+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 58

Thread: The Weekly Marmot -- Cataclysm Making Warcraft Too Easy?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Tacoma, Wa
    Posts
    8,766

    The Weekly Marmot -- Cataclysm Making Warcraft Too Easy?




  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Petoskey, Michigan
    Posts
    413
    I want to see what happens to PvP because of this. Hopefully it doesn't make it broken.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    65
    Bit off-topic here, am i the only one who misses the ulduar-style of activating HM's and who thinks that "press button for HM" really is over-simplifying it a bit and taking from the encounter's beauty? :P

  4. #4
    GearScore makes a player better and more skillful.
    'Smash through obstacles, with a heart of gold and a Mind of steel, Nothing can get in my way.'

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    22

    Lore mentioned that everyone said that WotLK was going to make everything easier. I think its the general consensus that it is in fact incredibly easy. Bosses dies within days if not THE day they come out. Sure we havn't seen a Heroic Lich King kill but that is one fight amongst 12. How many heroic kills were there the day it was available? I don't remember...did this happen in TBC? I'm sure it wasn't like that in Classic. IMO blizzard needs to stop this attitude that "everyone needs to see everything". They said people weren't raiding as much before WotLK but everyone I remember playing with always had the goal of raiding in mind, and most were at least in some raid dungeon. It might not have been bleeding edge but they were raiding. I really hope Cataclysm is harder then WotLK because if its exactly the same I'm canceling my account for good.The only reason im still playing now is I love the guild im in and I'm hoping "Cataclysm'll fix it"


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    65
    Quote Originally Posted by Razzdango View Post

    Lore mentioned that everyone said that WotLK was going to make everything easier. I think its the general consensus that it is in fact incredibly easy. Bosses dies within days if not THE day they come out. Sure we havn't seen a Heroic Lich King kill but that is one fight amongst 12. How many heroic kills were there the day it was available? I don't remember...did this happen in TBC? I'm sure it wasn't like that in Classic. IMO blizzard needs to stop this attitude that "everyone needs to see everything". They said people weren't raiding as much before WotLK but everyone I remember playing with always had the goal of raiding in mind, and most were at least in some raid dungeon. It might not have been bleeding edge but they were raiding. I really hope Cataclysm is harder then WotLK because if its exactly the same I'm canceling my account for good.The only reason im still playing now is I love the guild im in and I'm hoping "Cataclysm'll fix it"

    I may not have been around during TBC but at this point i'm pretty sure ALL the HM's are far from being a faceroll. You have to understand that the people who are actually downing HM's within the first days are people who've wiped many many times before together, in TBC as well most likely. The experience and overall addon-use (technology if you want to say lol) have increased tremendously since the times of TBC and it's a really big factor in how effective guilds are against said HM's.

    Overall i think encounter difficulty is okay - normal modes are more accessible for non-hardcore raiders, HM's are for the tougher guilds but may become more and more accessible as things progress. If anything i'd like more encounters with quirks and twists - as a melee i consider fights like saurfang and festergut pretty boring, queen would be as well prolly if it weren't for the bite mechanic.

    Still thing Ulduar was better designed though, one of the reason was for the way HM's were activated - how some were layered and gave some guilds training time on their way to reaching full HM, or how some were gear-checks, it seemed a lot neater. Innovation over difficulty i say!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    22
    Quote Originally Posted by Baervar View Post
    I may not have been around during TBC but at this point i'm pretty sure ALL the HM's are far from being a faceroll. You have to understand that the people who are actually downing HM's within the first days are people who've wiped many many times before together, in TBC as well most likely. The experience and overall addon-use (technology if you want to say lol) have increased tremendously since the times of TBC and it's a really big factor in how effective guilds are against said HM's.

    Overall i think encounter difficulty is okay - normal modes are more accessible for non-hardcore raiders, HM's are for the tougher guilds but may become more and more accessible as things progress. If anything i'd like more encounters with quirks and twists - as a melee i consider fights like saurfang and festergut pretty boring, queen would be as well prolly if it weren't for the bite mechanic.

    Still thing Ulduar was better designed though, one of the reason was for the way HM's were activated - how some were layered and gave some guilds training time on their way to reaching full HM, or how some were gear-checks, it seemed a lot neater. Innovation over difficulty i say!
    With two modes for everything guilds kill all the bosses in regular super fast just to get to hard modes and then repeat the same instance AGAIN but harder. Back before WotLK when everything was hard mode guilds actually got to progress at a challenging level right out the gate. They either need to make hard mode open at the start of the instance and have a gear level so high that the guild has no reason to do regular, or do only hard modes again and the lesser talented guilds will just have to get more gear or practice. With everything hard they can scale the difficulty with the entry level bosses being easier then those further in. easy mode (hard modes are the real normal mode) was the worst thing blizzard could have done. It makes thing redundant and boring.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    290
    We're still having this discussion? People have been mourning the loss of difficulty in this game since WotLK was in beta two years ago.

    It's a simple answer, people. This game is the way it is because Blizzard wants it to be that way. If you're enjoying it, play it. If you're looking for more of a challenge than it's giving you, move on.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    22
    like i said....if it doesnt change in cataclysm im quitting for good.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    785
    You cant deny that Blizz has indeed dumbed the game down. They try to cater to the hardcore and casuals but in the end the middle tier kind of gets screwed. They should have just stuck to TBC model with the nerfing bat system, all while having more puggable raids.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    45
    Couple things here.
    One, I find your view on stats to be overly simplistic.
    With the surplus of different stats, differentiating between different gear can be very difficult.

    Examples: Im wearing an Ilvl 264, and we do 10 man icc, and another item for that slot drops.
    Well it is a 251 so most people would think its worse, but it has arp instead of hit and im over hit cap.
    Thus the item is better.


    Also I argue that with the restructuring of talent trees, talents also become easier. With most talent builds now, you have so many mandatory talents. However most people dont work together to spread out key buffs and free up talent points. In cata, you will be hard pressed to make a talent tree without key buffs, you will be choosing between fluff, which means, you could not spend say 3, 5, or maybe even 7 talent points and see no loss to dps, hps, or dtps.

    Example: The marksman talent spec is pretty much set, however there are a number of talents that are beneficial to the raid. Take improved hunters mark, also glyphing said mark. It is a dps loss for the hunter, but then another hunter gets true shot aura so he doesn't have to, etc.


    I also don't think path of the titans will make the game harder.
    I predict it to be like glyphs, where you have a bis set, with minor superfluous benefits.



    Overall, will Cataclysm make the game TOO EASY? No, but the game has been dumbed down considerably, and is on the path to continue doing so.

    Yet, as pointed out, there will still be failures, who can't grasp this easy game.

  12. #12
    I just downloaded this movie through the donor service and the sound is broken.
    All previous weekly marmots have worked fine (and indeed still do - I just tested the last 4 ones and the sound is fine).

    So perhaps you changed your encoder settings somehow? Please change it back :P

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    52
    Quote Originally Posted by Razzdango View Post
    like i said....if it doesnt change in cataclysm im quitting for good.
    Cataclysm will not bring about a different mindset encounter-wise.
    I read in a blue somewhere that they think Ulduar was too hardcore, which in my opinion was the best made instance of the expansion (for many reasons).

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by Daxwax View Post
    Cataclysm will not bring about a different mindset encounter-wise.
    I read in a blue somewhere that they think Ulduar was too hardcore, which in my opinion was the best made instance of the expansion (for many reasons).
    Hmm I think I read the same post but it was not meant as being too hard but too big. It was big beautiful but a bitch to get all the way through. For someone who had the time it was no trouble getting through it but for someone with limited time it was very hard. After a while it also got a bit monotonous.

    As for Hard modes I think they are a brilliant concept but they have not been handled well. The simple UI shift is a little boring and too much of the hard mode is just more Health and Damage. Now this move can work with some encounters (Saurfang and the Queen come to mind) but to truly make an encounter harder, and thus split the cream from the milk, the mechanics of the fight has to change in some meaningful way. Sartharion still stands as a poster child in this respect. A fairly simple fight on its own equal to Onyxia or most of MC and BWL in difficulty. However add the drakes and the fight gets a lot harder. Suddenly you have a hard dps timer, more adds, a portal mechanic with powerful debuffs (or buffs for the boss) and you still have to deal with the flame waves and the normal adds. In Ulduar you saw lots of these kinds of things too: Flame Leviathan, The Assembly of Iron, Thorim, Freya, Mimiron and of course Yogg'saron herself (XT also had a hardmode that changed the fight radically but in my opinion that just made the fight easier and not harder) These are fights where the hard mode is not just some small thing but a really big thing and that is how it should be.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    1,632
    Quote Originally Posted by Mhoram View Post
    We're still having this discussion? People have been mourning the loss of difficulty in this game since WotLK was in beta two years ago.

    It's a simple answer, people. This game is the way it is because Blizzard wants it to be that way. If you're enjoying it, play it. If you're looking for more of a challenge than it's giving you, move on.
    With all due respect, I don't subscribe to your statement. We (the players) have every right to voice our concerns about the game to the dev's in hopes of change we feel is needed. Just because blizzard wants things to be one way does not mean we have to agree with them or move on. There have been many meaningful discussions on these forums that have helped shape the game and probably in different directions than blizzard intended.

    As far as Cata goes, I'm hoping for something in between BC and the over casualization of Wrath. And yes Ulduar Hard Modes is where they got it right. Complete replica instances and replica loot with a hair more stats is about as uninteresting as it gets.
    There is something so appealing about backhanding someone across the face with a shield.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    141
    One thing that could happen with the new talent system in Cataclysm is that the game is more accessable because you don't need to put effort into knowing what's the right gear choice because you can easily see if this item is an upgrade or not. Especially with reforging you can eliminate to much hit on your gear.

    It was never a problem to know which items/enchantments/glyphs/gems are the best for your role/spec but you had to know where to get this information. With Cataclysm (at least this is what the new stat-system should do) you don't need this anymore because the whole system is simplified (simplified in a good way).

    Also with the overhaul of the talenttrees there is much more room for talents that are fun to play with. Think of 76 points you could spend into talents like extra proccs (as in the armstree) or utility-talents such as warbringer of even metamorphoses like the demonology-warlock. This can make the gameplay of WoW much more dynamic an fun.
    At the moment (at least for the roles/classes I play) there are perhaps 1 to 3 different specs that are viable for the raidconent/pvp (I admit that I don't have much pvp-knowledge).
    They only differ in few talentpoints that don't have a huge impact on the way you preform in raids (maybe putting talentpoints into improved demoralizing shout has the biggest impact on the performance of a def-warrior but it won't has almost no affect the way you play your char).

    Blizzard has a huge chance here to bring more variety into the game but there is also the chance that they screw it up so that the choices you have are nonexistent just like now (the chances are 50:50 I guess :P ).

    Will the difficulty of the game suffer from the new stat-system or the new talent-trees?
    No it won't because its all about the raidbosses (as I said I don't do pvp). If the encounters are hard than the game difficulty will be hard it they are easy the game will be easy.
    The problem Blizzard has is that the WoW-engine and the script-based bosses don't leave much room for improvements.
    In the past 5 years all has been done and bosses nowadays have many many elements where you can say: "Oh this is like the skill from boss abc or you can survive this like skill xyz form this boss etc."

    So the really big question for Cataclysm is: Can Blizzard create bosses that feel new and challenging and are not hard to beat because they have a insane amount of hitpoints. If Deathwing is just Nefarina+Onyxia but with 3 billion hp he will be boring as hell .
    Wer reitet so spät durch Nacht und Wind?
    Es ist der Kodo mit seinem Rind.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    803
    For those of you that weren't around at the start (or don't recall), WoW has always been more user friendly (catering to a larger group) than it's competitor's. When it was released originally it was one of a very select few MMO's that allowed for solo play (and thus more people at max level). It has only moved more towards the larger group since then. If you are hoping Cataclysm will move towards less groups capable of completing end-game content, you are probably going to be disappointed.

    Blizzard is first and foremost a large company, the goal of which is to make money. Catering to the elitist MINORITY is not a sound economic decision when you can cater to the "casual" MAJORITY. Not to mention all those poor TBC Devs, whose content was never seen by 90% of the player base because it was tuned only for the elite.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    726
    Quote Originally Posted by Volador View Post
    If you are hoping Cataclysm will move towards less groups capable of completing end-game content, you are probably going to be disappointed.
    This. If you think normal mode raiding will be any less accessible in Cataclysm than it is now, you're going to be disappointed. The days where you could simply get raid gear and be special are forever gone. If that's what you want, you're playing the wrong game now. End of story.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    your moms house
    Posts
    1,619
    Quote Originally Posted by Mhoram View Post
    We're still having this discussion? People have been mourning the loss of difficulty in this game since WotLK was in beta two years ago.

    It's a simple answer, people. This game is the way it is because Blizzard wants it to be that way. If you're enjoying it, play it. If you're looking for more of a challenge than it's giving you, move on.
    I am convinced that the only reason the wow population is still huge, is because there is no other MMO that measures up to wow at all.

    I think ciderhelm's post about what blizzard needs to change if they hope to keep this game rolling is spot on. The game isnt getting easier. its just that people who have been playing this game for a few years already are familiar with all of the boss tactics. blizzard really needs to think of new things, void zones and ticking raid damage is getting boring.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    1
    I think we are all skipping over the REALLY big and important question here...

    Who was the chick who laughed at the end of the video?!?!
    If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything. -Malcom X

+ Reply to Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts