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Thread: onyxia help

  1. #1
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    onyxia help

    where do I go for advice on onyxia? I watched the video, but have a few detail questions and didn't see a heading for this in the strategies section. is there a thread already I could read through?

  2. #2
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    What exactly are you looking for help on? (This is as good a place as any...)

    Just give us the specifics of what you are looking for and we can try to help you out. Perhaps even with MS Paint!
    RNGesus - Saving you unreliably since BC.
    http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/v...ellvarsig3.jpg

  3. #3
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    I like MS paint

    here's the basic story: I've been trying to pug onyxia 25 for a week or two now and not having any luck. I started on my healer (my usual character for pugs) and kept dying almost instantly to the whelps in phase two. didn't matter if I used shadowmeld and fade, I'd get aggro and go down pretty fast. so then I tried on my DK tank, to try to get a feel for that part of the encounter from a different perspective. I now have a little more sympathy for those tanks in the first raids, as I was having trouble rounding up all of the whelps fast enough. on both characters I've had trouble finding a raid that stuck together through more than one wipe, so I don't get much of a chance to try out different approaches. so my questions are:

    1. as a tank, what's the best place to stand at the beginning of phase two to gather up all of the whelps when they spawn? should I drop a dnd in front of one corridor and run to blood boil the whelps on the other side, then gather in the center? or drop dnd in the middle and wait for them to come to me? what's a good strategy for picking them up on later spawns, since I seemed to spend too much time chasing down one or two at a time who had aggro'd on dps?

    2. as a healer, where do I stand in phase two to not get insta-gibbed while the tank is getting aggro? I'm starting to consider just shadowmelding until the danger has passed, but then I'm way out of range of the MT at the entrance and also might lose the OT if I'm not actively healing during this time.

    thanks for your help!

  4. #4
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    The basic strat to avoid healer gib and assist pickup is to stack at the opposite end of the cavern from where you enter. From here you can gather the whelps as they will all funnel right towards the group (both sides).

    Of course you still require skilled tanks to be able to effectively pick up the whelps off the group.

    Hopefully the picture has attached and works. (X is where Ony lifts off)
    Last edited by MellvarTank; 03-29-2010 at 12:39 PM.
    RNGesus - Saving you unreliably since BC.
    http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/v...ellvarsig3.jpg

  5. #5
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    You're going to DPS very, very slowly.... (never mind you need to see the Youtube).

    Wait - you want start of phase 2 right? The easiest way (and I'm a whelp tank DK/Pally) is for the raid to collapse in the middle between the two caves; you need to be in the middle toward the front, the whelps will come from each cave and go to the middle, you drop DnD right where the two whelp streams will meet in the middle and the raid AoE's them down. Howling Blast, Plague strike, Pestilence, Blood Boil - there's nothing more fun in tanking then being in the middle of that light show as the AoE burns the whelps (your frame rate will go to like 2 fps, but it's pretty).

    More problematic is picking up the whelps during the fight. Since they don't come out in a steady stream all at once, you need to drop DnD in front of the cave, the stay on top of the whelps coming out with Howling Blast, and using Pestilence.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theotherone View Post
    You're going to DPS very, very slowly.... (never mind you need to see the Youtube).
    Onyxia Wipe Animation
    Last edited by leethaxor; 03-29-2010 at 12:59 PM. Reason: OOPS
    [Today 06:48 PM] Ion:swimming in a natural body of water ISN'T acceptable...it's momentarily tolerable

  7. #7
    Bosskillers.com

  8. #8
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    thanks, I'll try that positioning next time I can get a raid.

    maybe I should post a link to that video at the beginning of any pug raid. trying to convince dps to slow down and let me get aggro these days is somewhat like beating my head against a large stone wall. I can't even threaten them with a -50 DKP. :P

  9. #9
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    Humour notwithstanding, the Ony Wipe video has some good points. You need to understand aggro mechanics and a bit about how the fight progresses.

    As a healer:
    You can only get aggro in 2 ways:
    1) being closer to a whelp than a tank (face pulling, or proximity aggro)
    2) Aggro by healing. If you aggro by healing, either your tank is not in a threat mode (Righteous Fury, Frost Presence, Defensive stance.. bear form...) or more likely, they haven't landed hits (the whelp isn't in Consecreate/DnD/Tclap/Swipe range)

    Solutions:
    1) There should be 2 tanks. Arrange raid as follows

    (West Entrance to pissed off whelps) (West Tank) (the raid) (East Tank) (East Entrance to pissed off whelps)

    So long as there is a tank between you and whelps, they will "Facepull" first. Also, have them set down DnD/Consecrate if applicable, or swipe/Tclap+Shockwave to gather them all, then have them bring to the center together so that everybody can AoE both packs from both tanks at the same time.

    2) Use "pre-healing" where possible. It sounds like you are a Night Elf Priest, put a prayer of mending and a bubble (even if you are Holy) before the whelps come out. Renew or other Heal-over-time spells is not advisable until the whelps have been damaged by the tank(s). For shamans, use Earthshield, for paladins use Sacred Shield. Druids be screwed, at best you can try to Crit a nourish and place a seed on the tank, but I wouldn't get my hopes up on that one.

    3) Priests have a wonderful tool. It's called Holy Nova. HOLY NOVA CAUSES NO AGGRO! And it does a lot of damage, it's just mana intensive, so watch your mana pool. If you are geared for it, you can spam holy nova to great effect, and if the tank is really geared, it's sometimes enough for them. However, don't say you haven't been warned about the mana thing, no use have all whelps down and be OOM.

    As a tank:
    1) Refer to the above raid arrangement. All you can hope for is that nobody DPS's before you get a chance to (guaranteed to lose threat that way), you can survive a few hits without heals (the time lag between you taking hits and whelps being damaged by you). Once you have enough aggro bring them to the center and let DPS have at it. If they start DPSing before the center, accept the wipe and then review the strategy again

    2) If you can get the whelps to come to you, most tank classes have some form of reflective damage (warrior - Damage shield (if specced), everybody has access to thorns and retribution aura). it won't hold threat, but it's a start, until you get something else down (consecrate/DnD/tclap&ShockWave/Bear Swipe).

    3) Rogue Tricks of the Trade + Fan of Knives and Hunter Misdirect + Volley are your friend. Use it. Don't start a raid without two if your tank(s) are having aggro issues.

    4) For 25 man, If your raid dps is low, have 3 tanks. Two to handle whelps, and a third to handle big dragonkin adds that will invariably come before DPS finishes the whelps. Do not try this strategy with 10 man, you will dilute the DPS too much and fail.

  10. #10
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    My advice for healing.

    When the welps are up standing next to a tank and preferably in an AOE is the safest place to be. Just make dam sure at the time the tank doesn't have a big melee add .. dying to a blast nova is not a plan. Ideally the raid will have put icons on the tanks so you can easily find them and usually you are assigned to heal one.

    As for tanking almost every group now assigns tanks to left and right pit. They pick up the adds right infront of the pits usually generate a bit of threat for around 5 seconds then both tanks come together in middle to aoe the packs down. Rarely see it done any other way in pugs ... I have seen a few guilds do a single pickup in middle but that takes alot more co-operation with healers etc and they are usually on vent to do it.
    ** Remember Warcraft players fail in directions you never thought possible.

  11. #11
    If you're 3tanking it (25man) drop DnD at one cave mouth, wait till a bunch come out, hit howling blast, and move to the center. Then keep up your aoe rotation.

    If you're 2tanking it (10man), drop DnD in one cave mouth and go to the other side to howling blast/BB if you're frost or icy touch/pestilence/bb for blood/unholy. Then move to the center and continue your aoe rotation.

    Other people in the raid bear some responsibility of moving to your location if they get a stray whelp on them.

    Like a previous poster, when I heal I stand right in the middle of all the whelps as they are being aoe'd. If one is on you, it won't be for long.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by zuke8675309 View Post
    ...I stand right in the middle of all the whelps as they are being aoe'd. If one is on you, it won't be for long.
    This is what I do as well; since individually, the whelps aren't much of a threat to a non-tank (it's only when they gang up on you) standing by the tank makes sure anything pecking at you will die, instead of being aggroed out of the AOE.

  13. #13
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    Also, don't forget to keep your eyes to the sky while all of this phase 2 fun is afoot. Sooner or later, Ony will deep breathe more (fire that is) and if you know where she's deployed herself to ahead of time, it makes getting the heck out of the soon-to-be (firey) dodge that much easier. Anticipation is a key element in a lot of end game shenanigans I find.

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