Toughcookie, Frost DPS
Can someone who has a knowledge of how Frost DPS works tell me anyway I can improve my character? Bearing in mind that ICC10 and ICC25 are available for me.
It's mostly though just is my gemming and enchanting correct.
Hit way over cap, expertise is under cap. I'm not positive but I don't think glyph of disease is good for Frost spec. I'm not going to go into the Frost rotation/priority system since that is covered in guides or stickies somewhere on this site or Elitist Jerks.
Decrease your hit rating for starters. Its not that it is completely wasted since it still increases the chance to hit with some of your attacks but te value of hit rating is very low after reaching 164 with your current spec. You have 520!
You havent gemmed for it but you have an enchant on your boots and a hit trinket. Replace both, the enchant with a regular AP one and the trinket with, well pretty much anything. If you have the cash to spare you can always pick up the Greatness card (strength version). Lady Deathwhisper also drops a very nice trinket but it might take a few runs to get it since many classes are compeeting for it.
In general you need to get some new gear with less hit on it since most of your hit rating comes from gear. As I said before its not that hit is bad, but having too much hit has you losing out on other stats which would be more valueble.
Mining is also a more or less useless profession as a dps, I would recomend JC or Enchanting instead but it does cost some money to level it quickly.
Also when you say your dps is low, how low is it?
To echo what others are saying - way too much hit, not enough expertise.
You want to aim to have spell hit cap during raids ( Howling Blast, Icy Touch are considered spells ), this seems a little odd, but since hit isn't wasted dual wielding, you get a decent dps boost till you hit 17% during raids. That being said, you get 3% from talents and 3% from raid buffs (assuming shadow priest / boomkin) and you're on alliance, so if you've got a draenei in your group, you can drop down another 1% leaving a grand total of 10% needed, which is about 323 rating I believe (top of my head, sorry if I'm a bit off). So looks like you need to drop around 200 hit rating as it will not be nearly as good as a number of other stats (albeit it is not 0 dps, but rather will only be helpful on your melee swings, so not worth a ton).
You are very likely going to want Fallen Crusader on your main hand (math done by awesome nerds elsewhere - like EJ forums). Razorice remains the best offhand for a single target fight, but Cinderglacier seems to pull ahead for aoe, because of the flat quick increase for howling blast damage.
Spec looks good, Gems are solid (although perhaps swap some to get some more expertise... you want to be at 26 expertise otherwise you are losing melee, OB and BS damage to dodges). Enchants are all good (well arguably greater speed on cloak is better than agi).
Glyphs - disease vs. icy touch seems like a toss up to me and most of the frost dps people. Diseases rotation is a bit less GCD locked but I think icy touch is a tiny bit better dps.
Seems to be a lot of interest in frost dps lately due to buffs and people still seem to think that its a heavy spell spec but really 65% or so of the damage on a single target with good weapons will be physical damage, so arp is still pretty great, but due to unbreakable armor and what not STR is king (as you have gemmed).
Also what does your rotation look like for single target and aoe? Messing up a rotation is pretty rough on a DK's dps...
With the change to Glyph of Disease, there are really no other reasonable glyph choices. Howling Blast was convenient to use at one time, but since we will need to keep both diseases up at all time, it loses a lot of its value. Glyph of Icy Touch was previously the best 3rd glyph to use, but the changes to GoD have pushed it off the list. - EJ Frost DK 3.3.3 forum guide
I found that this holds true because remember the addage "Diseases do no damage if they aren't up"
(this was mostly for the other replies)
Most of all check the EJ thread since it's pretty well a complete guide without doing to much cookie cutter rotations or talent builds.
Looks like my post was a week outdated! hah. Glyph of Disease it is.
I was misinformed when someone told me that I needed to hit 21% hit rating as a dual-wield.. but oh well. I'll certain replace those! It certainly frees up some options!
I picked Mining not for the DPS increase, (which it has none), but for the fact I'm a Blacksmith. :') But oh well.
I never said my DPS was low ^^ Just wanted ways to improve it, Toughcookie's DPS is certainly NOT low.
My rotation is never quite the same, but in general..
ST: IT, PS, BS, and then alternate between Pestilence (only to refresh diseases), Blood Strike and Oblierate, FS to dump RP, HB only on FF+KM when theres nothing else to use as it's ST damage is lackluster. HoW on empty GCD's.
AoE: IT, PS, Pest, HB, then alternate between Oblit, BS and Pest (for refresh diseases), HB EVERY time it's up, regardless of FF+KM.
I can hit about 9k on Raid Trash with my gear, so it's not to bad, but I know my gear is abit.. skew-wif.
And I use Glyph of Disease because I can refresh my diseases with Pestilence, a Blood Rune ability rather then only refreshing one with HB, a UH/F rune ability, with the Glyph of HB.
Interesting about the Rune of Fallen Crusader on main hand, I'll do some dummy tests! And I'll look into replacing some of those gems for expertise.. and dropping the massive ammount of hit I have. I have a Mirror of Truth in my bag that I'll use in place of my hit trinket, though I will miss the Shard of the Cyrstal Heart for my DPS Cooldown Burst.
It's interesting how before I joined my current guild, they was on the fence about Frost DK's, and 2 members who were hardcore anti-Frost, have rolled Frost DK's to give it a try since I come along. ^^
Interesting about the spell-hit cap, I noticed that I do use spells abit and that was also another reason for the high hit. I believe that with a few different enchants, replacing Black Icicle with a second Nighttime, or even a Weapon from ICC10, will do me some good.
Thanks for all the advice! You've all helped me massively. Pat yourself on the back.
Also, can someone tell me the exact number I'll need to get expertise cap with my current spec?
Last edited by Charonites; 03-31-2010 at 12:55 PM.
I think you need about 173 expertise rating from gear/gems, which is 21 expertise... you get 5 from talents. (For a total of 26 on the character sheet)
My reading today would indicate that Rune of FC doesn't need to be on the main hand, but RI should be on your faster weapon with FC on the other. Test it out for sure.
Changing professions is usually one of the latter things people do to maximize dps, but it's certainly not necessary. Being able to help fund your costs for raiding or crafting professions come first. I refuse to give up herbalism on my druid because it's just too awesome picking flowers in flight form
Originally Posted by Charonites
I'm not positive, but for DW Frost I don't think it hurts going past the 8% melee cap, in fact you might want to where it would be a complete waste for 2handers. I know for Enhancement Shamans Rawr tells me to spell hit cap WITH raid buffs (imp FF/Misery/Heroic Presence), but I'm not sure if that applies to DW Frost as well. I've been Unholy since I hit 80 at the beginning of Wrath so I'm only going by what I remember reading or personal experience.
Originally Posted by Charonites
Okay, right, I've updated things - you can't see it on my Armoury right now, as I haven't loged off to update the Armoury. But I've removed the Hit Trinket with Mirror of Truth.
Got a second Nighttime - put Razorice on one, and Cinderglacier on the other.
And put Rune of the Fallen Crusader on my brand-spanking new Quel'delar, Cunning of the Shadows! Woop! I won the Battered Hilt. xD
And things seem to be much better. Hit 7k DPS in a Heroic for the first time.