Help with Hunters!
I was wondering for some general advice. I keep getting slightly over aggroed by a hunter in the guild (he's 1st best geared, I'm 5th). It's not by much, and we tend to constantly switch throughout fights which can be quite frustrating for the raid if a boss (such as Ignis last night) is constantly turning around to face him then me then him then me etc. We had a friendly chat and he DOES redirect threat to me consistently so we were thinking the other option is he holds back but whilst that'll give more control we'll lose his dps.
Interestingly it doesn't seem to happen in ICC10 or 25 that've noticed except on Deathwhisper phase 2 but I've put that down to touch of insignificance.
I was wondering if maybe I shouldn't use judgement of wisdom? I've been using it for ages to help with mana regen but I'm not convinced I need it in ICC due to the mana regained from healing. Should I use light or something else? I've been thinking for a while I don't generate enough threat quick enough for my gear. Nobodies died or mentioned I don't but I just get this feeling I could be better :/
Anyway, here are our armory links in case theres something deeper wrong with me (not enough expertise is another theory of mine?)
Me - http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...st&cn=Ironoath
Hunter - http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...yst&cn=Czarine
He does seem to be survival and have ungodly amounts of crit so that can lead to quite early spikes of DPS, as opposed to marksman who puts out a steadier stream.
If it's just one hunter, have you ever asked him to feign just once in a bossfight 30sec after a pull? Unless I'm missing something here, hunters due to fiegn death are a class which should have no agro problems whatsoever.
Your threat stats seem fine to me.
"Yes." - Captain Obvious
cheers for the quick reply. I try to steer clear of telling other classes how to play as 9/10 I don't have enough top end experience of them myself. I prefer to have a friendly chat and (like this) see if I can adapt first before drilling in to there class. I'll mention feign death to him though
26 expertise is the biggest threshold for pally threat, however before you start gemming expertise I think there are a few steps to take first. I think one thing you should do is drop a point from Spiritual Attunement (only need one point to keep your mana bar full) to pick up 3/3 Crusade. This is another 1% damage (and with it threat), 2% against almost everything in ToC and ICC. This should help with your threat issues somewhat. Also, getting Mongoose on your weapon would help quite a bit with threat - it has a fantastic uptime for Paladin tanks, and gives you large amounts of crit and dodge and a small amount of haste and armor. The crit and haste should help with aggro.
I've never really heard about the healing from JoL generating threat, but it's possible. I have no clue. As for what to judge when, it depends on what the other Paladins in the raid are judging. Light is always the most important in a raid setting, but I usually let holy pallies judge it to help them pad their numbers on Recount.
I know this isn't a "rate my armory" thread, but you are gemming much more dodge than stamina, which is bad (stam and armor stacking is the best strategy for raiding tanks, in my and most peoples' opinions). And what's up with the intellect gem in your bracers? You need to go through your gemming and enchants with a fine-tooth comb, and try to maximize your Effective Health. And level up your Engineering so you can get the +885 armor to gloves, that is a whole TON of mitigation right there.
I'll certainly look at my talent tree
Dodge gems, I'd been advised to gem for dodge for ICC due to debuff. You think I should drop some?
Intellect gem on bracers I think was probably due to me not really knowing what to gem for when I got those and just haven't replaced it. TBH,I didn't even notice that gem when I did see it
And I'll look at engineering now, didn't realise there was a +885 armor thing!
Great advice, thanks!
You don't want to gem dodge for ICC. Avoidance is still nice, don't get me wrong, but it's not reliable so you don't want to stack it in gems or trinkets (you get plenty just from having decent gear). Stack stam and armor for ICC, armor is especially nice nowadays.
wicked, I'll go find some gems
thanks for the help, really appreciated!
Two skills will solve all your problems.
Hunter: http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=5384 >> Resets threat to 0 for the hunter
Paladin (and yes... tanks have that skill, too!): http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=1038 >> Threat reduction for the target
Give him a hand so he can delay the feign a little. Then one feign as he catches up and he won't be able to catch you again until the boss is down. Using hand early is also a good thing because you have it back sooner for another trigger happy DD then...
P.S.: You can have a look at the other hands, too. Paladins can do amazing things in between.
One question do u open up with http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=31884 ? and since armory is not accesible I was wondering if you had the thret enchantment on your gloves?
all really good advice thanks guys
In a typical bossfight I get my judgement and holy shield off and THEN pop avenging wrath. Maybe I should start with this 'as I run in'? Currently I wait for positioning
Nice tip for Hand of Salvation to, I'll set up a macro for him as he's the only guy who overthreats me
I did have the threat enchantment on gloves but I've just this second levelled my engineering so put the +885 armor on it instead as per the advice. If it doesn't work I can always replace it, Armsman isn't expensive afterall
ICC tonight so we'll see how I go, hopefully the scepter will drop and I can mongoose that
Thanks for all the quick help and suggestions
Being a hunter first, and now a tank... if he is the only one pulling aggro, it's on him. Part of being a DPS class is controlling your threat, not just balls to the wall DPS trying to top the meters. If he needs to slow down a bit, or FD, or whatever, have him do it. Salv would be a great idea for something YOU can do, but it sounds like you're not having huge issues with threat overall.
Secondly... Not to criticize, but ... I would kind of wonder why, if he's the top geared in your guild into ICC, he's Surv instead of MM. MM is a proven DPS increase, if he learns how to play it. It's also, as mentioned, a steadier stream, instead of large burst. While this is more directed at BM hunters, the numbers are sound and it still applies to someone at that gear level staying SV... http://www.wow.com/2010/02/11/scatte...aid/#continued
If you could (gently) urge him into trying MM, and see if he sticks with it, that may help with your burst threat issues from his crits.
cheers, hes a really good guy so it's not like he's purposely trying to be all elitist and top charts or anything and, as the above advice has shown, I'm not the perfect tank either! We were just talking last night trying to find ways we can keep his dps and I can maintain control. I think we'll go with the feign death stuff and Salv stuff first before we start with slowing down. I mean I've tweaked my talent tree on advice here so we'll see how we go
Thanks a lot, it's really helpful having other guys critically look at things with handy hints. Our guild progresses quite nicely but you can never have enough help!
I didn't mean to imply he was elitist, just that players end up becoming blinded a lot of the time by the dps charts. I would very strongly recommend you urge him to look into MM spec, at his gear, though. Top geared DPS it is a substantial increase.
Originally Posted by Ironoath
My hunter, http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...za&cn=Wharfrat, does the same think with our tanks; I usually get Vigilance, and it doesn't help. There's really not a lot you can do, you can expertise to your hearts content, but I would bet your hunter is critting about 70%+ of the time; what you need to ask is that he keep Misdirect up as much as possible.
I can assure you, he's not trying to pull aggro, it's the insane crit rates; I would bet his Explosive Shot is critting for about 8 - 12k and his kill shot's critting for about 24K+; just auto-shot will crit for around 6k+ for him (if not a bit more).
You really want to hear stories ask him what it's like to do the daily in a heroic with an "okay" or poorly geared tank - Disengage, Feign Death, Concussive Shot, run in circles, etc; it's really an adventure.
^^nice insight there. As I say, its not a massive problem as he's not miles ahead of me. Hopefully all the tips here will give me the control without losing his dps.
Thanks guys, very very helpful