DPS Rotation - Mutilate and Combat specs.
My gear isn't great at this point, that much I know... My DPS/Damage still seems low, especially around AoE targets (FoK seems to suck for me, not sure if i'm doing something wrong or what). So I was hoping someone could give me some advice or tell me i'm where i'm supposed to be DPS/Damage wise.
First off, here is my armory: WoW Armory - Malygos - Leonaldo.
Second, my DPS is usually around 1.8K - 2.2K which seems low to me... I've read up on some rotations and they all seem fairly straight forward; honestly I think i'm missing something.
Keep Hunger for Blood up first, then keep Slice and Dice up. Once they are up I Mutilate to 4 or 5 CP, then Eviscerate, Mutilate to 4 or 5 CP, Rupture. Basically that's the entire rotation, but sometimes i'll rotate in Envenom in place of Eviscerate.
HFB > SnD > Mut x4 > Eviscerate > Mut x4 > Rupture > Mut x4 > Envenom > Repeat.
I haven't actually ran an instance in this spec yet as i'm working up my Sword/Axe skills but, from what i've gathered, this is the rotation I should use (PLEASE correct me if i'm wrong! lol):
Sin. Strike x5 > S&D > Sin. Strike x4 > EV > Repeat...
Seems like I should throw a Rupture in there to get the 2P T9 bonus, but maybe that's a net loss of DPS?
For mutilate you actually never use eviscerate, and rarely ir ever use rupture. From stealth you garrote -> hunger for blood -> slice and dice. From there you mutilate to 4 or 5 combo points and then envenom, and repeat. Envenom will refresh SnD as mutilate, and you also want to get as high an uptime on the envenom buff as possible, which is why you don't really use rupture (and your envenom should be hitting harder than evisc and, as mutilate doesn't kill your DP stacks, so there isn't any point to using evisc).
As for combat, the general idea is SS to 2/3 combo points, SnD, SS to 5 combo points, evisc, and repeat. Dependong on your gear level it may be to sub in rupture for eviscerate (I'm on my ipod so I don't feel like checking your gear/specs just yet), as well as possibly taking points out of imp. Evisc for Blood Splatter.
Wow... I'm anxious to see what this does to my DPS. Thanks for the advice; I will definitely give this a try as soon as I run something on my Rogue.
On the last boss of Gundrak (with heroism as there was a Shammy in the group) I did 5.1K doing the Garrote > HFB > SnD > Mutilate > Envenom strategy. =D
Thank you, apparently that works wonders.
Another full instance of high damage/DPS with that strategy. Thanks a ton, that makes the rogue a lot more effective for me!
My next question is what stats am I looking for in a weapon? Obviously, as mutilate i'll be looking for daggers, but how do I know which is better for Main Hand and which is better for Off Hand? How do I know which poison to put on which weapon? Right now I have two daggers of the same DPS so I put the faster on in my offhand. I put Instant Poison on the main hand dagger (slower dagger) and Deadly Poison on the off-hand dagger (faster dagger). Also, as far as thrown/Gun/Crossbow weapons, is there any specific stats to look for in those?
Does this sound right?
Last edited by Wilhem; 04-23-2010 at 12:45 PM.
Reason: Question about Weapons.
The dagger with the highest DPS goes in your mainhand, and you want to have at least one fast dagger in either hand. (so usually Slow MH / Fast OH is the best combination, but in a pinch, fast/fast will work as well - slow/slow is for PvP)
Originally Posted by JokerFMJ
On the fastest dagger you put Deadly Poison, on the other Instant Poison.
Your ranged slot is basicly a stat weapon - don't worry about the damage & DPS of it - just look for the right stats (eg agi , AP, crit, etc)
Thank you, Dot. I appreciate all of y'alls advice!
Couple other tips.. i would run some spreadsheets to see if ap gems will be better then agi gems.. im full ap but then my gear lvl is icc 25. Also you want to get a tracker for evem.. i use ebb.. you want to pool your energy around the envem buff on the mob. Basically you don't want to clip your envem or you lose dps.. now in a heroic this is a bit harder because stuff dies so fast.
So if I have 5 CP's and the envenom buff is still on it, I don't want to waste CP's either, right? Do I rupture or eviscerate? Or if I find that happening should I use my CP's when I get 1-2, then work back up to 4-5 to refresh envenom? Hopefully that makes sense to you. lol
Originally Posted by nobel
For Mutilate, you'll simply gemming AP will never be a bad idea. Agility isn't as good, since the crit that you get from it does not affect poisons. There comes a point when haste is more beneficial, but we're talking fractions of a percent difference here.
What Nobel was mentioning is referred to as Envenom clipping, since your main source of damage isn't the Envenom finisher itself, but your poisons (which are a result of your Envenom buff). General rule of thumb with Mutilate - Press Mut until you have 4 or more combo points, then Envenom as long as the buff isn't already up. If you have 80+ energy and 4+ CP, you Envenom anyways. Eviscerate and Rupture both require talents and glyphs in order to make them comparable to Envenom in damage output, and in the standard Assassination builds, you don't bother with either. The only time you would use Rupture is if you need to refresh HfB, and there's nobody else to provide the bleed for you (warriors, hunters, druids). In this case, you wait until you get a Ruthlessness proc as HfB is starting to run out (i.e. sub 20 seconds), Rupture from the 1 point, and then HfB as late as possible on the bleed. You're using Rupture to refresh HfB - not to increase your DPS.
Don't worry about the T9 2pc bonus - it's completely worthless. It's a 2% chance on something that's ticking every 3 seconds to save you 40 energy - i.e. it'll save you 40 energy every 2.5 minutes (i.e. it's completely worthless ).
I'm less familiar with combat, but generally speaking, your first and top priority, above all else is to keep Slice and Dice up. After that, you try to get as many 5 point Eviscerates out as possible. Rupture pulls slightly ahead now with the 3.3.3 changes, but is much more difficult to maintain as part of a rotation until you're comfortable. For now, stick with Ruptureless cycles.
Rupture cycles also require you to glyph for, and possibly spec, for it. Which means you either drop out glyph of Evisc/TotT (I personally use the latter as it's more of a raid DPS increase) or glyph of SS.
I already mentioned that.
Originally Posted by Zxian
Once again, thanks for the advice. I'm hitting 5.5-6K in VoA (that's the only "raid" i've done on my rogue to this point). My gearscore is apparently around 5K, I don't have the addon turned on so i'm not sure exactly what it is... But I still have some bad pieces of gear i'm working on upgrading. I just got the Needle-Encrusted Scorpion last night before I went to bed, i'm hoping that's a nice pickup on DPS over the King Dred Tooth Trinket thing... Forget what it's called right now, something incisor, maybe... lol
Anyway, I really really appreciate all the advice!
Note sure if your checking this still but.. Never rup anymore as well as evis. What you typically do is just wait.. Example.. evem buff is rolling (2 seconds left or so) and you have 4 points with 50% energy. Hold off on envem till the debuff expires with one exception.. if you are going to cap your energy. In higher gear lvls the chance of you capping energy is actually very high from my experence..
Originally Posted by JokerFMJ
EBB is one example of a tracker but there are many others out there.. any debuff tracker on a mob should work for yeah.. This is also more of a raid thing.. in heroics i just keep HFB/SnD up and spam fok on most things.. on bosses i may get two to three rotations in before the dude is dead.. sad but true.
Hope this helps.. if this is a dead post well so be it :P
In trash pulls is it just FoK spam? Or should i use Killing spree and blade ?
Yep, use all cooldowns available.
Highest burst DPS on trash AoE packs is probably AR - BF - FoK followed by a KSpr when your AR runs out.
And if you really want to, you can also switch to a slow off-hand for that and run double Wound, so everything hits just a bit harder.
Just don't forget to switch back to the right weapons and poisons for bosses
I've been noticing this... I'll put a 4-5 CP Envenom on the boss, mutilate once and have 4 CP's again. At that point I just wait until Envenom falls off and reapply, then can instantly mutilate again and repeat the process.
Originally Posted by nobel
I don't always get ahead like this because I don't always get that extra combo point, but when I do my DPS seems pretty nice.
This should be in the HALP forum
According to your link it belongs here... >.> But the thread is dead at this point anyway.
Originally Posted by Insahnity
if you link an armory post, it generally belongs in the HALP forum because you're asking for specific individual help. If you had asked simply "what is the correct dps rotation for mutilate rogues?" then it indeed would belong here, since your post is a little of both, it's kind of in a strange place. I'll leave it here since it's as you said "dead".