I am semi new to tanking in the begining WotLK dg's and just looking for comments/help on what i should be aiming for to be a better tank towards end game. http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...os&cn=Vizhkass. Im currently working on trying to get better trinkets but its a slow process, and replacing some of the BoE items i have. i am mostly aiming for gear that has stam/strength. my def is 500 which i see on the fourms is a nice start. any advice or suggestions would be very helpful.
Thanks In Advanced,
since you are not 80 I would not dwell on it too much until you are, but starting off just grinding dungeons and picking up tank gear as u go along is more than good. You don't have to worry about enchants/gems until you are trying to get those stats up for raiding. Once 80 you can then focus on farming heroics and getting your badge gear 232 tier/245 misc epics. That is when you will start worrying about stats. I personally put pure stam gems in blue sockets def/stam gems in yellow sockets. and Dodge/stam or parrry/stam gems in red sockets, because I stack mitigation rather than pure stamina like most tanks on my server. Especially being a pally even with the icc dodge gimps I have always liked my mitigation stats more than actual health. Though at my gear the health is part of the package since i'm sitting at 47k after sanctuary with no other buffs. I do not know all the math involved like some of these smarter people, when it comes to diminishing returns and things like that. I do however know that you should never underestimate your tanking mitigation stats. I never gem for hit/expertise and str like some tanks. At lower gear level you might find yourself in need of some hit, but in my experience if you farm all your badge gear since how much is so easily given to you. You should be hitting that hit cap without having to gem or enchant for it. I hope this was useful.
ON THAT NOTE I also have a post about my tanking since im at that higher end game gear.
Hi I am a protadin wanting to know if I will get more bang for my buck mitigation wise if I change oh say my dodge/stam gems with parry/stam gems. I currently stack mitigation rather than pure stam, only because I have seen many other tanks underestimate the greatness of prot pallies mitigation. I refuse to stack PURE stamina in every socket like others have told me. I may not have as much health as some of my other prot pally brethren, but I still tank icc 25m just fine whether in first wing or the other 8 bosses. I currently put def/stam in yellow sockets, mainly due to no other mitigation stats are on yellow gems. Defense may put me over cap, but it also raises my block/dodge/parry. In my red sockets I currently am using all dodge/stam gems. I just need to know when is a good time to stop using dodge/stam gems and get parry/stam gems. Or whatever else mitigation gems there are. Here is my wow armory sheet. Any help will do. Pls don't post saying you are fail doing it wrong and things like that. If you don't agree with how I am gemming/enchanting Post reasons why and choices as to how I should be doing it right. I just know so far this has been going great for me. http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...rom&cn=Azzirus
Originally Posted by azzirus
stamina stackign being the optimal set up is jsut how it is. cant be bothered to find the link but a blizzard employee quoted (roughly) 'when we introduced extra tiers we did not foresee how high avoidance would reach which is the reason for the dodge nerf, not to force people to stack more dodge, but to make them require more stamina to survive the mroe constant influx fo damage.' this does also mean healers can heal reactively instead of proactively for alot of fights.
but if you insist on matching sockets.
iirc doge/stam still has more benefit than parry/stam due to parrys DR still gimpig it in comparison to dodge.
i find it strange that you have the reverse vieww to most players : ' stack mitigation and health is part of the package' most players stack stam as avoidance and mitigstion on gear are currently plenty to get u nice and high up the DR curve.
Reason why I stack mitigation rather than PURE STAM, is because if I had pure 30 stam gems in my sockets that currently have def/stam or dodge/stam gems in them TOTAL STAM I would get a 92 stam increase but with the loss of all that dodge/parrry/block. So is 92 stam HONESTLY that much greater than the mitigation stats. What is the difference I would be losing (math wise) is it really worth it? If I honestly would be a better tank getting that 92 stam I wouldn't mind doing it but, not just because someone likes to see more health. I already have 47k with my sanc buff so after food buffs raid buffs and flasks im always well over 50k close to that 60k marker if not hitting it. I want to know the math behind the logic that makes 1 thousand health more important than the dodge/block/parry I get from stacking def/dodge in my socket bonuses. If I were to change all my dodge/stam gems over and def/stam gems over right now and this is including adding a plus 10 to stats gem to my best piece of gear giving me the most stamina for a socket bonus I would be gaining 92 stamina and LOSING 80 defense and 40 dodge. I do not know the math of how much mitigation that 80 defense and 40 dodge gives me but is 900 health honestly that much greater? that is my main question
Last edited by azzirus; 03-08-2010 at 11:22 AM.
Avoidance is not mitigation. Armor and spell resistance are mitigation stats. Avoidance is avoidance. It doesn't mitigate anything from a bosses physical or magical attack, and whatever avoidance you gained by losing several THOUSAND effective health just gives you a minute additional chance to avoid taking one to the face. Physical only, of course. Avoidance does nothing at all for magical damage, and you might as well not even have the stats on your gear.
Originally Posted by azzirus
Looking at your armory, you have used hybrid gems in 12 slots. And you are using an avoidance trinket. One of those purple hybrid gems is a requirement for your meta (and you keep the socket bonus of 9 stam), that's (11x15)-69= 96 stamina you would have, and you gained 122 worth of avoidance or defense ratings. Maybe it is 92, as you say, but I didn't get that doing quick head math. Yes, the same kind of simple math probably says to you "I got much more net benefit than gemming straight stamina! Sweet!"... hard mode bosses hitting you say otherwise. The 96 stamina you lost will give you around 3.5k more EH, which would have always improved your ability to survive concurrent/huge attacks. The avoidance you gained will consistently give you... nothing. Nothing consistently or reliably, anyway. Well, if your healers are healing reactively, they have more mana now pretty much guaranteed. They aren't, though, and never really will in this expansion if they like their tank to live. Every now and then you will dodge/parry an attack you would have otherwise been hit by, and it is of little/no real benefit if you are being hit hard.
Assuming you have an ilevel 245 armor/stam trinket to replace your avoidance trinket, you would gain an additional 7K effective health from either, although I prefer stamina in a toss up due to AD interaction and the presence of magical damage. Personal preference. ANYWAY... you have ~10.5k less EH than you could simply from gems and trinket choice.
What puzzles me about your armory, though, is that you have a worse (ilevel speaking) enchant in your gloves, shield, chest, and shoulders than you could have. If you were applying your gemming strategy to those items you would have picked different ones, but instead you did choose the "EH is best for tanking hard things" approach on your enchants. And if you are planning to tank anything difficult, that was the right choice and you should have your gems/trinket follow suit. Changing all of your gearset to focus on EH will give you a 100% chance to live through a >10k harder base physical hit from a boss, while leaving it as is will give you over a 95% chance (i.e. 100%- avoidance gain) to die to the same thing. It will make you better to gem/trinket straight EH. Hope this helps.
Disclaimer: My EH calculations are also in my head math, you should probably verify with real math before taking as 100% fact. Also, scratch all this if you only play easy-mode farm content, it does not matter there. Maximizing EH is only the good way to go if it gets put to use, and if you can take 4-5 hits from whatever you're tanking with no heals and still not die, you have way more than enough EH.