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Thread: Boomkin needs help

  1. #1
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    Boomkin needs help

    I would like some advice on what I can do to increase my dps? If I need to change spec/gems or what I need to do differently. I use the standard FF/moonfire/is then wrath spam till eclipse proc reapply dots as needed. I also try to use Starfall and treants when the cooldown is up and if I remember. My armory is http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...s&cn=H%C3%BCgs.''

    PSH,

    Hügs

  2. #2
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    Just out of curiousity, what DPS are you doing and under what context? It helps to gauge where you are at and what might be holding you back if I can tell just how far off target you are currently. Other than that I can just offer the generalized advice for a Balance Druid without a decent understanding of what will actually help you most. So here comes the monster reply with a little of everything.

    Self buffed against a target dummy I'd approximate your DPS at about 5995. Approximations were made on how much average crit rating you'd have out of the on use trinket and also full stack of the stacking trinket adding to spellpower. This approximation was made using the most recent version (100205, yymmdd) of WrathCalcs (Moonkin DPS spreadsheet). WrathCalcs and the EJ Moonkin guide can be found at: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-m...dated_3_3_2_a/
    P.S. Clearly I need to roll horde to get my trinket to drop cause Muradin's crew always brings his spyglass too him instead of leaving it in the chest for me.


    Spec
    Your spec currently over prioritizes mana efficiency beyond what you would still need. The only talent points I would consider misplaced are those spent in Intensity. A retribution paladin alone providing you with Kings, Heart of the Crusader debuff, and Replenishment increases your estimated time until out of mana up to 15 minutes (without Intensity). It's well past time to drop those two talent points since synergies will easily push up your efficiency. I would recommend throwing one point into Typhoon for it's situational usefulness like Deathbringer Saurfang. The other talent point you can stick into Gale Winds for a little better AoE DPS or into Genesis/Brambles for a very minor single target DPS improvement (Genesis and Brambles are the two weakest talents overall so most will take Gale Winds just to not suck so bad on AoE trash). The second point in Gale Winds would only come if you ran with higher hit rating such that you could drop one point in Balance of Power. But again at this point we are dealing with optional talents.

    Glyphs
    Your major glyphs are all correct. Moonfire, Starfire, and Insect Swarm are the top three DPS glyphs at all levels of progression. You shouldn't completely neglect your minor glyphs though. Unburdened Rebirth is recommended as a minor glyph for all specs to remove the reagent cost. Other than that the rest is pretty much optional. One that is commonly recommended for Balance is Glyph of the Wild because in situations where you are low on mana, the cost of casting Gift of the Wild is cheaper than Hurricane and you can use Gift of the Wild to try and force proc Omen of Clarity for a free Hurricane (in a 25 man raid with pets, this comes out in around a 95% chance to proc Omen of Clarity since it is based on the number of targets the spell was cast/channeled on, which is why Hurricane has a high tendency to proc it as well). However, like I said under spec, mana shouldn't really be an isue for you anymore so other than Unburdened Rebirth you can pretty much pick and choose anything you like (I personally use Aquatic Form and Dash cause I like movement improvements, more useful for PvP though).

    Enchants
    Only a few sub-optimal choices made here. The legs generally you would want to use Brilliant Spellthread instead of Sapphire Spellthread unless you need additional health for hard modes or it is PvP gear. For raw DPS, you still benefit some out of Spirit and should choose that over Stamina. The other mistake is your bracer enchant is sub-par. Only 23 spellpower instead of the 30 spellpower enchant. I suspect this largely has to deal with it being only a 200 item level piece that you hope to replace soon, but nonetheless I thought I should point it out.

    Gems
    There are a lot more mistakes being made in this department sadly. Here are some very general guidelines.
    First off, all red sockets are always filled with Runed Cardinal Ruby.
    If you have a one socket item with a yellow socket and a socket bonus of 5 spellpower, you should go for this bonus and use a Potent Ametrine to obtain it. Otherwise, use a Runed Cardinal Ruby and ignore the socket bonus.
    If you have a two socket item with at least one red socket and a socket bonus of 7 spellpower, you should go for this bonus and use a Potent Ametrine if the second socket is yellow or a Purified Dreadstone if the second socket it blue. Otherwise use Runed Cardinal Ruby in both sockets and ignore the bonus.
    If you have a three socket item with two red and one other or two yellow and one red that has a socket bonus of 9 spellpower, you should go for this bonus and use Potent Ametrine in any yellow socket, Purified Dreadstone in any blue socket, and Runed Cardinal Ruby in any red sockets. If the item has one socket of all colors, you don't go for the socket bonus. If it has more than one blue socket you don't go for the socket bonus.
    Always use Chaotic Skyflare Diamond as your meta. Because of that, the only case which overrides these rules above is the need to maintain the meta gem requirement, you must have at least two Purified Dreadstone in either blue or red sockets. With this in mind... the following corrections I recommend.

    In your helm replace your Runed Cardinal Ruby with a Potent Ametrine. If 5 spellpower is worth using a yellow hybrid cut, 9 spellpower is definately worth it. This nets you a DPS gain.
    In your shoulder replace your Runed Cardinal Ruby with a Potent Ametrine. This nets you a DPS gain.
    Your chest is gemmed correctly.
    Your belt should have only Runed Cardinal Ruby in all three sockets. The socket bonus of 7 on a two socket item is only worth while if at least one of the two sockets was red. Switching all the gems to Runed Cardinal Ruby results in a DPS gain.
    Legs are gemmed correctly, a 4 spirit socket bonus is never worth it you would only consider a socket bonus if it were a primary dps stat like spellpower.
    In your boots you should replace one of the Runed Cardinal Ruby with a Purified Dreadstone (the blue socket obviously). The 7 spellpower socket bonus justifies using it. While this does net a very small DPS loss (1-2 DPS) it is one of the two items you would have Purified Dreadstone in to get your meta gem requirement met.
    Gloves are gemmed correctly.
    Cape should have the Runed Cardinal Ruby replaced by a Potent Ametrine for a small DPS gain.

    Gearing
    Here is where I get to chew you out for doing big mistakes in priorization. You bought both the cape and the idol from the emblem of frost vendor. As a balance druid, you should go for the tier pieces first. Two piece tier 10 is better than four piece tier 9. Four piece tier 10 is better than two piece tier 9. And the items have significantly more spellpower and are better itemized for DPS (no more spirit). The tier pieces should be bought first. The item level 277 tier set is best in slot for balance with one exception (I forget which), you want to have the set, it is very high priority. First off, you spent emblems of frost buying the idol, which is about a 25 DPS increase over the emblem of triumph idol. While it is best in slot, upgrading one of your tier pieces to the 251 tier piece would have brought you way more than a 25 DPS increase. The other piece, the cloak, is very bad because you made the conscience choice to spend your high end badges on a cloak with spirit, the least valued stat. The cloak you actually want will come from Valinthria Dreamwalker on either 25 man (crit/haste) or 10 man (hit/haste) difficulty. Both of those are significantly better than the cloak with spirit on it. Sadly you already bought those pieces and its too late to get your emblems back.
    Here are your priorities going forward. First off, get four pieces of tier 10. Then you can either get the belt or the last piece of tier 10 (in my case I got the last tier piece cause I had a token to upgrade it banked). The belt that is haste crit is the best leather belt you can get at item level 264, unless you jump to the 277 level you can't beat that belt.

    On to trinkets, a very popular topic. Your second trinket with the 111 spellpower and the on use effect. It is a lot weaker than you think. Obviously you can only really benefit from the crit during wrath heavy portion of your dps phases. At the same time however, the benefit isn't quite as significant as one might think. You ready for the sad fact of the matter. Sundial of the Exiled would likely net a higher DPS gain overall. It will average very close in spellpower increase while having an average crit rating increase that is higher. I highly recommend against the Nevermelting Ice Crystal personally and if you have something else like Illustration of the Dragon Soul or Eye of the Broodmother while lower in item level both are significantly stronger items. In general, stay way from on use trinkets, they almost always don't work well for Balance.

    DPS Phases
    You have to properly understand the DPS phases (no eclipse, pre-eclipse, eclipse, and post-eclipse) to execute Balance Druid DPS effectively. You should view some of the information provided over in this other topic on Balance Druids because I cover in there a bit more understanding of the Balance DPS phases, there is also a link to a video I made demonstrating the proper execution of the cycle (sorry no sound).
    http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...with-no-Guides

    To litterally quote myself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Quinafoi View Post
    Some more help for Balance druids...

    Balance druid standard DPS rotation video.

    http://www.filefront.com/15367353/BalanceDPSRotation_3_3.avi/
    Encoded in XVid Codec
    www.xvid.org

    I threw together a quick video illustrating the proper rotation.
    Please note...
    1. That isn't my normal action bar setup, I customized it for the video to illustrate the spells and their order of usage. It was a bit of a pain in the arse to retrain myself to different action positions but I still averaged 6300 DPS from start to finish.
    2. Pay attention to eclipse buff timer, note how I still have the Eclipse buff when I start doing other things like renewing DoTs or using long cooldowns like Starfall but it is in the Post-Eclipse phase (no longer enough time to finish the next cast). Also note no DoT clipping at anypoint, I never cast a DoT unless the prior one has already expired and if both expired I prioritize Moonfire over Insect Swarm.
    3. Anything you might consider a Pre-Eclipse phase DoT renewal is actually a No Eclipse phase DoT renewal because of spell queuing. I am click the instant action Moonfire or Insect Swarm prior to the Eclipse buff procing however the buff may proc before that request actually gets to the server.
    4. Sorry I didn't throw any epic Moonkin music for you to listen to while watching.

    Balance druid DPS consists of four phases...

    No Eclipse
    Pre-Eclipse (experienced players treat this identical to Eclipse)
    Eclipse
    Post-Eclipse (experienced players treat this identical to No Eclipse)

    No Eclipse phase is simply that, no Eclipse buff currently active, like at the start of an encounter. During this phase is when you would apply Faerie Fire, use long cooldowns such as Force of Nature, Starfall, and Innervate, and renew any DoTs that aren't currently active prioritizing Moonfire over Insect Swarm.

    Pre-Eclipse phase is often ignored and treated the same as Eclipse phase. Some players will renew their DoTs at the start of an Eclipse buff to buff the respective spell. However this is generally advised against and you shouldn't intentionally waste part of your Eclipse buff.

    Eclipse phase is your spam phase of your cycle. Litterally you just spam the buffed spell for the duration of the Eclipse buff.

    Post-Eclipse phase is the key difference where experienced balance druids will differentiate themselves from the rest. This is the end of the Eclipse buff where the remaining time on the buff isn't sufficient to cast another spell (i.e. if Eclipse is less than 1 second remaining, you can't cast another 1 second or longer spell and have it still buffed). Because you can't benefit from the buff anymore, experienced players treat this identicle to the No Eclipse phase and would use their long cooldowns Force of Nature, Starfall, and Innervate or renew any DoTs that fell off, again prioritizing Moonfire over Insect Swarm but never clipping their DoTs. This phase is generally just one Global Cooldown long, but by taking advantage of it you generally insure that your cooldowns are used promptly as well as DoTs are renewed before entering the next Eclipse. If you mistakenly cast that one last spell that goes beyond the buff timer, you can immediately enter your next Eclipse without taking advantage of your cooldowns or renewing your DoTs which results in a DPS loss.
    Think that pretty much covers everything.
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

  3. #3
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    This is exactly the kind of help I was looking for. You are amazingly clear and complete. I will work on all of those things when I get home from work tonight.

    My dps still seems low compaired to your calculations. I was doing roughly 5k on the training dummy. But I will read more closely the things at the bottom of the post, and see what happens once I regem and respec.

    Thanks!

    Hügs

  4. #4
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    5K isn't that far off target. While quite a bit off the 6K mark, this can be largely based off of your handling of the dps phases. Renewing DoTs during an eclipse or not taking advantage of the post eclipse phase can explain a difference of up around 20%. Beyond that its latency (obviously less it good, if it takes longer for your button press to reach the server, it takes longer for your spell to actually cast), reaction time (experience makes you react better to the phase transitions), and frequency based (if you cast more spells, you do more damage, any delay is bad).

    More on trinkets that I should probably explain.
    For a Balance Druid you generally want a trinket that has a passive effect of spellpower, crit, or hit. Haste you typically avoid because it is easy to be haste soft capped from gear alone. The secondary effect you would either want to be a proc for spellpower or damage (i.e. Reign of the Dead). You want to avoid anything in general that has a proc or an on use that is either haste or crit because only some of your spells will benefit from either stat depending on the point in the dps phase cycle. Trinkets that stack are very good for Balance, while it does increase ramp up time the maintained benefit will far outweigh most trinkets (though this fact holds true for basically every caster).
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

  5. #5
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    The last time I did Deathbringer Saurfang I pulled 4800 and was handling the blood beast things, how far off the mark is that?

  6. #6
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    Depends on the tactic used. Are you kiting or killing the add before it ever gets to you. Movement hurts Balance DPS substantially more than retargeting. While both hurt DPS. Retargeting will cost you like 10%, movement could cost you like 80%.
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

  7. #7
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    I would moonfire them to get them to come after me, then root away from melee. Then wrath unless lunar eclipse was up, and rooting inbetween most casts.

  8. #8
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    Then you're lucky you did even that high on DPS if you're using roots. Functionally, entangling roots is 0 DPS or a wasted cast if you will.

    I'd recommend against using Moonfire on them. Simply put they should die in 10 seconds (they have 100k health and if you and one other person are on them both doing 5k they die that fast). Moonfire lasts 21 seconds max, so effectively you don't get full benefit out of it anyway (or at least you shouldn't if properly executed). On the Blood Beasts you should only use Wrath, Starfire, Starfall, and if needed Typhoon, nothing else.

    In our ten man we have myself and a hunter kill one add while melee kills the other. In 25 man, we have at least 2 ranged assigned to three of the adds and melee split between the remaining two stun locked down. If you apply enough DPS to the adds, they die before they reach you with minimal snaring required (a single knockback or frost trap for example can slow them enough that you should never have to move one step). If you're rooting the add, that tells me you are also likely running away from it. Not only killing your DPS because of using a worthless ability (entangling roots will almost always break before the first tick and even if you got one tick out of it, the damage is a joke) but also killing it because you are likely running away from it and relying on DoTs to kill it.

    The fact that you are doing 4800 using a method which will gimp your DPS tells me you have probably a lot of synergies buffing your numbers to compensate. A better strategy could probably net you closer to 6500 dps. I am normally the top ranged DPS on this encounter and for ICC it is one of the higher DPS encounters for a Balance Druid. Marrowgar (movement, spike), Deathwhisper (movement, retargeting), Gunship (retargeting), Festergut (movement, daze), Rotface (movement), Putricide (movement, retargeting), Blood Princes (movement, retargeting), Blood Queen (movement), Valinthria (movement, retargeting), Sindragosa (movement, retargeting), and Lich King (movement, retargeting)... basically every encounter but Deathbringer Saurfang is worse for Balance Druid. Granted the same problems persist for just about anyone, the goal is to minimize the effect on the overall DPS number. In the case of Deathbringer Saurfang you resolve this by removing the "optional" movement aspect of the fight by using the kill it before it ever hits you method. On other fights, take Festergut, you have to move a certain amount of the time, but you want to minimize that as much as possible. Maybe you get to be the lucky one who actually stands on the collapse point for ranged. Maximizing your DPS is often about adjusting your methods to minimize the affect of the boss mechanics. In general, my DPS is higher on Deathbringer Saurfang than any other encounter (taking into account super buffs like being bitten by Blood Queen). Obviously I may do better on some other encounter simply because of luck playing a part, in general though Saurfang is the best for me. Being the raid leader myself I quickly threw out the idea of Moonkin kiting strategy in 25 man.
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

  9. #9
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    Ok. Thank you for all your help, I will respec tonight and work on some of the gemming issues. You have been the best source of information for me and I have read a lot on this. I might come back with more questions after I do this. Again thank you so much for your complete information.

    Hügs

  10. #10
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    Upcoming Starfall Changes
    On a different note, I think the Starfall changes may be nerfed before they go live. While it is definately a buff to balance DPS they promise, it is likely severely overpowered for PvP. Resilience can't mitigate enough of the damage.

    If it does go live...
    Starfall replace Insect Swarm as the strongest glyph. That will result in ideal glyph selections changing as well as the rotation used. For example, with me Starfall / Moonfire / Starfire yield and using a Moonfire only cycle yeilds about 15 more theoretical DPS (would be higher for people with two piece tier 9 still) than Starfall / Focus / Insect Swarm and using an Insect Swarm only cycle (not being able to glyph both DoTs removes one of them from the ideal rotation).

    When the patch does go live you need to check for an updated DPS spreadsheet and see what combination of glyphs are now best for you.
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

  11. #11
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    Ok. I regemmed and respecced and replaced some other things. I know I still have work to do but would you mind looking it over again making sure I am on the right track? I am not changed out the bracer enchant till I get new bracers, I am grinding H HOR for some new ones, I even have the enchant in my bags just waiting on the new bracers. I will didn't have time to test anything out on a dummy last night, but I will see what happens in ICC 10 tonight. Is there anything else you can see that I can get fixed before I raid tonight? Again I really appreciate all your help. I am hoping I have time today to study the rotation stuff more.

  12. #12
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    Spec and gems are fine.

    Gained 20 spirit, roughly 9 dps.
    Gained 20 crit, roughly 21 dps.
    Lost 3 spellpower, roughly 4-5 dps.
    Lost 30 stamina, no impact on actual dps.

    Net gain of about 25-26 dps self buffed on a dummy.

    Much of your actual DPS loss is likely dealing with the dps phases and how and when you cast spells, that takes practice.
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

  13. #13
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    Thank you.

    I just have one other question, someone told me to get the minor glyph of typhoon. But I am thinking since that gets rid of the knock back that would be a bad move on the Saurfang encounter correct?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hügs View Post
    Thank you.

    I just have one other question, someone told me to get the minor glyph of typhoon. But I am thinking since that gets rid of the knock back that would be a bad move on the Saurfang encounter correct?
    Glyph of Typhoon is an AoE trash glyph. The reason for picking up is because you use it to have a high chance of procing Nature's Grace and beginning a hurricane channel with the 20% increased casting speed, if you begin a channel at higher speed, that speed affects the max duration even if the buff fades during the channel. I typically advise against it because Typhoon itself is designed to a situationally useful ability. If I really wanted to max out my AoE dps on trash I'd pick it up, but it's not really worth swaping in and out glyphs just for trash. And boss encounter which involves adds, Typhoon is your primary self preservation technique because it is instant, ranged and can be used before the add gets to you, and doesn't interfere with tanking so much if used correctly. For instance if I pull aggro on a Fanatic on Deathwhisper, I use Typhoon to knock it back to the tank and daze it so it is slower to get to me. Using Glyph of Typhoon I could increase my DPS on trash packs by about 8%, using Typhoon to try and force proc Nature's Grace. Unglyphed, Typhoon you only use when you need to. Glyphed, Typhoon you use when you want to.

    If you really want to spend the money on glyphing it for trash and unglyphing it for bosses you're welcome to. I don't think it's worth the money for trash.
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

  15. #15
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    Again thanks for all your help. I did way better in ICC 10 friday night. 5400 dps on saurfang, and 5800 on festergut. I am sure with your help I will keep improving. Thanks again.

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