Pally Tank Threat Issues

[tanknstuff]

I have been tanking for a while now and I get complaints of not being able to hold threat on multiple mobs. I use Righteous Fury as you should, Blessing of Sanctuary and Seal of Vengeance up. I use the standard 69696 rotations for tanking and I think my build is comparable to other pally tanks. My DPS in Prot form is 2k+ as well. Any advice?

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...&cn=Tanknstuff

Thanks in advance...

[Krays]

I cant really comment on your rotation and playstyle, since i dont know what you are doing, but the first step would be to try and fix your playstyle so you do more threat. Cycle throught your targets using tab, to make sure everything is attacking you using taunt, hammer, Shor etc, the 69 rotation isnt something you would worry about for trash, since you will be tabbing so much and stuff dies so fast. Also use Avenging shield to start the fight. Make use of wings more often too. Make sure casters are silenced using avenging shield so they run to you and then get caught in your aoe.

With your spec, its a bit outdated tbh, use something like

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZV0tAbuMusIufdtsMzbc

This spec is what most raiding tanks will use.

You can get even more threat by using..

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#sZV0xA0ugusIufzts0dbc

The above spec would probably never be used by a raiding tank, but its threat potential is huge.

THe reason you dont take 2/2 SA, is cause its apparntley overkill, and 2/2 imp judges, is supposed to mess up the 69 rotation.

The reason you take seal of command is because for trash mobs, its better than seal of vengenace. For bosses ofc stick with seal of v. Try all that and see how you fair.

Good luck.

[tanknstuff]

Thanks for the input. I will give these a try.

[Theotherone]

I don't understand why Pursuit of Justice is taken?

[Harmacy]

Krays is correct about your spec, however he's wrong about one thing: 2/2 Imp Judgements doesn't mess up anything, you just hit the button a second after it comes off CD. Once in a blue moon the extra 1 sec is useful, just like once in a blue moon a point in Benediction will make some kind of difference. Put that last point where you like.

Question for the OP - is it that you can't GET aggro, or that you can't HOLD sustained aggro? If the DPS is ripping off you before you can get a couple SoV stacks up, switch to Command (I just use it for heroics and raid trash, maybe Gunship adds). Use SoV for any boss or any fight that will last long enough for you to get your stacks up to 5 on multiple targets.

Pursuit of Justice is totally optional, but I really recommend some sort of speed boost (be it a talent or boot enchant) to any raider, especially melee, and especially especially a tank. So if you're just running heroics it's probably a waste - if you're raiding, it's a very good investment of those two points but still optional (you can put those two points in Conviction and stick with your boot enchant if you'd like).

Some other stuff about your armory:

- Get Glyph of Divine Plea. If you have no single-target threat issues, get rid of Judgement.

- Blade Ward is inferior to Mongoose for a Paladin. I would hold off on replacing it until you get a nicer weapon (if you start doing ICC 10, there's an extremely nice one off the first boss) but it's something to keep in mind for when you do.

- Titanium Plating is OK for heroics or trash, or for single-target threat, but as a raider you would get more from +18 stam. If you're not raiding, ignore this.

Other than that, you're doing quite well with gear and stuff. Good luck and enjoy Seal of Command (it rocks)

[Mawini]

I don't understand why Pursuit of Justice is taken?

PoJ gives you more EH (if indirectly) and more movement speed than any alternative. I don't know how paladin tanks justify NOT taking it.

[tanknstuff]

Ok, my issue is not getting aggro, its holding it. I get mobs ripped off me by DPS all the time before I can get SoV stacks up on all. I tab through targets as well.

One thing I don't understand is why Mongoose is superior to Blade Ward? I'm an enchanter so doing this isnt a big deal for me. I have actually looked into this a little, however it seems to be up for debate still.

I will change specs as recommended, however it seems there are a few questions about a few final talent points.

[Theotherone]

PoJ gives you more EH (if indirectly) and more movement speed than any alternative. I don't know how paladin tanks justify NOT taking it.

I have Tuskar's Vitality on my boots now (both my tanks do), so I didn't put the 2 points into PoJ - http://www.wowarmory.com/character-t...raw&gn=Imprint.

I guess you could argue over the IBoM (that point could go into Improved Judgments, leaving me a point to put into Seal of Command, but I've grown comfortable with Seal of Vengeance. Actually, I have the urge to put the point back into Spiritual Attainment to have 2 there since in 5 mans I'm manna starved, but then I have to remember it's not an issue in ICC since I take damage in there.

[Harmacy]

Mongoose is superior for Paladins because it has a much higher uptime for us than it does for Warriors (thanks to the way our Judgements and Seals work), because it isn't removed on parry (one Mongoose proc can last you several dodges), because it has a much bigger effect on threat (haste and crit are much much stronger than a tiny amount of damage on parry), and because it gives you a small amount of armor.

Also, it's less expensive and looks a lot cooler.

So Mongoose is fantastic for a Paladin, for a mix of threat, avoidance, and a small amount of EH. Accuracy is the best threat enchant (assuming you're not hitcapped from gear), and Blood Draining, while not really EH, is the biggest direct contributor to your survival.

Although I'd say if you're having issues with DPS ripping off you before you can even get a SoV stack up, you should see if Seal of Command helps you - weapon enchants aren't a big deal in that situation.

PoJ gives you more EH (if indirectly) and more movement speed than any alternative. I don't know how paladin tanks justify NOT taking it.

I wouldn't go that far. Move speed is NOT Effective Health. It is very useful but optional, those points can go into Conviction for extra threat if you need it (Tuskarr's can suffice). But if you don't need the threat, 0/5 Conviction to grab PoJ Vindication and SoCleave is a great idea.

[Mawini]

What I mean by that is you gain a small bit of EH due to being able to use the straight stam enchant, and you move faster because PoJ > Tuskar's. It's a gain on two fronts that really matter, and you really only lose out on a couple % crit (which doesn't matter in the least). For you I would recommend speccing out of improved might, into PoJ and SoC. I would further not even consider putting 2 points in SA for any paladin anywhere. It should have been a 1 point talent in the first place. If you're running OOM in heroics with sanc up, you are being overly cautious and should pull more mobs and/or swap on some dps gear. Also make sure you always hit the next pack within 15 sec of the last thing you melee to keep plea rolling. Even a healer in blues can keep up with the damage intake required to keep your mana bar full, if you're doing everything else right.

[Harmacy]

What I mean by that is you gain a small bit of EH due to being able to use the straight stam enchant, and you move faster because PoJ > Tuskar's. It's a gain on two fronts that really matter, and you really only lose out on a couple % crit (which doesn't matter in the least). For you I would recommend speccing out of improved might, into PoJ and SoC. I would further not even consider putting 2 points in SA for any paladin anywhere. It should have been a 1 point talent in the first place. If you're running OOM in heroics with sanc up, you are being overly cautious and should pull more mobs and/or swap on some dps gear. Also make sure you always hit the next pack within 15 sec of the last thing you melee to keep plea rolling. Even a healer in blues can keep up with the damage intake required to keep your mana bar full, if you're doing everything else right.

Ah, I forgot about that. 7 stamina is very little but I suppose it never hurts.

Crit does matter if you're having issues with sustained threat. For burst threat problems like the OP is having, don't bother. Just grab seal of cleave.

Agreed about SA, 2/2 is always overkill.

[Theotherone]

Also make sure you always hit the next pack within 15 sec of the last thing you melee to keep plea rolling.

DOH! Now I understand Guarded by The Light.