Guile of the Gorfiend...Worth it?

[Rizilliant]

Since i have a low crit chance anyway, is "Guile of the Gorefiend" worth it whatsoever? I also dont use "Killing Machine", and if i did take it, should i go all 5pts?

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...man&cn=Plaegue

Im grabbing the frost cloak this evening, and i know i need a belt...I'm gearing this one up for our 2nd ICC group , as i already have the Prot/Holy Pally, & Balance/Resto Druid....I do run into threat issues and am thinking its gotta be my weapons, which is why i keep "Bladed Armor"..Any advice for the DW tanking would be greatly appreciated! Yes i have read the DK forumns and some very helpful DK guides here, but a direct solution for my character in particular would helpme immensly....TY in advance :-)

I also have 2 other DW sets of weapon:
-Dual "Peacekeepers" both w/spellbreaking +20hit
-"Lucky Old Sun" & "Falrich's Wrist Chopper" Both w/ Swordbreaking

[Miste]

Guile of the Gorfiend is a mandatory talent for all frost specs. The benefit to tanking is not the crit bonus(which is still nice for threat). It's the extra 6 seconds on IBF.

Your spec is a little funky. The DW tank spec is extremely tight on talents. As such, you usually don't have the points to grab melee haste and the appropriate tanking talents. Please check out the DK Compendium of Tanking in the theorycrafting forum for the appropriate DW frost tank spec.

You should always use the def/%health runechant on all weapons (1H or 2H). That will give you ~3% avoidance before DR and 2% more health. For weapons, you need to use slow/slow DPS weapons. You don't have the gear to generate enough threat with fast weapons. Any competent DPS will be holding back or pulling aggro.

You need more expertise. You need to be closer to 26. You don't need the hit or defense. Switch those gems to expertise/stam or pure stam. You have to many suboptimal gems. Get rid of everything that is not expertise/stam or pure stam. Put a green def/stam in your helm. Put exp/stam in slots until your expertise is in the 20s. Use pure stam for everything else.

Get rid of Ick's Rotting Thumb as soon as you can get a stam trinket. Replace the belt with the T8 badge belt. Replace the cloak with a badge cloak (either T7 or T10).

[Rizilliant]

Yea i just got icks this morning and was playing around with my total avoidance..I do still have Black heart, and my cloak is being replaced this evening...As far as the gem advice, tyvm...I'll switch all this around as soon as possible...The blood spec i use for soling is so much easier to play with :P lol...(Its just for playing)

So if im understanding correctly, i just wanna stack as much Stam as possible to lessen the hits ido take? Paladin Tank is much diff (obviously) and im used to stacking as much avoidance as possible to keep over the 102.4% and less with stamina...Having a helluva time with thisone, I had been blood since WotLK release, and abandoned the DK shortly after the 3rd "nerf", as i was sick of dealing with the constant changing...Other than blood, this is nothing like what i remember...I just picked the DK back up about 2weeks ago...

[Miste]

Armor stacking will decrease the individual melee hits. It is strongly encouraged to stack armor for ICC.

Stamina stacking will reduce the perceived impact of each hit and give your healers more time to react. If you have 45K HP and take a 25K hit, you're left in a danger zone where another hit will kill you. If you have 55K HP and take that same 25K hit, you can take a second 25K hit and still survive.

[Selene]

Okay we will cover your gems first.

NEVER use Orange gems.
Yellow Socket: Defense (only to the cap if you need it) otherwise Def/Stam or Hit/Stam.
Red Socket: Expertise (only if you need it BAD) otherwise Dodge/Stam or Expertise/Stam.
Blue Socket: Stamina always.
Most helms are a +12 stam socket bonus so pretty much socket for the bonus, since you can get 10 Def/Hit/Expertise/Dodge for the cost of only 3 Stamina.
If the bonus is +9 stam for 1 non-blue socket, it can be worth it to socket for the bonus. If it is a +6 stam bonus for 1 non-blue socket, most people will just socket Stam, this also applies to to a +12 for 2 non-blue sockets.

While the 4-piece bonus is "nice" you would benefit more from getting the non-set helm, which has a ton of Expertise on it. The loss of Hit Rating can be somewhat lessened by using a Hit/Stam gem in the non-set Triumph Emblem helm.

Change your shoulder gem to Expertise/Stam or Dodge/Stam. Expertise/Stam if you are below 26 Expertise, otherwise Dodge/Stam.

Chest, getting http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47591 would be a nice upgrade if you can afford it.

Bracers: Resocket with Stam or Hit/Stam or Def/Stam, depending on how your stats look, most Tanks use a Stam gem in this.

Gauntlets: Resocket with Expertise/Stam and Stam, or all Stam.

Belt: Resocket with Stam. Might want to replace it with the Conquest Emblem belt.

Legs are okay might want to change the Dodge/Stam to Expertise/Stam.

Boots: get rid of those, farm the boots from H FoS or get the crafted Ulduar ones if you can afford them. I would say the crafted ICC boots if you can afford them but not sure you can afford the lack of Defense on those. Enchant with Tuskarr's Vitality (Stam/Run Speed) not Stam.

Get rid of the Thumb (its okay for heroics or certain fights) get a Stamina trinket instead.

For Frost Emblems, i would suggest getting the cloak first.


Now for Spec and Glyphs.
I suggestion the following Glyphs:
Oblit (core for ANY Frost DK regardless of DPS or Tank).
Icy Touch or Howling Blast.
Frost Strike or Rune Strike.

As far as a DW Tank spec with Improved Icy Talons going http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0EbZhxexA0Izc0fuzAo0o might be viable if you are willing to sacrifice a bit of avoidance to do so. Otherwise I suggest http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0EhZhxe0A0I0c0fuzAo0x as the core for any DW Tank spec.
If you really really want to be an Improved Icy Talons tank, 2H Frost Tank would be a better spec for it, which would be http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#j0EMZhxxxAbIzc0buzAo0x

I personally advocate having a Hit Rating for Tanks, especially for DW Frost.
But others say Hit Rating means nothing for any tank. I personally would try to keep above 175 Hit Rating with 200 being the preferred minimum.
But you must try to be at 26 Expertise or as close as you can get to it. Only gem for expertise if you are below that. More than 26 is always nice, but only if it is from gear.

As to Killing Machine, even if you don't watch for the proc, you will be using it regardless of rotation, just it will be random on what attacks gets the proc.
Since you should be constantly using IT or HB to keep at least Frost Fever up depending on your glyphs.
I use Frost Strike as my RP dump since I can always Frost Strike regardless of what boss I'm fighting compared to Rune Strike never being used against some bosses. I do use Rune Strike whenever it is up.

You might want to try to acquire some Slow DPS weapons to use for when you need more threat generation or for bosses that need to be burned down fast.

[Rizilliant]

Wow...Thats more help than i ever expected to get...Thank you VERY much for the time you put into the responce...It is greatly appreciated...
I did decide to drop Icy Talons altogether seeing as we normally have an Enhance Shaman grouped anyway its all waisted talents..the belt and cloak are done...The hit rating, it seems im at 10.59% including "Nerves of Cold Steel"...Expertise...Well, u saw..Ouch...Seems to be a global agreement on DW Frost tank spec having ZERO room to play with.I never feel satisfied after respeccing..Always have that feeling of wishing for 3-5 more pts :P...I did end up grabbing the 2 DPS weapons: "Nighttime" from HFOS, and "Black Icicle" from HHOR...Both use Nerubian Carapice...
Using dps weapons to tank, should i use Str or Agil weapons? Also, is there EVER a time when id use, or want to use my weapons (Tank,or DPS) Runes with Spellbreaking, or Swordbreaking?
Thanx again for all the help...Love "Tankspot"

[Selene]

Wow...Thats more help than i ever expected to get...Thank you VERY much for the time you put into the responce...It is greatly appreciated...
I did decide to drop Icy Talons altogether seeing as we normally have an Enhance Shaman grouped anyway its all waisted talents..the belt and cloak are done...The hit rating, it seems im at 10.59% including "Nerves of Cold Steel"...Expertise...Well, u saw..Ouch...Seems to be a global agreement on DW Frost tank spec having ZERO room to play with.I never feel satisfied after respeccing..Always have that feeling of wishing for 3-5 more pts :P...I did end up grabbing the 2 DPS weapons: "Nighttime" from HFOS, and "Black Icicle" from HHOR...Both use Nerubian Carapice...
Using dps weapons to tank, should i use Str or Agil weapons? Also, is there EVER a time when id use, or want to use my weapons (Tank,or DPS) Runes with Spellbreaking, or Swordbreaking?
Thanx again for all the help...Love "Tankspot"

Use Nerubian Carapace: 26 Defense (that's 3% Avoidance) and 2% Stamina, beats any other rune.
Off-hand I can't think of any 1H DPS weapon that has Str on it. Sides the Agi on the DPS weapons gives us some Armor and Dodge.

Tank Weapons = more tanking stats which means you can "take" hits better.
Slow DPS Weapons = more threat because of more damage and hitting things harder.

I have http://www.wowhead.com/?item=49495 which is probably one of the best tanking weapons for a DW Frost Tank. Its slower than other Tank Weapons so generates threat better and the proc usually is up constantly.
Then for my OH I use any 1 of those 3 weapons that I suggested to you.

Gratz on the cloak, but a Def/Stam, Hit/Stam or a Stam gem would be better. You don't want to use Orange color gems.

Save up those Triumph Emblems to get the 245 helm http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47677 from Triumph Emblems, you will love the Expertise.
You might want to get the non-set Frost emblem chest http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50968 next, unless you can score http://www.wowhead.com/?item=46962 from a ToC-25 or the t10 legs from VoA-10 http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50854 or VoA-25 http://www.wowhead.com/?item=51131. Since they all are loaded with Expertise.

[Rizilliant]

Ty so very much for the help...i recently droped the Axe from hfos and grabbed the 1handed Quel'Delar topair with my black Icicle..Ill begin working on them items you suggested in coming days..We seem to be in Icc10 3/5 days during the workweek, and weekends is nonstop gearing guildees...so i get little time on my DK... :-(