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Thread: Stance switching. When and between what

  1. #1
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    Stance switching. When and between what

    As far as i know the best stance for tanking is defensive stance. But recently i had some other warrior telling me i shouldnt be in defensive because i was generating too much threat to the rest of the group what made us wipe ? Is that true? Better tank in battle stance? idk.. the 10% damage reduction and pulling threat seems to me as a really good thing to do as a tank. (i always believed the extra threat was going to me and not the party, but he said it did and i wasnt going over the threat of other tanks when they needed rage)

    Now.. im a beginning tank, so im still learning and the stance switching is something i still not really have down. While leveling i used mostly battle stance. i didnt know any good warriors so i stayed in that stance most of the time. With 5 mans i learned to use defensive stance but i see other tanks switching between stance (some more then others) but none of them can or want to explain why and at what point they are doing that.

    Any pro willing to explain this and make my day?
    Last edited by Dana; 03-16-2010 at 08:07 AM.

  2. #2
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    Were you doing festergut fight? Apart from using Retaliation I dont see any reason to swap stances as prot.

    Can you explain what were you doing when you were told to swap stances?
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/zuljin/gabbu/advanced

  3. #3
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    stupid lag made me double post sorry.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/zuljin/gabbu/advanced

  4. #4
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    I'm a little hazy, were you tanking when you pulled too much threat, or dps'ing?
    RNGesus - Saving you unreliably since BC.
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  5. #5
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    it was ToC Anub'arak yesterday but he said its was in genaral. not spec for that boss.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by MellvarTank View Post
    I'm a little hazy, were you tanking when you pulled too much threat, or dps'ing?
    forgot to answer that
    tanking

  7. #7
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    Well if you are attacking the target that he is supposed to be tanking, then you probably were pulling too much threat. I recommend you get an addon like Omen to monitor your threat. If you are both on the same target, only one of you should have threat. You don't have to switch stance, but you do have to make sure you aren't pulling off him continually.
    RNGesus - Saving you unreliably since BC.
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  8. #8
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    You should always be in defensive stance when tanking. Period. If you are stealing mobs from others through your normal single target rotation then they are likely failing. However, if you are AoE/cleaving their mobs before they have solid threat, you are screwing up and need to be more situationally aware about when you use multi-target threat abilities. Also, watch where you throw vigilance.

  9. #9
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    they are likely failing.
    I wouldn't say that. What if you have one tank that has 10k more health and 7k more armor than you do? They aren't failing, they are geared to take hits while you are geared for threat. They aren't failing, they are geared differently.
    RNGesus - Saving you unreliably since BC.
    http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/v...ellvarsig3.jpg

  10. #10
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    OK... assuming both tanks are gearing correctly (as in, not for threat) the other tank is likely failing. A warrior's single target threat abilities are not exactly capable of putting out enough sustained multi-target threat to pull additional mobs off of anyone with a slight clue.

  11. #11
    You seem to have some uncertainty about what you should be doing. The only time you should not be in defensive stance is when you are not tanking. Unless you are pulling aggro off another tank when you should not be, defensive stance is always superior for a Prot Warrior. More threat is never a bad thing when you are tanking. It sounds to me like this other warrior does not know what they are doing (optimistic) or he's intentionally feeding bad advice(pessimistic). If another tank needs to get a mob off you (ie DB Saurfang) then they should be taunting. Festergut is an exception to this rule, after you have been taunted off of in that fight you want to switch to battle stance.

    But Festergut is the exception, not the rule. In a nutshell stay in defensive stance when you are tanking, unless a fight has a specific mechanic requiring you to switch to battle. That other warrior is so very wrong and has some fundamental misunderstandings about threat.

  12. #12
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    Was he the other tank? Anub'arak doesn't require a taunt rotation. All I can think of is he was MT and you were OT and you kept pulling aggro on the last worm standing, the Yeti, and Anub'arak? This wouldn't be so bad for the party as it would be for you if the healers are expecting him to get the hits from the boss but you're the one taking damage.

    But if there's only one worm up, only 1 tank is really needed for that fight or the yeti, so if you went down because of that, there just wouldn't be an OH S&!^ tank for backup. Anub could be a problem if you pulled and died leaving no OT for the adds and they went wild on the healers. (Maybe the PvP part, I still struggle with that part).

    This is all that I can think of... otherwise, as everyone has stated, threat does nothing but keep the boss hitting you. It doesn't spawn more mobs or make him hit harder... Maybe if you filled in a little more about the specifics?

  13. #13
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    The only encounter where you should switch stances is Festergut. The only fights I can think of where threat would ever be a problem are tank swaps like Gormak, Saurfang and the like. If those are your trouble fights you should stop your rotation until the other tank has a decent threat lead but other than than you should never switch stances.

    True Knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing.
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  14. #14
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    I actually swap into Battle Stance once per fight to Shatter the boss (sometimes twice if its a long fight). You have to be quick about it though and it takes some getting used to, but it is a added benefit when you get it down right. All warriors prot or dps should be using their shatter at some point in a fight to increase physical DPS done to the boss, there is no reason not to use this to your advantage. We typically lay out a shatter rotation before hand or sometimes the Raid Leader just calls them out.

    Outside that there are only 2 situations you would swap stances:
    - Festergut 10/25. Due to the special DPS buff you get, you will pull threat if you do not swap to battle stance after the tank swap.
    - Faction Champions 10/25. To hamstring your assigned target to control.

    On swap fights you should hit ESC and stop attacking when the other tank taunts. Wait 5-10 seconds then resume attacking but watch your threat on Omen. If they are not able to get and hold aggro within that window, they are doing something horribly wrong. That or a hunter screwed up a MD or a rogue botched a tricks.
    There is something so appealing about backhanding someone across the face with a shield.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodasafa View Post
    I actually swap into Battle Stance once per fight to Shatter the boss (sometimes twice if its a long fight). You have to be quick about it though and it takes some getting used to....
    You can actually make a simple macro to do this for you:
    /cast Battle Stance
    /cast Shatter
    /cast Defensive Stance

    i'm not sure if switching stances triggers the global cooldown, (which would make the macro i've just shown fail) if it does then you can still use the second and third line and instead switch to battle stance and then hit this macro button. i know the stances are not on global cd, just not sure if they trigger it after use......

  16. #16
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    Festergut and PvP, that's really the only time I stance dance currently. With Warbringer giving me charge and intercept in Defensive Stance, I just don't see the need anymore in PvE.

  17. #17
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    Stances have their own CD which is separate from GCD
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/zuljin/gabbu/advanced

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inaara View Post
    The only encounter where you should switch stances is Festergut. The only fights I can think of where threat would ever be a problem are tank swaps like Gormak, Saurfang and the like. If those are your trouble fights you should stop your rotation until the other tank has a decent threat lead but other than than you should never switch stances.
    thank you for that information.

    as a reply to other posts:
    i am using omen, thats why i could see i wasnt going over the threat of the MT (which wasnt the person also that was telling me you always should tank in battle, he was doing DPS, his alt is a warrior)
    That i sound uncertain about the stance changes, thats true. I was under the impression that i should always tank in defense (like others confirmed here) but its like i said, im new to it and if some player thats been playing for a long time says things like that i usealy listen to it. i try to team up with other tanks to see what they are doing and some guys just switch stances 2 or 3 times in 1 fight. Thats why i was asking about that.

    The stance changing for shatter i will remember, that makes sense

    Thanks for the help.

  19. #19
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    I prefer this (it does the same thing in essence):

    #showtooltip Shattering Throw
    /cast [nostance:1] Battle Stance
    /cast [stance:1] Shattering Throw


    I use that for PvP mainly, and sometimes in PvE. It checks to see if you're in Stance 1 (Battle), if not, it casts Battle Stance. Then it casts Shattering Throw. You can add /cast Defensive Stance to the end if you want it to put you back into Defensive stance, but I have all my stances keybound anyways, so I prefer not to do that. Remember if you do add the Defensive Stance at the end, you will have to hit the button twice to go back into Defensive Stance as stances have their own 1.5sec CD .

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dana View Post
    thank you for that information.

    as a reply to other posts:
    i am using omen, thats why i could see i wasnt going over the threat of the MT (which wasnt the person also that was telling me you always should tank in battle, he was doing DPS, his alt is a warrior)
    That i sound uncertain about the stance changes, thats true. I was under the impression that i should always tank in defense (like others confirmed here) but its like i said, im new to it and if some player thats been playing for a long time says things like that i usealy listen to it. i try to team up with other tanks to see what they are doing and some guys just switch stances 2 or 3 times in 1 fight. Thats why i was asking about that.

    The stance changing for shatter i will remember, that makes sense

    Thanks for the help.
    You should really be in Defensive Stance when tanking, just be sure not to overcome the MT's threat when you shouldn't be. Defensive Stance allows you to stay 2nd in threat in case the MT dies, the mob will go after another tank instead of that squishy rogue or warlock back there. Not to mention that a fair bit of mobs/bosses will cleave or do some sort of AoE damage to those in melee range; being in defensive stance allows you to lessen this damage, since while in defensive stance you reduce all damage you take by 10%. You should never be tanking a mob in Battle Stance for 2 reasons, threat and damage intake. Otherwise, why not just tank as an Arms warrior?

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