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Thread: Mongoose or Blood Draining?

  1. #1
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    Mongoose or Blood Draining?

    Hi everyone, 5818 GS Prot Warrior here.

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...krock&cn=Weezy

    I have been using Accuracy (25 hit/crit) on my 1h weapon for a while now for reasons unknown. Lol, I really don't know why I did it in the first place.

    It's time for me to change my weapon enchant that will benefit me tanking more.

    At the moment I am leaning towards Mongoose.

    What do you all recommend? Blood draining seems good but really only is effective if I get low in health. Whereas Mongoose benefits all the time.
    Last edited by crashxdjp; 03-22-2010 at 03:28 PM. Reason: Included Armory Link

  2. #2
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    Blood Draining, smart heal when you need it (low health) > RNG. For pallies mongoose is fine because the uptime for them is ridiculously high, but I REALLY prefer blood draining for warriors due to mongoose's very low uptime for warriors. Also the search function is your friend, there have been like 6 or 7 threads on this in the last 2 weeks.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  3. #3
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    I swear to god we need to put the Search bar in the center of the forums.

    True Knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing.
    Agg's tanking guide

  4. #4
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    With a strobe light.... according to Boda....
    RNGesus - Saving you unreliably since BC.
    http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/v...ellvarsig3.jpg

  5. #5
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    Did some research and it seems they are about even. However, the uptime for Mongoose on a Warrior seems pretty low. But honestly, I know this sounds stupid, I like how Mongoose looks. It matches my gear better.

    The difference between the two enchants is almost nothing.

  6. #6
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    Blood Draining is better.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by MellvarTank View Post
    With a strobe light.... according to Boda....
    Yes, we clearly need one.
    There is something so appealing about backhanding someone across the face with a shield.

  8. #8
    It really depends on how ur warrior is geared and speced. If your geared for avodince get blade ward. If your geared for EHP Get Blood draining

  9. #9
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    Agg- while I agree BD is better as a progression or EHP enchant, Mongoose has incredibly good uptime for warriors, it's near constant.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  10. #10
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    What about icy chill. I think that enchant looks pretty cool too!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreador View Post
    Agg- while I agree BD is better as a progression or EHP enchant, Mongoose has incredibly good uptime for warriors, it's near constant.
    Since when? last parses I saw it was like 30% Did they ninja buff it and no one told me?
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    Since when? last parses I saw it was like 30% Did they ninja buff it and no one told me?
    I'll have to log it, but it seems like it's up all the time. It was back in BC, then when LK came out it seemed to drop off the way Crusader did with character level....then it seemed like it was back. Not sure, have to log it.

    Has anyone given thought to Executioner as a threat chant? I see it was changed over to provide rating instead of flat 840 armor pen. I may stick it on my other Rimefang's to see what it can do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  13. #13
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    I'm pretty sure it didn't change for warriors since WotLK came out. For pallies the SoV mechanic increased the uptime, but unless they ninja patched it to like proc off of deep wounds ticks or some shenanigans the uptime should have no reason to increase.

    Edit: although now that I think about it I seem to remember something about them normalizing level 70 weapon enchant PPMs... not sure though.
    Last edited by Aggathon; 03-24-2010 at 07:27 AM.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  14. #14
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    I'm really considering theorycrafting this out to see the total benefit of the EH portion of mongoose vs. blood draining for a paladin at the ~60k hp ~36k armor level. If any paladin tanks can link me some ICC 25 boss parses showing mongoose uptime I would appreciate it.

  15. #15
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    My main is a Warrior tank. I'm currently using mongoose and it seems to be up almost constantly. Might wanna look into it.

  16. #16
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    I look at it like this:

    Mongoose gives Crit, Dodge, and a small amount of Armor. My goal as a tank is to survive first and foremost, so the Crit feels wasted (especially since we get the most crit for the abilities we use while tanking from talents). The Dodge is RNG and can never be counted on to be there when I need it, I also have plenty of avoidance on my gear as it is. The small amount of armor is really the best part about this enchant (aside from the glow). However all of this is proc dependent, making it even less attractive.

    Blood Draining, gives you a smart health pot (roughly 2k heal) when you drop below 35% hp. There is no RNG, there is no proc. It works every time you drop below 35%. Yes, yes there are plenty of situations where you can be just above 35% and go to dead, meaning the enchant did nothing.

    However the same applies on a much larger scale to Mongoose.
    - Will it even proc right when I need it?
    - Is the small amount of dodge I gained the reason I dodged at all? Or was it due to the dodge I already had without the proc from the enchant?

    There are too many x-factors in mongoose to make it a reliable enchant for me.

    In the end as said several times in many, many, many, many threads. Neither of these enchants are game breaking, neither of these enchants is "far superior" to the other, and both of them are simply personal preference.

    As George Carlin once said "Pick your religion and go with it".
    There is something so appealing about backhanding someone across the face with a shield.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mawini View Post
    I'm really considering theorycrafting this out to see the total benefit of the EH portion of mongoose vs. blood draining for a paladin at the ~60k hp ~36k armor level. If any paladin tanks can link me some ICC 25 boss parses showing mongoose uptime I would appreciate it.

    ~1.7k HP vs 240 armor. 240 armor ~ 21 stam or 210 HPs... Blood Draining wins hands down.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  18. #18
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    Sure, if you're comparing a single proc value against one hit. I wouldn't, though.

    There's a lot going on there, and although blood draining is assumed to be "always there when you need it", that's not entirely true. Yes, it will always heal you a certain amount at a time when you do need a heal. It will not, however, heal you for that same amount (or at times, at all) EVERY time you need a heal below 35%. When analyzing the reliability of the proc, you have to take into account frequency of going below 35% and the stack rate of the buff. I guess you could call that enchant "never wasted", and this is a truth, but the armor portion of mongoose would have the same statement attached since it will reduce physical damage take every time it procs. This is what makes the situation much more grey than black/white.

    Thinking about the metrics I would use to make a valid and useful comparison between the two enchants, I believe that damage reduced over the course of an encounter vs. healing supplied would be fairly sufficient. A comparison, during "worst case" scenarios given average response and most beneficial response of both enchants, would probably be quite revealing as well.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mawini View Post
    Thinking about the metrics I would use to make a valid and useful comparison between the two enchants, I believe that damage reduced over the course of an encounter vs. healing supplied would be fairly sufficient.
    The problem with this is that, unlike bosses, if a tank dies, they die fast, not over a long period of time. Doing the damage reduction vs. healing done over the course of a fight is a bad idea because it is not representative of what actually keeps a tank alive, if you were to do such reductions then avoidance would be AMAZING, but it's not. Secondly, the difference in EHP value between blood draining and mongoose is so significant, that (lets say that blood draining heals for an average of 1.5k) it would have to reduce its healing efficiency (aka, not heal when you need it, heal for less, etc. etc. a scenario in this case might be if you are at 36% HP and a boss hits you for 37% worth of your health and while in this scenario you have zero % efficiency I'd argue that the probability of this happening is low, thusly increasing the overall efficiency of the enchant to above zero) to 14% in order for it to be EQUIVALENT in EHP value to Mongoose, not even worse.

    Also, if you are dropping below 35% faster than you can get stacks of blood draining back up, I have a feeling something far more significant is going wrong (even with LK when you're dropping below 35% every 30-60 seconds depending on what strat you use, you should still get 5 stacks of blood draining back up by then).
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  20. #20
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    I hear what you're saying, and I agree (even if my wording may have seemed to imply otherwise, sorry), that's why I added the second part following what you quoted. One would have to look at the maximum benefit and the % chance of attaining it. I don't have the uptime numbers, so I can't do anything but guess what that is. And I'm not going to bother with that, lol.

    Don't get me wrong, I've never enchanted a weapon with mongoose in WotLK and don't plan to (blood draining since it came out), but if the uptime is really high I think a good comparison is warranted... if nothing else, to demonstrate to people why NOT to get the level 70 enchant even if it's uptime is insane right now.

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