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Thread: DK Tank - Am I missing anything important?

  1. #1
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    DK Tank - Am I missing anything important?

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Elune&n=Krayth

    Just wondering if there's anything obvious that I'm missing or need to replace. I'm a 2H Frost Tank, doing ICC10 and some pug ICC25, and all previous content.

    Not looking for a list of upgrades, but just anything that seems horribly out of place or any stats I may be low on.
    Last edited by wrayth; 02-25-2010 at 11:19 AM. Reason: Fixed armory link, I'm a moron.

  2. #2
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    Hit rating and expertise are quite low which'll equate to significantly less threat generation.

    Merciless combat and Hungering cold really won't do much for you in raids, I'd consider epidemic instead.

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    When I was frost I NEVER used hungering cold. I know it sounds good in an "Oh Sh#t situation but you will never apply it. Black is right with the epidemic. Much better talent. Your expertise should be atleast 24 if not higher. If you can get to 26 then there is really no need to worry about hitrating.

    I don't want to start a war here....*Cough* Blood *Cough* lol
    Quote Originally Posted by WarTotem View Post
    You know you just called yourself an asshat, right?

  4. #4
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    You look pretty solid. I'd personally be inclined to swap a few things (I've never found hungering cold useful for tanking, and I'd swap the rune strike or howling blast glyph for frost strike) but it's all in the YMMV/personal choice level of nitpicks.

    Go. Poke bosses with sharp sticks, and revel in your purples.

    Eta: Try to replace that helmet though, shield block makes dk's sad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Banterloft View Post
    Your expertise should be atleast 24 if not higher. If you can get to 26 then there is really no need to worry about hitrating.

    I don't want to start a war here....*Cough* Blood *Cough* lol
    I was going to say here that more hit/expertise would be nice for him, but it's not going to cripple him, and short of getting different gear the only way he can get more is to regem/enchant for hit/expertise which I really, really wouldn't recommend. However, looking at the armory page again, I'd actually say the easiest way to do it would be to replace your weapon (yeah, I know, replacing Quel'serrar after using the hilt probably isn't what you want to do), but OEB, and Thunderstrike from Ony, and Ramaladni's from Saurfang all have good stam and a crapton of expertise which would fill most of that whole.

    Also, down with blood tanks /end kneejerk reaction. (more seriously, what few problems exist would still be there in a blood spec)

  6. #6
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    Working on the helm. I've yet to see the Ony one, sadly, and am hesitant to throw Triumph badges on either of the ones there. Hoping for something out of ICC, or maybe a Frost badge one, soon.

    See I find Hungering Cold to be great for any AoE situations. It's an extra instant threat to a large group. I'm not saying I'm set on keeping it, but where would the point be better spent? I can't put it in Epidemic and still get Howling Blast.

    Same goes for Merciless Combat. Not much other choices in the Frost tree there.

    For the glyphs, I'd rather keep the Howling Blast. For AoE groups I find having HB apply the disease to be great.

    Is the Frost Strike rune going to be that much better than the Rune Strike one? I don't find myself to be very RP starved, but taht's just anecdotal observation... I have never looked at or recorded any logs.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fathom View Post
    I was going to say here that more hit/expertise would be nice for him, but it's not going to cripple him, and short of getting different gear the only way he can get more is to regem/enchant for hit/expertise which I really, really wouldn't recommend. However, looking at the armory page again, I'd actually say the easiest way to do it would be to replace your weapon (yeah, I know, replacing Quel'serrar after using the hilt probably isn't what you want to do), but OEB, and Thunderstrike from Ony, and Ramaladni's from Saurfang all have good stam and a crapton of expertise which would fill most of that whole.

    Also, down with blood tanks /end kneejerk reaction. (more seriously, what few problems exist would still be there in a blood spec)
    I'm not tied to my Quel'Delar. I got it as a carrot to encourage my DK's leveling. I have the 245 Axe from ToC, but it's a drop according to Rawr. Weapon wise, I haven't gotten anything to drop yet, let alone had a chance to lose the roll. Should I consider dual wield, with the changes coming? Or is 2H better? (Probably a bit of an opinionated question, but any links to details would be appreciated!)

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrayth View Post
    See I find Hungering Cold to be great for any AoE situations. It's an extra instant threat to a large group. I'm not saying I'm set on keeping it, but where would the point be better spent? I can't put it in Epidemic and still get Howling Blast.

    Same goes for Merciless Combat. Not much other choices in the Frost tree there.

    For the glyphs, I'd rather keep the Howling Blast. For AoE groups I find having HB apply the disease to be great.

    Is the Frost Strike rune going to be that much better than the Rune Strike one? I don't find myself to be very RP starved, but taht's just anecdotal observation... I have never looked at or recorded any logs.
    I don't believe Hungering Cold has a threat component (as far as I know), in practice it's mostly a way of spreading frost fever to a group, as generally there's enough random aoe that the cc component breaks almost instantly. Generally it's not taken as DW frost tanks, and 2h IIT frost tanks both have other places they need to put points that get them down the tree to HB. You're in a subset of frost tanks that actually run into the problem of getting enough points in the tree to get the mandatory stuff, so those talents are just some of the filler you're going to have.

    Frost Strike glyph is simple more single target threat. It's less about whether you're RP starved and more about fitting in a bit more threat/rp. It fills the same function as the RS glyph, and as I said, it's a personal choice kind of thing, if you're happy with your current glyphs, don't stress about it.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fathom View Post
    I don't believe Hungering Cold has a threat component (as far as I know), in practice it's mostly a way of spreading frost fever to a group, as generally there's enough random aoe that the cc component breaks almost instantly. Generally it's not taken as DW frost tanks, and 2h IIT frost tanks both have other places they need to put points that get them down the tree to HB. You're in a subset of frost tanks that actually run into the problem of getting enough points in the tree to get the mandatory stuff, so those talents are just some of the filler you're going to have.

    Frost Strike glyph is simple more single target threat. It's less about whether you're RP starved and more about fitting in a bit more threat/rp. It fills the same function as the RS glyph, and as I said, it's a personal choice kind of thing, if you're happy with your current glyphs, don't stress about it.
    I meant threat in the sense that it spreads Frost Fever, but I guess I get that out of my Howling Blast anyway. Like I said, not a necessity. And as for RS/FS glyph, both are single target, I guess it may be worth a try to play around with the FS one. The issue I have is that generally I outgear my DPS, so I haven't run into many situations ever where my threat has been an issue. That's not to say there isn't room for improvement... and the guildies I run my pugs with have each gotten an upgrade on every ICC10 and 25 we've done, where I've yet to see a single tank piece drop, so the gearing will change quickly if this keeps up lol.

    I wonder... should I consider specing for IIT? I would need to free up three additional points somewhere (dropping Merciless Combat and Hungering Cold). What would you recommend dropping?

    Maybe something like
    http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc...00000000000000
    Last edited by wrayth; 02-25-2010 at 01:27 PM. Reason: Spec Link was wrong.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrayth View Post
    Working on the helm. I've yet to see the Ony one, sadly, and am hesitant to throw Triumph badges on either of the ones there. Hoping for something out of ICC, or maybe a Frost badge one, soon.
    The non-set helm from Triumph Emblems is going to be one of the best helms you can get as a right now upgrade.
    The Frost helm can wait, and unless you get lucky with a drop, you aren't going to get a better helm, plus all the expertise on the helm will help.
    Considering that you are a Tank, there is no reason to be 'cheap' with the triumph emblems, since you have roughly a 30s wait time to get into a random.

    Those points in Hungering Cold, Merciliess combat and other "strange/inefficient" talents might be better served by getting Improved Icy Talons. Also Scent of Blood is more of a DW tank talent than a 2H Frost tank talent.

    Regarding 2H vs DW Frost Tanking.
    2H is considered the weaker of the two, but DW is a very very tight build, not much room to "customize" the spec, at most one might be able to shave 3 points to use for other stuff, but at the cost of RP generation. But 2H is the more versatile of the two, since you can have Improved Icy Talons without sacrificing anything.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    The non-set helm from Triumph Emblems is going to be one of the best helms you can get as a right now upgrade.
    The Frost helm can wait, and unless you get lucky with a drop, you aren't going to get a better helm, plus all the expertise on the helm will help.
    Considering that you are a Tank, there is no reason to be 'cheap' with the triumph emblems, since you have roughly a 30s wait time to get into a random.

    Those points in Hungering Cold, Merciliess combat and other "strange/inefficient" talents might be better served by getting Improved Icy Talons. Also Scent of Blood is more of a DW tank talent than a 2H Frost tank talent.

    Regarding 2H vs DW Frost Tanking.
    2H is considered the weaker of the two, but DW is a very very tight build, not much room to "customize" the spec, at most one might be able to shave 3 points to use for other stuff, but at the cost of RP generation. But 2H is the more versatile of the two, since you can have Improved Icy Talons without sacrificing anything.
    I'll keep that in mind as I get better weapons.

    Would the Ony helm not be better than the emblem one? I was holding off for that. I'm not pushing the cutting edge content, and have not hit a point where any of my gear has been holding me or my group back, so I haven't bothered with that emblem helm. But if it's better than the Ony one, I'll get it in a heartbeat.

    I've already mentioned trying to get IIT, but I need to figure out what to drop.

    Should I drop Scent of Blood, or maybe 3 points out of Bladed Armor? Why do you say Scent of Blood is a DW talent?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selene View Post
    Those points in Hungering Cold, Merciliess combat and other "strange/inefficient" talents might be better served by getting Improved Icy Talons.
    IT is the closest thing we have to a AP debuff. In later content, cuppled with a war/druid, the Your atk spd debuff along with demo shout mitigates quite a bit of dmg. Your howling blast does spread your FF and if all else you can pest. If you take a gander at my frost spec, this is what I use in roics to chain pull the mobs for AOE dps. Its not the cookie cutter, but it has served me well in 3.3.

    My toon is Daedalous - Ravencrest

    (Also, about my blood comment earlier, I was just trying to get a raise out of ya Fathom I could hear the mighty hammer of Kaz whirling thru the air... )
    Quote Originally Posted by WarTotem View Post
    You know you just called yourself an asshat, right?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrayth View Post
    Should I drop Scent of Blood, or maybe 3 points out of Bladed Armor? Why do you say Scent of Blood is a DW talent?
    If you're going to drop one, definitely make it Scent of Blood. Bladed Armor is an excellent talent that scales, whereas Scent of Blood is only a decent one (and you're already getting decent RP gen from Chill of the Grave).

    Quote Originally Posted by Banterloft View Post
    (Also, about my blood comment earlier, I was just trying to get a raise out of ya Fathom I could hear the mighty hammer of Kaz whirling thru the air... )
    Well, I didn't want to disappoint

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fathom View Post
    If you're going to drop one, definitely make it Scent of Blood. Bladed Armor is an excellent talent that scales, whereas Scent of Blood is only a decent one (and you're already getting decent RP gen from Chill of the Grave).



    Well, I didn't want to disappoint
    In think I'll go that route, then, and I'll respec tonight.

    I also want to try out some Blood spec tanking... but I'm a little clueless as to where to start. I'll probably get rid of my DPS offspec for now, since I very rarely use it, to test out some Blood.

    Thanks for the help/advice guys!

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    Quote Originally Posted by wrayth View Post
    I'll keep that in mind as I get better weapons.

    Would the Ony helm not be better than the emblem one? I was holding off for that. I'm not pushing the cutting edge content, and have not hit a point where any of my gear has been holding me or my group back, so I haven't bothered with that emblem helm. But if it's better than the Ony one, I'll get it in a heartbeat.

    I've already mentioned trying to get IIT, but I need to figure out what to drop.

    Should I drop Scent of Blood, or maybe 3 points out of Bladed Armor? Why do you say Scent of Blood is a DW talent?
    The Onyxia Helm has Hit Rating, while the Triumph Helm has Expertise. For me at least Expertise has been harder to acquire than Hit Rating via gear.
    Plus the Triumph helm is something you can get NOW, instead of trying to get lucky once a week in Onyxia.

    As to why Scent of Blood is more of a DW talent, Scent of blood generates RP from strikes after a dodge/parry/direct hit occurs, DW by the virtue of having two weapons will have more strikes and more often (depending on weapons of course) vs a 2H with its much slower weapon speed and only one strike.
    Chill of the Grave is better for RP generation for 2H while Scent of Blood is better for DW.

  16. #16
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    I've respec'd to IIT now. I also bought the Triumph helm and gemmed it up.

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