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Thread: follow tanks, healers, please help me out here. I am a little furstrated.

  1. #21
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    psycho

    Your gears are fine and more than enough to tank festergut especially with the 5% bonus aura. In fact you have a higher gear score than me. You didn't mention demoralizing shout. Thunderclap and demoralizing shout debuffs must be on fester during the second and third inhale. Don't rely on anyone else to do this for you. Fester will hit you 5 times in a row. There is no way for you to avoid it. That is the effect of icecrown radiance. I would use trinkets, engrage regeneration, and pots for the second inhale. Use last stance and shield wall for the third inhale.

    At first glance, it sounds like a healer problem but we need an online combat log. Have you tried using the bear as the second tank to see if it would make any difference?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jin17 View Post
    Put the Last stand glyph back on and get rid of the devastate one.
    NO, just NO.
    Do NOT remove your devastate glyph. Before you do that, consider goning deeper into fury dropping deeps wounds spec and take improved demoshout and and have some free point for like, improved spellreflect for the extra spellavoidance. If your threat is still high enough, then consider it............maybe.

    Bad advice Jin, bad advice.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Darwar View Post
    psycho

    Your gears are fine and more than enough to tank festergut especially with the 5% bonus aura. In fact you have a higher gear score than me. You didn't mention demoralizing shout. Thunderclap and demoralizing shout debuffs must be on fester during the second and third inhale. Don't rely on anyone else to do this for you. Fester will hit you 5 times in a row. There is no way for you to avoid it. That is the effect of icecrown radiance. I would use trinkets, engrage regeneration, and pots for the second inhale. Use last stance and shield wall for the third inhale.

    At first glance, it sounds like a healer problem but we need an online combat log. Have you tried using the bear as the second tank to see if it would make any difference?
    No, we have not used the bear as 2nd tank. we have downed festergut each week for I think at least a month now.
    I brought up demo shout and thunderclap...I was told I didn't have to use them as dk has icy touch/ret pally with debuff proc etc. though I honestly don't rely on that

    also, I each arguement, I brought up top tanks go EH for ICC and they brush it off and said they can afford to since they already meet minium avoidance even with EH set...but all I am seeing is not just top tanks use, but tanks who are in progression guilds do go EH as well

  4. #24
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    also, I each arguement, I brought up top tanks go EH for ICC and they brush it off and said they can afford to since they already meet minium avoidance even with EH set...but all I am seeing is not just top tanks use, but tanks who are in progression guilds do go EH as well
    It isn't just top tanks. Current content favors EH (fact). That is subject to change, but the only real fight that favors avoidance currently is Anub 25 Heroic add-tanking.... and that is pure avoidance, not your "run of the mill" avoidance. (There may be more in heroic modes, but haven't found any info on that here.)

    I hate to say it, but your healers have their heads up their butts. Let the bear tank take the 3rd inhale, then they'll understand that it's not just your health yo-yo'ing, it's how hard the boss hits. Reality: gear EH for current content.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by psychocrasha View Post
    I brought up top tanks go EH for ICC and they brush it off and said they can afford to since they already meet minium avoidance even with EH set...but all I am seeing is not just top tanks use, but tanks who are in progression guilds do go EH as well
    This is why I posted information contrary to what Jin17 posted. Not because I discourage people from having different opinions, but that there have been numerous theory crafting discussions here and on other notable sites discussing the best possible way to gear, gem, enchant, and they all have the same conclusion, EH. There is a reason you see so many tanks going for EH, it works. The simple fact right now is in ICC the current content, EH wins hands down. There is no advantage to going "outside of the box" trying to pull off things most other tanks don't do. It dose not make someone special or unique. It just means they are not accepting the established findings of the tanking community and putting themselves at a disadvantage.
    There is something so appealing about backhanding someone across the face with a shield.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by orcstar View Post
    NO, just NO.
    Do NOT remove your devastate glyph. Before you do that, consider goning deeper into fury dropping deeps wounds spec and take improved demoshout and and have some free point for like, improved spellreflect for the extra spellavoidance. If your threat is still high enough, then consider it............maybe.

    Bad advice Jin, bad advice.
    I concur! Do NOT take out that Devastate glyph! It is just too useful to drop for Last Stand. For Fester you do not not need anything past standard cooldowns.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Brierley View Post
    I concur! Do NOT take out that Devastate glyph! It is just too useful to drop for Last Stand. For Fester you do not not need anything past standard cooldowns.
    I can confirm that I can live through his 3rd stack when I manage cooldowns smartly without the last stand glyph (and how does last stand glyph help with the fester fight when I only get to tank him ONCE..he's always dead before I had to tank him again).

  8. #28
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    As mentioned, IMHO it's an issue with your healers not understanding the dynamics of the fight... provided, of course, that you are chaining your cooldowns effectively. Whoever is #2 is in for a hell of a beating. Period.

    Regarding the suggestion to glyph Last stand. - No

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by psychocrasha View Post
    I can confirm that I can live through his 3rd stack when I manage cooldowns smartly without the last stand glyph (and how does last stand glyph help with the fester fight when I only get to tank him ONCE..he's always dead before I had to tank him again).
    It dose not in the slightest lol.

    Here's how I chain CD's, just to offer some info (tank 2 = me):

    Tank 1 - Pulls holds the boss for 9 stacks
    Tank 2- Taunts and mocking blows (to ensure the swap, in case taunt misses).
    Tank 2- Waits for Festergut to cast his 3rd Inhale (this happens shortly after the tank swap). When the 3rd Inhale has 2 seconds left on its cast I hit Last Stand and Enrage Regeneration. 2 seconds before Last Stands ends I hit Shield Wall.

    If you mess up the timing you can use a trinket or 2 at the end to ride out the rest of the 3rd Inhale as you must be covered by a CD for the entire duration.
    There is something so appealing about backhanding someone across the face with a shield.

  10. #30
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    If it's just Festergut giving you problems, and you don't mind glyph-swapping during the run, you could drop the Glyph of Shield Wall for that encounter and replace it with Glyph of Enraged Regeneration, to be used with Last Stand. Since you'll only be tanking the 3rd inhale once, that should give you maximum survival for that encounter. You'll probably want to swap back afterwards though.

    (Also, although I'm sure you already are, make sure you're keeping up Demoralizing Shout (or someone is, anyway), Thunderclap, and Commanding Shout)

  11. #31
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    He's glyphed for Shield Wall for that fight? That reduces SW's effectiveness by 20% in exchange for the short CD. I'd recommend *anything* but that glyph for Festergut.

  12. #32
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    I think this discussion has gotten a little off track, the simple truth to me is that regardless of the odd glyph choice, gem preference and enchant there is no way his health should be spiky or fatal on Fester 25man (assuming all cd's used properly), if your healers can't cope with the changing healing requirements of Fester - Putri P3, Sindrag and to a lesser extent BQL are going to cause you major headaches. Putri P3 especially is another example of where good communication and trust (that the job will be done) is vital between healers and tanks, I'd start with talking to them (include the druid tank and whoever your third tank is) and try and give (and receive) a better understanding of the particular tank (and healer) team strengths and weaknesses.
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  13. #33
    Thanks for the advice on Glyph of Enraged Regeneration...that seems like a good choice for this fight instead of shield wall glyph. And yes, taking off shield wall glyph would help a bit...though I also do agree with shorty that shouldn't be a life or death choice of glyph on Fester.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Shortypop View Post
    I think this discussion has gotten a little off track, the simple truth to me is that regardless of the odd glyph choice, gem preference and enchant there is no way his health should be spiky or fatal on Fester 25man (assuming all cd's used properly), if your healers can't cope with the changing healing requirements of Fester - Putri P3, Sindrag and to a lesser extent BQL are going to cause you major headaches. Putri P3 especially is another example of where good communication and trust (that the job will be done) is vital between healers and tanks, I'd start with talking to them (include the druid tank and whoever your third tank is) and try and give (and receive) a better understanding of the particular tank (and healer) team strengths and weaknesses.
    I will point them to read this thread and afterward if they still think avoidance is better, I will consider using avoidance trinket for the sake of team respect but wholeheartedly I know I should be using EH.

    Btw, I did have a talk with some of them and they are suggesting me as a main tank that I would help out the healers if I gear for more avoidance. They aren't worried about my armor and HP...they don't think if I lose 5% more physical damage reduction and at least 4-5k HP would impact on healing but that me loosing 5% avoidance means I am making it difficult for the healers. I don't play healers, it is not very easy for me to sort of verbally convince healers why my EH gearing is needed for most bosses even though I know why and how it is.
    Last edited by psychocrasha; 03-12-2010 at 10:56 AM.

  15. #35
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    Moved to HALP forum. Keep it civil.

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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by psychocrasha View Post
    I will point them to read this thread and afterward if they still think avoidance is better, I will consider using avoidance trinket for the sake of team respect but wholeheartedly I know I should be using EH.

    Btw, I did have a talk with some of them and they are suggesting me as a main tank that I would help out the healers if I gear for more avoidance. They aren't worried about my armor and HP...they don't think if I lose 5% more physical damage reduction and at least 4-5k HP would impact on healing but that me loosing 5% avoidance means I am making it difficult for the healers. I don't play healers, it is not very easy for me to sort of verbally convince healers why my EH gearing is needed for most bosses even though I know why and how it is.
    Terrible idea.

    Sometimes you just have to let your healers know they are dropping the ball.

    Chain your available cooldowns, then at 10 seconds until pungent blight get a pain suppression or some other external cooldown. If you're still dieing then your healers are just fail, unless you know, you're like turning away from the boss and letting him hit you in the back. Statwise and gearwise however, you are more than capable of surviving that fight, and stick with the EH and stam gems.

  17. #37
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    My personal opinion is that it is a differnce in the healer's strategies that's causing a problem.

    The theory behind war tanking vs bear is that bear gets hit harder, but has a much larger pool to soak. Warriors, on the other hand, have a smaller pool, but get his less hard. So on bear tanks, you can afford to use big fat heals for slow, bursty HPS, as opposed to a more steady stream of somewhat smaller heals for warriors. If your healers are winding up the same big huge heavy heals they're used to dropping on a bear, you could well be dead while they're still charging them holy lasers. Esp since Fester hits fast AND hard at 3 inhales. They probably let the bear take a few shots, then blsat him up to full with a huge bursty heal and repeat.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Eisen View Post
    My personal opinion is that it is a differnce in the healer's strategies that's causing a problem.

    The theory behind war tanking vs bear is that bear gets hit harder, but has a much larger pool to soak. Warriors, on the other hand, have a smaller pool, but get his less hard. So on bear tanks, you can afford to use big fat heals for slow, bursty HPS, as opposed to a more steady stream of somewhat smaller heals for warriors. If your healers are winding up the same big huge heavy heals they're used to dropping on a bear, you could well be dead while they're still charging them holy lasers. Esp since Fester hits fast AND hard at 3 inhales. They probably let the bear take a few shots, then blsat him up to full with a huge bursty heal and repeat.
    well our bear tank as far as I know isn't gear for EH but avoidance (meaning also agility gems, dodge etc) and his HP pool at the time I asked was not at 40k unbuffed...though now it could be around 40

  19. #39
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    Keep in mind that agility=armor and dodge for tanks... Druids can stack agility which translates into massive armor.
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  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by MellvarTank View Post
    Keep in mind that agility=armor and dodge for tanks... Druids can stack agility which translates into massive armor.
    I do know that. But agility gives them more dodge also...isn't this another reason they can be gearing for avoidance but they still can have high armor? which is not the case for other plate tanks or am I wrong on that

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