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Thread: Druid Bear Tank Hit Rating

  1. #1
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    Druid Bear Tank Hit Rating

    I'm trying to plan out my ideal list of upgrades; however, the upgrade list I've come up with would only give me 100 hit rating (from Ikfirus's Sack of Wonder). What I'm wondering is this: Will having such low hit be detrimental to my threat? In other words, will I have trouble tanking bosses and adds that need to be picked up and killed ASAP?

    My Upgrade List: http://www.wowhead.com/?profile=20843443
    Last edited by Nighthoof; 03-04-2010 at 05:22 AM.

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    Moved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazeyonoma View Post
    Moved.
    Thank you. It was embarrassing for my first post to be in the wrong forum. :X

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    I would say definitely yes. Every time you miss, you lose threat, the ability to proc your damage shield, and what'll probably happen to you is that your DPS will overtake you in DPS and eat boss strikes until they die.

    IMHO, you should try and keep your hit rating at the cap, even if it means you have to use less than optimum items. Your goal as the tank is to keep the boss from spreading the love to the DPS.

    I'm actually eyeing the same problem with some consternation; picking up the T10 pants this morning was an easy decision, since I didn't lose any hit and gained expertise. However, the second piece of T10 (for that tasty 2 set bonus) is a tougher sell: if I pick up the chest and Ikifuss' Sack of Wonder drops, I just wasted 95 badges (ow). If I pick up the shoulders, it's only a minor upgrade. (101->109 stam). The head and gloves are the biggest upgrade stamwise and agilitywise (in the double digits), but they're 90 and 59 hit, respectively. I've gemmed my new pants temporarily with a hit gem recognizing that possibility, but it looks like the sanest thing to do is pick up the shoulders first, even though my primary problem is being smacked down by Festergut. But hey, I have 5% more health for today, right? :P

    I have to admit, too, that I miss my two set T9 bonus (as loot luck would have it, I had replaced my other armor pieces so my T9 was gloves/pants). Tempted to pick up a T9-chest, while I'm waiting in line for the Sack to drop (I have three rogues and probably at least one of the hunters in line in front of me. :P), but it's a downgrade just for a 2 second taunt bonus. In -theory-, with the expertise, I should be able to keep threat, especially if I pick up the shoulders, right?

    (edited to add): Best thing for you to see this for yourself is to go down to the old target dummy, de-equip enough items to put you at 100 hit rating, and go to town. Run a meter (I recommend Skada) and after about 5 minutes, check your Miss+Dodge+Parry to hit ratio. Thanks to the folks on these forums, I've been doing my best to keep not just Miss off my attack table, but also Dodge (expertise soft cap) and Parry is next.


    -Tielyn
    Last edited by Tielyn; 03-04-2010 at 10:53 AM.

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    it happens, at least you recognized it and requested the move, rather than just sit in ignorance =]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turelliax View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tielyn View Post
    I would say definitely yes. Every time you miss, you lose threat, the ability to proc your damage shield, and what'll probably happen to you is that your DPS will overtake you in DPS and eat boss strikes until they die.

    IMHO, you should try and keep your hit rating at the cap, even if it means you have to use less than optimum items. Your goal as the tank is to keep the boss from spreading the love to the DPS.
    I've wondered about this. I'm sitting at 155 hit rating right now and things seem to be fine for tanking most of ICC 25. I guess I can take off my Ashen ring and do tests on a dummy, but theoretically I should be missing 5% at that point (with 100 hit rating). If I were to try and increase my hit rating, can anyone suggest replacements for my current gear upgrades list? Also, would gemming and/or enchanting for hit rating for yellow sockets be bad (my intuition tells me that this would not be ideal).

  7. #7
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    *snickers*

    "most" of ICC/25. Interesting choice of words there, big guy.

    You'll want to be sure to be hitting the Heroic training dummy, of course -- that is a level 83 mob, which is where the 8% hit (5 normal + 3 for level 3+ over yours) cap comes from. At your 155 hit rating, I think that's 4.72% hit, which if you have a Shadow Priest in your party (+1% hit) brings you up to 5% (always drop fractions) is why you're not noticing it on trash. The good thing about your proposed upgrades is that you have plenty of expertise rating, which knocks all the dodge off of your hit table, and some of your parry, but that 2%+3%=5% miss chance is pretty significant. I say this from the perspective of being hit capped and not being expertise capped, which was letting the nasties dodge and parry 6% of my attacks, where the rogues, paladins, and shammys were landing their attacks from behind and peeling things off of me.

    As far as gemming goes, you can, in fact, gem and enchant for hit if needed -- but try and itemize for it first, IMHO. You can probably go for 10 hit / 15 stam gems and not get too hurt on EH, with all 30 stam gems you can afford to lose some to get your hit cap in line.

    (edited to add
    two green gems: 10 hit, 15 stam x2 = 20 hit, 30 stam
    one yellow hit, one blue stam: 20 hit, 30 stam

    ...in other words, for an even number of slots, they're equal. Replacing an odd number of gem slots gives you the choice of half stam (green) or no stam (yellow) for more hit, You're not trying to go for your socket bonuses, so it's really just minmaxing your sockets 'til you get back to the cap.

    -Tielyn.
    Last edited by Tielyn; 03-04-2010 at 04:09 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tielyn View Post
    "most" of ICC/25. Interesting choice of words there, big guy.
    Yeah, haven't gotten past BQ and Sind yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tielyn View Post
    As far as gemming goes, you can, in fact, gem and enchant for hit if needed -- but try and itemize for it first, IMHO. You can probably go for 10 hit / 15 stam gems and not get too hurt on EH, with all 30 stam gems you can afford to lose some to get your hit cap in line.
    I can get around 6.25% unbuffed with hit/stam gems and by replacing the Band of the Twin Valkyrs with the Ashen ring. Do you think that would be a good place to be at? 1% miss chance with buffs. I'm not too enthused about losing the ~500 armor from the ring, though. Maybe there's a better alternative?

  9. #9
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    You can probably get away with 1% miss -- just remember that a lack of hit rating translates into a chance to have your taunts resisted/missed too, which on something like Festergut's 9 stack tank switch is going to cost you bigtime, which is part of why I say that 5% miss is less than ideal.

    Good luck!
    -Tie

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tielyn View Post
    You can probably get away with 1% miss -- just remember that a lack of hit rating translates into a chance to have your taunts resisted/missed too, which on something like Festergut's 9 stack tank switch is going to cost you bigtime, which is part of why I say that 5% miss is less than ideal.

    Good luck!
    -Tie
    True, but I'm pretty sure taunt is based on spell hit, so even with 8% melee hit there's still a small chance to miss. (I could be wrong, though.)

    I'd also be interested in hearing other people's input on the issue and their solutions if they believe hit rating plays a significant factor in tanking.

  11. #11
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    If you're concerned with Taunt resists then Glyph of Growl is the way to go. Taunts work off spell hit (17% to cap) and a glyph that adds 8% chance to Taunt's hit is much better than tossing in hit gems, and it doesn't cost you health or avoidance to use.

    If you're raiding 25mans you more than likely get 3% Spell Hit from Shadow Priest's http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=33193 and with the glyph you'll be at 11% Spell Hit combined, before any +Hit from gear is factored in. +Hit adds slightly more Spell Hit than it does Physical Hit, so check your character sheet to determine how much you really need.

    You should be fine on threat without being at 8% hit, liberal use of Maul and a proper rotation will make more of a difference than regemming.

    [Edit] For reference, I've ran with 3-4% Physical Hit on my druid and had no problems keeping aggro.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by GŁth View Post
    If you're raiding 25mans you more than likely get 3% Spell Hit from Shadow Priest's http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=33193 and with the glyph you'll be at 11% Spell Hit combined, before any +Hit from gear is factored in. +Hit adds slightly more Spell Hit than it does Physical Hit, so check your character sheet to determine how much you really need.
    Hmm, it looks like I could get 5.91% spell hit without gemming by replacing the Twins ring with the Ashen ring. I'm not too familiar with how Blizzard computes the numbers, though. I'd have 11% (glyph and priest buff) + 5.91% = 16.91% spell hit. Would that be rounded at all? Or would I just have a 0.09% chance to miss my taunt?

  13. #13
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    I'm trying to plan out my ideal list of upgrades; however, the upgrade list I've come up with would only give me 100 hit rating (from Ikfirus's Sack of Wonder). What I'm wondering is this: Will having such low hit be detrimental to my threat? In other words, will I have trouble tanking bosses and adds that need to be picked up and killed ASAP?
    No, you shouldn't have particular trouble because of that low hit.

    If you must have hit for growl, put on a DPS ring or something of that nature.

    And yes, you'd have a .09% chance to have a taunt miss.

    Really, while threat is good it's not the be all-end all of existence, and between ToT and MD most 25-man raiders never worry about it. I'd recommend not worrying about it either until you get to a point in which it might matter.

  14. #14
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    Yeah, I assumed you had the Glyph of Growl in there to add to your taunt hits.
    I think this is a 'YMMV' situation -- our guild doesn't have a lot of Shadow Priests (we have two, neither of which are regulars), and the bulk of our DPS raiders are melee heavy -- Paladins (mostly Human), Night Elf and Human Rogues, and two Fury Warriors. All of which get up close and personal and are aggro hogs. Our tanks (all three of them, myself included) are having issues keeping aggro off of them, because they're all competing to break 10K DPS, and our already overpowered Fury Warrior managed to get a hold of Shadow's Edge the other day, so with him and our 10.3K DPS Hunter, we've got three people who regularly need saving via taunts. :| And our hunters and rogues don't usually bother with MD or ToT unless 'we look like we need it', because it 'hurts their DPS' (in comparison with their peers for top gun slot).

    While tanking Festergut, the other tank leads off, and I can't keep up aggro (sitting squarely in fourth), so when the transition happens, I have to be sure my taunt will land. Otherwise our main tank gets his tenth stack of the debuff and explodes. :P So in my case, I need all the Hit I can keep to be near or at the hit cap.

    -Tielyn

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tielyn View Post
    Yeah, I assumed you had the Glyph of Growl in there to add to your taunt hits.
    I think this is a 'YMMV' situation -- our guild doesn't have a lot of Shadow Priests (we have two, neither of which are regulars), and the bulk of our DPS raiders are melee heavy -- Paladins (mostly Human), Night Elf and Human Rogues, and two Fury Warriors. All of which get up close and personal and are aggro hogs. Our tanks (all three of them, myself included) are having issues keeping aggro off of them, because they're all competing to break 10K DPS, and our already overpowered Fury Warrior managed to get a hold of Shadow's Edge the other day, so with him and our 10.3K DPS Hunter, we've got three people who regularly need saving via taunts. :| And our hunters and rogues don't usually bother with MD or ToT unless 'we look like we need it', because it 'hurts their DPS' (in comparison with their peers for top gun slot).

    While tanking Festergut, the other tank leads off, and I can't keep up aggro (sitting squarely in fourth), so when the transition happens, I have to be sure my taunt will land. Otherwise our main tank gets his tenth stack of the debuff and explodes. :P So in my case, I need all the Hit I can keep to be near or at the hit cap.

    -Tielyn
    If your dps is more concern with recount than downing a boss then yall are probably never gonna get through icc and for hit rating on festergut, your taunting the second the other tank gets 9 stacks which means even if you miss you still get a 2nd taunt and maybe 3rd b4 he explodes.

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