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Thread: Expertise and endgame ICC 25 heroic tanking....

  1. #41
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    Actually since shockwave is a ranged AoE attack, it can't be dodged, blocked or parried. Just sayin'.

    Edit: oops someone said that already.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

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  2. #42
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    It cant be "dodged" in the WOW sense.... the mob could, however, move out of the cone of shockwave and effectively be missed....

    I believe the stun portion of a shockwave can be resisted, however, which would explain why it looks like it was dodged. Again, not saying that expertise is the end all, be all. There is a time and place for it. Mostly on fights with adds where snap threat and gaining threat on multiple mobs at the same time is important.
    Last edited by Unger; 04-09-2010 at 04:29 PM.
    Deeps for show..... tank for dough.....

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    Actually since shockwave is a ranged AoE attack, it can't be dodged, blocked or parried. Just sayin'.

    Edit: oops someone said that already.
    It can be blocked, like most (all?) physical ranged attacks can.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naka View Post
    It can be blocked, like most (all?) physical ranged attacks can.
    Correct, the damage portion can be blocked but the stun will still get through.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreador View Post
    Correct, the damage portion can be blocked but the stun will still get through.
    Which ICC bosses block? Edit: this is an actual legitimate question, I honestly never looked into bosses in ICC25 blocking, because to my knowledge none of the bosses or adds in ICC25 boss encounters can block. Edit2: If they can and they don't use shields then I hold that on the same level as snakes being able to kick in EverQuest. Edit3: Also not denying that shockwave can't be blocked, I just didn't know, now I do, huzzah!
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  6. #46
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    I've seen blocks on all bosses in ICC in my logs. example

    Granted, the number is small enough to not even worry about, but they do happen.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    Which ICC bosses block? Edit: this is an actual legitimate question, I honestly never looked into bosses in ICC25 blocking, because to my knowledge none of the bosses or adds in ICC25 boss encounters can block. Edit2: If they can and they don't use shields then I hold that on the same level as snakes being able to kick in EverQuest. Edit3: Also not denying that shockwave can't be blocked, I just didn't know, now I do, huzzah!
    I kind of took it out of context. What I meant to say is the ability can be blocked in general. Also you can't stun ICC bosses, further invalidating my statement. Good morning!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  8. #48
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    I'm currently sitting at 14 exp. Having taken a glimpse on my planned upgrade path(based on availability; I only tank 25man if we are lacking a tank; there are very few intersting upgrades in 10 man for me) I realized that I will propably lose some of that.
    I have two agi/stam gems in my gear and I wondered if I should replace them with exp/stam.

    So I went to a boss dummy and devastated it for some time. I had a sequence of appies that really scared me. If I should ever have to tank a scary parry hasted mob, I will shift things around a little bit. If there is no parry haste I'm only in trouble threatwise if I screwed up.

    To me reaching the hit minimum is much more important since I have to keep debuffs up myself. I'd hate missed demo shouts/tclaps.

    SIMON DE MONTFORT, EARL OF LEICESTER
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    killed in the Battle of Evesham on 4 August 1265.


  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unger View Post
    It cant be "dodged" in the WOW sense.... the mob could, however, move out of the cone of shockwave and effectively be missed....

    I believe the stun portion of a shockwave can be resisted, however, which would explain why it looks like it was dodged. Again, not saying that expertise is the end all, be all. There is a time and place for it. Mostly on fights with adds where snap threat and gaining threat on multiple mobs at the same time is important.
    Is it my imagination or did they fix the old range issues on SW? Where if you were on a boss with a big hitbox shockwave somehow wouldn't reach him even though you were in melee range? I feel like they did, but I'm not sure.

    Also, the old Revenge was maddening since you'd see a bunch of "Immune"s pop up while tanking and if you weren't paying attn you'd think something horrible was wrong.

    Last, every npc in the game can block amazingly... even the ones without shields of any sort! But as said it's pretty rare and I don't think any mob has a high block value anyways.

  10. #50
    In my experience, for snap aggro, hit is much more important. Many tank abilities count as ranged attacks and expertise has no benefits here, like warrior TC & SW, paladin AS & Judgement, druid FF, deathknight IT. I've absolutely no issue on snap aggro once I got hit capped and hit capping also eliminates the need to use a taunt glyph on bosses like DBS. That's why I'm using the Blacksmith boots instead of the Dreamwalker boots.

  11. #51
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    Except ranged abilities only have an 8% chance to miss where as melee abilities have a total of something like 28.5% chance to miss (dodge+parry+miss). Getting to 26 expertise cuts that number down to 15.5%. Also, imo shield slam is the best snap threat mechanics for single target, yes shockwave is good and probably more threat, but the utility of it is far too important to be the go to move for snap threat, and a lot of times you don't want to stun the target. That and TC isnt snap threat at all. If you're wanting to pile up single target DPS Shockwave is 1 of 6 abilities you may try to use (hs, devastate, shield slam, revenge, and conq blow + SW).

    Expertise up to 26 gives better returns than hit, imo.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodasafa View Post
    Look its not that hit and expertise do not increase your threat, they do. However they do so on a much smaller scale than people realize.

    How all tanks generate threat (Listed from the highest source to the lowest):

    1) Using your abilities properly. This is paramount, nothing increase your threat more than this.
    2) Spec and Glyphs.
    3) Proper use of external abilities such as TotT and MD.
    4) 26 Expertise Skill.
    5) Hit rating.

    Stacking stamina is not mindless unless you do not understand why you should be doing it. Tanks that do not min/max their survival by stacking stamina (or armor where available) through gems and enchants are only doing their raid a disservice. Most tanks including myself tanked Heroic ToGC 25 with as little as 40 hit rating and are now also in ICC with as little as 16 expertise rating. These tanks are working with DPS that are pulling 10k+ on most fights and doing just fine without reaching the hit cap or the expertise soft cap.

    If a tank is having threat issues no amount of expertise or hit is going to correct that, see #1.

    /thread
    This. (Although I'm not sure why you threw in that weird 'I firmly believe...' post on page 1...). It's good for people to understand that those four items on the threat list do not scale linearly with respect to each other. There is a significant gap between (3) and (4) on that list in terms of threat generation, and you should talk to your raid and make sure you're getting threat externals.

    There's no reason to gear for expertise. Ever.

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