+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Gems.... a new idea

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Posts
    120

    Gems.... a new idea

    So I was thinking about how Stamina gems and enchants are usually our best choice as tanks. And then I thought what could they do to make it more of a choice for us as well. I mean, DPS can choose from a few different stats and prioritise according to their play style; Str, Agi, Crit, ArP, Haste, etc.

    So it got me thinking about what type of gems could they add in Cataclysm to make tank gemming more interesting and I came up with the idea of armour gems. I don't really know how much armour they'd have to make it to make it comparable AH to the respective Stam gem. And I would totally say that they should make it either yellow or red, so we can gem for socket bonuses a bit more while still keeping part stam in these armour gems as well.

    Just kind of wanted to put that out there and hear what others thought of the idea.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    2,043
    I'd love it. Make it a yellow though and throw the + Armor / + Sta gem on Eye of Zul so that thing is finally worth something. Reds are easy with +Dodge/+Sta.

    The other thing that might be done is increase the number compared to stamina. What is the rough equivalent? 1 sta = 1.33 dodge? So sta is more valuable than dodge per point, but on the gems its exactly the opposite, gross Sta # is > than the gross Dodge #, so Sta is almost always going to be chosen over Dodge/etc because not only is it worth more, per point, but you also get 50% more per gem.

    *****

    That being said - I'm not sure how much variation there really is with DPS. For Fury it's basically stack Str unless you can hit the passive ArP cap, then stack ArP til you hit it then go back to +Str.

    Spellcasters have a little more discretion I think, but again, the choice between SP and Haste for them probably has grown into the same, a cookie cutter formula.

    So ultimately, I'm not sure the other classes are any different than tanks, they just have different types of formulas that are slightly more varied than:
    +30 Sta EXCEPT WHEN bonus >= +9 Sta/hybrid gem.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,900
    They are doing away with a lot of stats in Cata from the earlier announcements, so lets just wait and see what happens. It may not be that far fetched that they do introduce armor gems.
    RNGesus - Saving you unreliably since BC.
    http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/v...ellvarsig3.jpg

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    5,571
    The only thing with armor gems is that each ton would have to have a crap ton of armor. I'm guessing scaled up to cata levels each gem would have to be around 700 armor a pop.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    177
    Well we already have Defense/Stamina gems, Agility/Stamina gems, Dodge-Parry/Stamina gems.

    But not many tanks would consider Dodge-Parry/Stamina gems because of the diminishing returns rate and the RNG of dodge and parry. And 30 stamina is more valuable than the 20 Armor provides from the Agility/Stamina gem.

    But I think it's a great idea, defense will be gone in Cata so no more efense gemming for any tank of any level.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    WI, USA
    Posts
    2,614
    Two problems.

    First of all, the returns on armor deminish over time. The more armor you have, the less additional armor will benefit you. Thus if they are set to be equal at some point in progression i.e. tier 11, then at all future points in progression tier 12 and beyond, Stamina will win because the return on it never depreciates.

    Second...
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    The only thing with armor gems is that each ton would have to have a crap ton of armor. I'm guessing scaled up to cata levels each gem would have to be around 700 armor a pop.
    Because the scaling on it would have to be so dramatic the impact it would have on the armor of non-plate wearers would be insane. A plate wearer may increase their armor by say 20%... a cloth wearer may increase theirs by 400%.
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,900
    So the real question then would be is there an adequate solution, or will we maintain the stamina gems?
    RNGesus - Saving you unreliably since BC.
    http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/v...ellvarsig3.jpg

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    WI, USA
    Posts
    2,614
    Also the comment that "DPS has choices" is actually relatively inaccurate. In truth DPS is guided by the same principles. They have stats, and given a combination of stats their gear is best gemmed a particular way for the most optimal effect. A tank isn't really doing anything different in this regard, it is just what is optimal for them hasn't changed once they have exceeded the defense cap. DPS doesn't have choices, but rather DPS may have to change as their progress through tiers of content (such as, oh now I'm at the point where ArP is better than Strength, time to regem all those Strength gems as ArP).

    DPS doesn't have any more "choice" in the matter. DPS is trying to maximize this magical number called DPS. No matter what you are wearing, you will gem to maximize DPS. If haste is best for you, you gem for haste. If crit is best for you, you stack crit. There isn't much choice in the matter... it's what combination of these gems makes this number the biggest I can possibly make it.

    Tanks are trying to maximize this magical number called EH. It all comes down to what combination of gems makes it the biggest they can possibly make it.

    There is no real "choice" because when you run the numbers there is almost always a clear "this is the best possible combintation".
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    5,571
    Quote Originally Posted by Quinafoi View Post
    Two problems.

    First of all, the returns on armor deminish over time. The more armor you have, the less additional armor will benefit you. Thus if they are set to be equal at some point in progression i.e. tier 11, then at all future points in progression tier 12 and beyond, Stamina will win because the return on it never depreciates.

    Second...

    Because the scaling on it would have to be so dramatic the impact it would have on the armor of non-plate wearers would be insane. A plate wearer may increase their armor by say 20%... a cloth wearer may increase theirs by 400%.
    While kind of true Armor changed when WotLK came out from whne BC existed. It functions more like rating, so that at level 80 the 12kish (I think, I don't remember exactly) armor we had is now equivalent to about 30k armor now. I can only imagine the same would be true in cata. 40k armor in cata might only be like 40% reduced damage.

    Secondly, armor and stamina help eachother, so stacking armor still won't be bad, and the curves are pretty generous until you approach the limit at 75% reduction. Really my guess is that in cata they're just going to change the coeffecients.

    All of this is mere speculation though, it really depends on what they do.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    161
    Honestly I'd like to see something where instead of deciding if we will gem a mixed gem for a stamina bonus, we decide if we gem a mixed gem for a expertise/hit/strength/crit/haste bonus. The idea being that while threat shouldn't be stupidly low, we DO have to actively gear for it, to the point where a "good threat bonus" is worth gemming more threat. To see it in current gear terms it would be like gemming 10 expertise and 15 stamina for a 20 expertise bonus.

    The idea of being the one to hold threat was what interested me to start tanking rather than losing all other stats at the cost of being able to take a few massive hits to the face. I think when thinking about new ways we may be gemming, we should start to look outside the "effective health" box.

+ Reply to Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts