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Thread: Taking massive damage in raids.

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Taking massive damage in raids.

    Hi! Yes I am new to posting on these forums just to say. But hopefully someone could tell me if this is something I should be expecting or if it could possibly be something wrong with my gear/spec or something that I could do to prevent things like this from happening.

    Anyway I have an 80 Prot Warrior http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...stone&cn=RunixI have mostly T9 with a few odds and ends to go with it. According to things I've read I should be focusing on 10/25 ToC in order to upgrade my gear, even though I believe WoWHeroes and GS say I should be able to work on higher end raids. But I noticed about 2 weeks ago AFTER I had cleared a 10 ToC and received a few upgrades (Sword at the time, Shield and trinket) when I pugged a 25 ToC that i was taking 22k damage from mobs like Gormok and Acidmaw/Dreadscale. I waited out the week and figured I would just go back to 10 ToC with my new frost badge cloak, saronite swordbreakers, and Rimefangs Claw, and Take a look soley at what was happening to me. I couldn't even manage to down Gormok this time without taking a dive. I took a 17k hit from impale (non critical) and died shortly thereafter. Ultimately getting booted from the raid.

    I guess the real question is since I'm fairly new to raid tanking; Is this something that is wrong with me/gear/spec or is it a healing issue? I've healed this instance when it first came out and I don't remember seeing tanks in Ulduar gear taking hits like this, or dropping like a fly after a few hits.

    Stats before anyone asks
    Def 558
    Armor 25915
    HP 35167
    Dodge: 28.95%
    Parry: 20.71%
    Block: 16.32%

    Also things I have made sure of while tanking.
    Boss is in front of me
    Shield Block is always on CD when I am tanking it
    Glyph of Blocking I keep active

    Any help would be helpful. I've asked a lot of people I have raided with and others that I haven't that would be considered high end raiders and no one can figure it out. TIA

  2. #2
    The biggest problem I see is your trinkets, you should be using EH trinkets over avoidance, get the Glyph of Indominability from triumph emblems and The Black Heart from reg ToC
    Enchant your shield for +18stamina, Titanium Plating isn't good for raiding.
    I would re-enchant your cloak to +225 armor over your 23agil flexweave as well.
    You could drop your glyph of schockwave for glyph of shield wall.

    other than that it seems like you just need to gear up some more.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    Just some things off the top of my head that would help

    Pick up Glyph of Indom. from the triumph badge vendor, its a really nice trink and will help boost your survivability against physical damage with all the extra armor. Both of the trinkets you have on now are... well... considered kind of bad. Also, farm reg toc for The Black Heart if you don't already have it. This is an awesome trinket that has the possibility to carry you all the way to ICC 10.

    Your Gems look Great, however your enchants... As an engi you have access to an AWESOME enchant for you gloves that gives you +855 armor, but your using the +parry and threat one. That enchant is generally thought to be inferior to the stam one and much inferior to the armor engineering one. Definently stick the plus armor on you hands.
    Also you shoulder enchant should be pvp +30 stam plus 15 resilience one sold for 10k honor (iirc) from org. [Greater Inscription of the Gladiator] is what it is called. You have enough Def. where you should be able to take the reduction in def and still be at the soft cap and crit immune.
    And what is Mind Amplificatio Dish doing on your helm? Drop that like a bad habit and replace with the one from the Argent Crusade quartermaster (now that i look at it your only friendly with the Argent crusade, once you get to honored stick the [Arcanum of the Fleeing Shadow] on your helm, and when you work your way to revered stick [Arcanum of the Stalwart Protector]. That is unless you are at least revered on another alt, in which case the enchants are now BoA and can be mailed to any character on your account.)
    I know the parachute is cool, but [Enchant Cloak - Mighty Armor] for the +225 armor is the best static EH enchant. I know it gives agility but agility is not the best EH stat.
    The +18 stam enchant for your shield is the one you want to use.

    Other than that, the damage is kind of spikey in ToC from time to time (this was the main reason Chill of the Throne was implemented). You are Definently geared for ToC. My guess is it was a healer problem. If the healers fall asleep at the wheel that can definently lead to your death. Also, at how many stacks of impale were you taunting on? If you were taunting at more than two stacks, i would definently bring it back down too two.

    Just like Dasver said, try sticking the glyph of shield wall in, it brings down the CD on shield wall (with improved disciplines) to an awesome two minutes. (even if it only reduces damage taken by 40% its still an awesome resource to have)

    One more thing
    AFTER I had cleared a 10 ToC and received a few upgrades (Sword at the time
    If you picked up the sword off of anub use that instead of rimefangs claw. The extra armor it adds is so awesome, infact the heroic 245 version is considered one of the BiS weapons for tanks.
    Last edited by eazo; 03-17-2010 at 07:53 AM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
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    I can tell what your problem is right now.

    25915 armor.

    You need to increase that.
    RNGesus - Saving you unreliably since BC.
    http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/v...ellvarsig3.jpg

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
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    Aside from the advice already given, 25 man raids are balanced around a more complete arrangement of buffs and Debuffs.

    Don't hesitate to use Indestructible Potions and Elixirs of Protection if the benefit is larger then Flask of Stoneblood.

    Gormakk hits hard, esp once several Snowbolds have been launched. Cooldowns should be saved for later in the fight where multiple stacks are present on Gormakk, as that's when he'll be hitting the hardest.

    It is also quite possible that no attack power debuff was present on Gormakk. You can supply one and against the melee powerhouse that Gormakk is, it can make a significant difference. You additionally may be taking to many stacks of the Impale Bleed, how many you switch on is dependent on how many tanks you end up using.

    As far as the worms go, you ideally want to tank Acidmaw until your gear is better. This is due to the fact Dreadscale will Enrage and hit that tank harder after Acidmaw's death, and until you can get a few pieces you may want to let a higher geared tank handle that. Remember that the movable worm lays down poison clouds and you must not stand in them any longer then necessary.

    You did not mention Icehowl, but he will stun you while you tank which effectively makes your avoidance 0%. Due to your low armor, this is esp lethal to you and could result in your death if the healers are slacking.

    The best advice for you is to change your trinkets to at least Glyph of Indom and Black Heart, add armor to cloak and gloves and make sure you keep Thunderclap and Demo Shout (or equivalent ) on the NPC you are fighting.

    More information on Attack Debuffs can be found here
    Last edited by Fenier; 03-17-2010 at 09:13 AM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    "The best advice for you is to change your trinkets to at least Glyph of Indom and Black Heart, add armor to cloak and gloves and make sure you keep Thunderclap and Demo Shout (or equivalent ) on the NPC you are fighting."

    Sorry I'm bad at forums and I doubt the reply came out the way it was meant to. Either way...

    Yeah I was making sure i was throwing Demo out and always kept TC up. Impales were taunted on no more than 3 stacks. If my impale wore off before the other tank had his 3rd stack I would tank anyway to help keep the lowest amount of stacking damage we could possibly have. The reason i did not mention really either of the worms or Icehowl is because I have not been able to even get to them without dying twice (Brez) And the last time I was able to get to them I had no problems.

    ALOT of people on my server after looking at my gear said go pure agility (mongoose on weapon, agi to cloak) When I looked at the small increase in dodge for it I asked myself why? So when I obtained the frost badge cloak I threw the flexweave on it. I will definately replace that enchant momentarily with the armor and put the Engi enchant on gloves. The Dish on the helm was there for stam. Just to justify that one lol.

    I guess the overall question is what should my raw armor look like before I try to go back in there without it being a wipefest on my part? I've seen many tanks with only about a 1000 more armor that I have, So what is a good % to look for?

  7. #7
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    Jun 2009
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    You want over 60%, the closer to 65% the better.

    Tanking is a two-part setup. You can only do so much, but you will still die if the healers are bad, make sure your announcing tank switches and there should at least be one dedicated healer assigned to you for Gormakk.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenier View Post
    You want over 60%, the closer to 65% the better.
    I just want to make sure I'm doing my part to make sure I'm not the reason the raid is wiping because I'm getting smacked around for ~1/2 of my HP every few hits. As of right now I'm at 64.29% with 27427 Armor by changing just my cloak, hand, shoulder enchants to what you guys said would be better. And I'll be farming for the ToC trinket tonight. That should help boost my HP as well so people won't complain about me being so low. If someone else says I should change out my Dish on my helm to the Argent Crusade one I will. But after I get my trinket I may give raiding another go. I don't remember how to rank the posts that helped me but I really appreciate all the help on this and I want to thank all of you for your input.

  9. #9
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    A good tank always checks what they are doing when the raid is wiping before blaming/looking anywhere else. You are on the right track already by coming here for advice, keep poking around the forums to check out the other info. Aggathon's Prot Warrior guide is a great resource as well.
    RNGesus - Saving you unreliably since BC.
    http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/v...ellvarsig3.jpg

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Runix View Post
    I took a 17k hit from impale (non critical) and died shortly thereafter. Ultimately getting booted from the raid.

    I guess the real question is since I'm fairly new to raid tanking; Is this something that is wrong with me/gear/spec or is it a healing issue?
    I just noticed that everyone gave you gear advice and ignored what IMO is the main problem. You're new to tanking and haven't learned how to handle the boss yet.

    A 17k impale is actually pretty normal from him. The trick is reducing the damage as much as possible when he get 3 or 4 stacks of rising anger. At this point of the fight, everytime it's your turn to tank him you have to keep a cooldown up. Shield Wall is best, but Last Stand + Enraged regen will also see you through it.

    Shield Wall only lasts 12 seconds, so it won't cover the entire time you tank him, so you'll want to time it so that Shield Wall will catch both impales (they come ~10 seconds apart). I'm not sure how often ppl swap on 25 man. But if it's every 3 impales, then you go ahead and eat the first one without a cooldown.

  11. #11
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    Another tip for Gormok: As I recall (and god knows I never remember myself), Gormok can be disarmed. Doing that once he gets a few stacks on him isn't a bad idea.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Muffin Man View Post
    I just noticed that everyone gave you gear advice and ignored what IMO is the main problem. You're new to tanking and haven't learned how to handle the boss yet.

    A 17k impale is actually pretty normal from him. The trick is reducing the damage as much as possible when he get 3 or 4 stacks of rising anger. At this point of the fight, everytime it's your turn to tank him you have to keep a cooldown up. Shield Wall is best, but Last Stand + Enraged regen will also see you through it.

    Shield Wall only lasts 12 seconds, so it won't cover the entire time you tank him, so you'll want to time it so that Shield Wall will catch both impales (they come ~10 seconds apart). I'm not sure how often ppl swap on 25 man. But if it's every 3 impales, then you go ahead and eat the first one without a cooldown.

    This

    Tanking 25 mans will be forcing u to take amounts of dmg that are around that. I think even on marrowgar 10 he sometimes pulls 21k hits on a special attack. If u know ur about to take some dmg than prepare urself to pop a cd. Ur healer should also be prepared to work a little extra hard during these parts of a fight. Not saying though that it is the healers fault if u die from burst dmg. All ur cd's should be ussed up every fight(by the end). Other than that it sounds like ur doing ur job. Have fun in future raids and hopefully all these posts by people will help u live a bit longer

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