know whether I'm possibly just feeling threatened and making a mountain out of a molehill and need to shrug it off, or if I should attempt to assert myself as it feels like I'm being undermined.

I just have my worries about what may happen if I do try to enforce my position as I know what its like to be on the receiving end of it - during my early tanking career I was a bit too headstrong and overbearing of my ability, that I was better than everyone else. Its not really the kind of thing I want to put on somebody else if I can help it as I've learnt that people came to appreciate me far more when I dropped the ego and became the quietly confident tank I am today. That's an image I don't feel comfortable breaking, especially considering there are a few individuals on my server who are extremely boastful - to the point of polarising the majority of the server's population outside their respective guilds against them - and I don't wish to be classed alongside them.

What do you guys think? If you were in the same situation, what would you do?

[bling581]

It sounds to me that he needs to know who's in charge. Sometimes players that were previous GM's/officers/raid leaders have a hard time letting go of that control and being a follower instead. My guild had a similar problem with an ex-member that was a previous GM or officer and had a big e-peen. He thought he could do what he wanted and often argued with the officers and had an attitude. It's okay to play aggressively but pulling extra mobs or pulling off other tanks is not good. If you feel that maybe it's just you being uneasy about his aggressive attitude try brining it up casually with other guild members to see how they express their opinions of him. Chances are you're not the only one feeling the same way. If nobody else has issues with him then perhaps try to adjust, but at the same time let him know that he needs to be more conscious about pulls and letting the other tanks do their jobs and he's not the only one there.

[Darksend]

He suddenly pulled all of the trash before Sindragosa last night which made several people disconnect and others suffer severe frame rate drops. The previous raid he ran straight into Deathwhisper's room and pulled almost everything at once; I ended up dying attempting to take a portion of the mobs onto me as Thunderclap inadvertently hit more than I wanted.

You mean the things you are supposed to do with those trash pulls?

He also seems to have a bit of a penchant for pulling mobs off of other tanks; just last night I had him rip one of the two frost wyrms before Sindragosa off of me when it was at ~50%. My TPS isn't low at all (easily sustaining 12k+ on Omen with the 10% buff in place as I'm quite an aggressive tank with a Deep Wounds spec and high hit/expertise ratings) which made it all the more shocking when it happened. He was riding right below my threat on Omen the whole time then suddenly shot ahead of me and took over - possibly an Icy Touch crit? I can't say I've bothered taunting back as I don't want to appear to be some kind of ego-driven 'I TANK IT' overlord or something.

You should have, he is an APP and he should have been in blood DPSing not in frost trying to pull agro.

I have my concerns that this is intentional as I was chatting with another recent recruit last night over Teamspeak that knew him before and says he does it quite often, with him also having a very aggressive gearing setup like myself and that he was the highest sustained TPS tank in his previous guild (as I am in mine - as things stand we're both roughly equal ignoring burst threat on the pull). It just irks me as I aim to not intentionally pull mobs off of other tanks and apologise if I do from an unexpected Shield Slam crit or having misdirects go onto me when I'm not tanking etc.

I've always strongly believed in tanks cooling their impulses whilst on trial with an established guild so that they can get a feel for what they're potentially joining into and adapting to it, but it seems not everybody shares my view.

I really don't know whether I'm possibly just feeling threatened and making a mountain out of a molehill and need to shrug it off, or if I should attempt to assert myself as it feels like I'm being undermined.

I just have my worries about what may happen if I do try to enforce my position as I know what its like to be on the receiving end of it - during my early tanking career I was a bit too headstrong and overbearing of my ability, that I was better than everyone else. Its not really the kind of thing I want to put on somebody else if I can help it as I've learnt that people came to appreciate me far more when I dropped the ego and became the quietly confident tank I am today. That's an image I don't feel comfortable breaking, especially considering there are a few individuals on my server who are extremely boastful - to the point of polarising the majority of the server's population outside their respective guilds against them - and I don't wish to be classed alongside them.

What do you guys think? If you were in the same situation, what would you do?

Tanks are the de-facto leaders of pugs, and as such usually have a lot of influence in raids. When I was apping to my current guild having come from a position where I was one of the most verbal people in raids always calling things out and setting everything up and pretty much everything short of yelling at people who screwed up and loot (which I left to the officers) when I joined the guild I am in now as an APP I did not say anything that was not related to the fight, they had a much stronger leadership who actually called things out and were very vocal about things so I just shut up and did my job until I became comfortable (which did not happen until months months later when LK came out).

[Esch]

Frankly, unless you're pressed for his specific tank, I'd directly tell him he's disruptive. If he can't understand the concept that the tank corps is more important than any individual tank, he's better left behind. It's hard with tank egos, but being able to shift reponsibilities makes a lot of content easier and less frustrating. Personally, the fact he pulled threat on a frost wyrm worries me. It sounds like he was running a dps rotation without attention to his presence, thus kept up on threat. Did he actively tank the mob after the threat pull, or did he attempt to dump it (stop attacking, move to you) back to you? In the latter case, he's someone to teach. If the former, I would cease raid invites, or at least take him aside and say that you feel he's exceeding his responsibilities. You are a leader, and clearly have a say in his app, so if you don't stop him, you're accepting his behavior.

[Acheronia]

I encourage my tanks to fight for threat between the two of them during trash encounters. But during a boss encounter there's a very strict agenda of who's doing what.

Have a chat with him about this. Tell him you enjoy the competition he brings in, cause he's really good and it's a nice challenge for you. But on a boss encounter, he sticks to what he's told to. It's possible that this guy is like a puppy; very eager to please and a bit clumsy about propriety. Keep your communication with him open and honest.

[gacktt]

Tanks pulling trash agressively is good, we spend more time having people take forever to go on to trash than killing the friggin HM bosses themselves.

[Zorzil]

You mean the things you are supposed to do with those trash pulls?

Hehe, don't get me wrong - I would like to do that on a regular basis but whenever I've tried stuff like that before the raid hasn't had the best track record of coping with it which is why we go for quick successive pulls of single groups rather than one gigantic pull.

We first tried seriously streamlining trash back in Ulduar which had disastrous results until we slowed it down a bit to the kind of pace we have now, and its kind of stuck.

Did he actively tank the mob after the threat pull, or did he attempt to dump it (stop attacking, move to you) back to you? In the latter case, he's someone to teach. If the former, I would cease raid invites, or at least take him aside and say that you feel he's exceeding his responsibilities.

He kept going, hence my concern.

Cheers for the advice all, much appreciated. I guess I'm going to have to put my cares aside and lay the law down that right now he needs to cool off and stop trying to run the show when he hasn't been asked to. I wasn't sure if it was just me being a bit too sensitive towards it, but as the majority think its disruptive behaviour too...

[Taiga]

Being a Death Knight tank and recent applicant (Now raider) of my current guild I know where this guy's coming from but he's taking it too far. My GM is also one of the guilds "Main Tanks" and we have a good laugh about me pulling aggro from him on purpose during trash pulls, him being a Paladin and all.

My advice: See what this guys attitude is like. If it's playful and fun, he's just trying to impress and socialise with the guild. If he's generally quiet and keeps to himself or brags alot, he's probably doing it just to be a dick and undermine you.