Where can I improve? (ICC 25 + ICC 10 HMs tank gearing)

[mattyplo]

Hi all,

I've recently moved up to MTing for my guild, and will be starting on ICC 10 HMs as well as LK 25 this week, so I'm trying to tweak my gear/spec/etc to be absolutely optimal. I'm usually pretty good at figuring out this stuff for myself, but since I've been staring at my own gear for so long, I figured some fresh eyes could be helpful. Obligatory armory link: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...ris&cn=Tygrand

I'm currently running a 15/3/53 threat spec, but will be making my offspec 5/15/51 (Survival + Safeguard, mostly for 10s.) This was my previous Safeguard spec, prior to the Revenge buff: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#LVZGV00xZVItMx0dVdcdsGo. I guess my first question is, should I move points around to get points in to Imp Revenge in that spec? My best thought is to take a couple points out of Imp Thunder Clap for Revenge, but I'm not totally sure. And my current primary spec I threw together before raid this week b/c of the Revenge buff and wanting to get back in to Imp Revenge, but no idea if it's optimal for me. I've also had points in Imp Disciplines for ages, basically since Vezax, so all I have to do for super-short SW cooldowns is throw in a Glyph, but I don't know the value of that anymore. Glyphs I change all the time, and have a pretty good grasp of when I need what for those, so don't worry too much about that. =P

On to gear: I'm wearing what I would consider my normal tanking gear. Obviously, I swap some things around depending on the fight, but this is my standard go-to gear. There are a few major adjustments I've considered making, but I really can't decide if it's worth it:
1. Gloves: Wearing Taldaram's Plated Fists, but I could buy Gauntlets of the Kraken, and also have the 251 tier.
2. Legs: Wearing Legguards of Lost Hope, but I could get the crafted ones made without too much trouble
3. Wrists: Wearing Gargoyle's Spit Bracers, but I have Bracers of Dark Reckoning collecting dust in my bags. *If* I get the Heroic Gargoyle's any time soon, I'll definitely wear those, but I'm wearing the 251s over the 264s right now for the armor.
4. Rings: Wearing Devium's and the Ashen Verdict ring at the moment. I have Clutch, which is nice for the armor, Juggernaut for avoidance, and I could get my hands on Heroic Band of the Twin Val'kyr which is better than Clutch for armor, if only it would drop. Honestly, haven't put much thought in to these, and there's probably a lot of debate, so no idea here which combo makes the most sense.
I haven't gotten any tokens yet, but between 10 HMs and my stockpile of DKP I imagine I could grab some fairly quickly.
What, if any, adjustments should I make? I don't like the armor loss if I wear the 264 wrists, but changing my legs or gloves would up that. Or should I change both of those, keep the wrists, and just have crazy armor? Basically, there's so much stuff I could tweak, I don't know what makes the most sense...

Thanks in advance for any help!

[Aggathon]

Gloves: Yes definitely get gauntlets of the kraken. Gem them with 2x30 stam gems and put on either the 18 stam or 240 armor to glove leatherworking enchant
Legs: DEFINITELY get Pillars of might made if you can, gem with 3x30 stam.
Wrists are fine, gem with a 30 stam gem though, don't waste time worrying about hit rating and only go for socket bonuses that are +9stam or higher that only require 1 hybrid gem.
Rings: Definitely pick up H-Band of the Twin Valks if you can, it is actually better than the ashen verdict ring, otherwise your ring selection is correct.

On to things you weren't asking about specifically:

Helm: Since you're over 26 expertise, unless you are having threat problems, I'd suggest changing this from a 10exp/15stam gem to a 10agi/15stam gem or a 10dodge/15stam gem.
Shoulders: i would suggest changing the enchant to the 30stam/15 resil PvP one (10k honor from the honor vendors in stormwind)
Chest: Regem with 3x30stam gems. Since this +12 socket bonus requires you to use 2 hybrid gems it is more like you are gemming for 2 +6stam bonuses and therefore you are losing a net of 18 stam by going for the bonus instead of just 3. Gear for EHP so gem all 3x30stam.
Weapon: Definitely change your enchant to blood draining, if you are going to be progressing and hitting content, it is a must, imo.
Boots: I'd change the hit/stam gem to either defense/stam or 30 stam. I also highly recommend changing your boot enchant to Tuskarr's Vitality. The movespeed is simply priceless
Belt: Again I'd suggest changing the exp/stam gem here to either agi/stam or dodge/stam (the difference being that agi gives slightly less dodge but also 20 armor)

Spec is exactly optimal, only thing I would change is moving 3 points in shield spec into focused rage, but that becomes more of a personal preference. Gylphs are alright, but make sure you are carrying around glyphs per situation, last stand and shield wall can be very good/important on some fights, expecially hardmodes. So basically you're still correct about glyphs, don't worry about it.

For your survivability spec, I'm not sure how I feel about taking points out of gag order and putting them into imp revenge. It's probably more overall damage but idk about how much overall threat. I also really like the utility of gag order, but on fights where you'll be using that spec I doubt gag order is that important. Idk... I think this is actually a very legitimate question. Definitely do not drop Tclap for it though. Your primary concern for a 5/15/51 spec is survivability, threat takes a back seat.

[mattyplo]

My only concern with all those changes is the massive drop in my hit rating - it would bring it down to something like 3%. I'm not worried about the threat aspect there, as my threat has skyrocketed with some recent tweaks to my rotation etc, but more the chance of a taunt miss. 3% + 8% from glyph + 3% misery/iFF (since it's on the spell hit table, I assume these increase its hit chance) + 1% draenei = 15%, which leaves a 2% miss chance, at best. I guess that's not huge, and Wars have quite a few backups, but it still worries me. I suppose I could hold on to my current pants and swap those in on fights where taunts are especially critical, just to make sure I'm capped out and can't miss?

Otherwise, I think I can pretty much agree 100% with your suggestions.

[mattyplo]

Oh, also - if I drop all my exp/sta gems for agi/sta or straight sta, my expertise drops to 22. Dropping 2 will bring me from 28 down to 26, and 3 to 24, the latter which would happen if I just regem the items where you suggested straight stamina. I'm thinking it might make more sense to gem chest/crafted legs/kraken hands with straight stam, but leave the rest, which would put me at 24 exp. Think that's worth it, or should I change the rest and drop to 22 exp?

[Bodasafa]

My only concern with all those changes is the massive drop in my hit rating

Hit rating is not needed. Most tanks including myself tanked Heroic ToGC 10/25 with as little as 40 hit rating and Gormok was all about the taunt swaps. In cases where Taunts are sensitive you can either follow up your taunt with Mocking Blow, as all tank swaps are spaced far enough you won't risk diminishing returns (assuming you do it right after the taunt) or you can swap in glyph of taunt when needed.

I know its a hard concept to get used to, I had a hard time with it at first, but its really the truth, you don't need it. Just take what you get in the form of equips on your gear through the natural course of upgrades. Do not make gearing/gemming/enchanting decisions based on +hit.

[Bodasafa]

Oh, also - if I drop all my exp/sta gems for agi/sta or straight sta, my expertise drops to 22. Dropping 2 will bring me from 28 down to 26, and 3 to 24, the latter which would happen if I just regem the items where you suggested straight stamina. I'm thinking it might make more sense to gem chest/crafted legs/kraken hands with straight stam, but leave the rest, which would put me at 24 exp. Think that's worth it, or should I change the rest and drop to 22 exp?

You can eat the expertise food: http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43028 , it gives you 4.88 expertise skill.

Currently I'm in a gear transition period waiting on the boots from Dreamwalker 25 to drop, so I have x2 Guardian Dreadstones [+10 Expertise & +15 Stamina] = 1.22 expertise skill, and eat the food to make 26 skill.

[mattyplo]

I know its a hard concept to get used to, I had a hard time with it at first, but its really the truth, you don't need it. Just take what you get in the form of equips on your gear through the natural course of upgrades. Do not make gearing/gemming/enchanting decisions based on +hit.

Yeah, it really is a hard concept. >.< But I'll trust y'all and go with it. =P

You can eat the expertise food: http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43028 , it gives you 4.88 expertise skill.

Currently I'm in a gear transition period waiting on the boots from Dreamwalker 25 to drop, so I have x2 Guardian Dreadstones [+10 Expertise & +15 Stamina] = 1.22 expertise skill, and eat the food to make 26 skill.

Well duh, I didn't even think of Exp food. Still have stacks of it in my bank from back when my expertise was really low. Gogo regemming.

[Aggathon]

Check my armory and also look at foot note 3 in my guide (link in sig) if you are REALLY worried about taunt misses. I see that you made the changes and you have 106 hit which is actually over the alliance minimum. If you eat hit food, have the +3% spell hit buff (taunt is based off of spell hit btw, not melee hit, and hit rating scales better with spell hit) have the draeni buff and glyph of taunt, then you only need 92 hit to ensure that your taunt never misses. Even if you don't eat hit food you're not far off. If you are getting close to needing to taunt you can toss Vigilance on your other tank and you'll get a new taunt every time he/she is hit. Between mocking blow, challenging shout, vigilance, and glyph of taunt, you really shouldn't need hit rating p much at all.

[mattyplo]

Yep, made all the changes last night before 10 man. Thanks for all the tips - had no issues with taunt misses or anything, and I opted for expertise food to bring me up to 26 there, but will start carrying hit food with me too, just in case.

For my survival spec, I went 3/5 in Shield Spec and put 0 points in Gag Order for 2/2 Imp Revenge and Safeguard. (And it's still showing my Arms glyphs because I hadn't decided exactly how I'm going to glyph it yet, and will just do that when I decide to use it for a fight.) Honestly, the only fight it's really for is LK, so Safeguard is the most important thing, but I'll have to see where the spec might be useful for other fights.

I'd actually forgotten how nice Gag Order was - I'd dropped it out of my regular spec at some point, and kinda forgot about it. We opted to do Lady Deathwhisper Heroic up on the stage to have the adds come to us, rather than moving back and forth, and it was *amazing* for the caster adds.

[Dragaan]

Nm... lol