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Thread: Before you think about kicking that DPS doing less than 1k...

  1. #1
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    Before you think about kicking that DPS doing less than 1k...

    Seriously. Ask them to post their meter. I'm not sure what it is but there seems to be large discrepancies between player recounts. Generally they they seem to involve differences between melee and a ranged player, commonly hunters.

    The discrepancies found can be huge. The tank voted to kick a hunter last night in the group doing 800 DPS on his meter and my own even. But according to the hunter and the healer's recount he was doing about 3.4k. The tank was a bit embarrassed and apologized. A lot of groups vote before a reply can be offered. A friend who plays a hunter notices this frequently, and almost feels defensively he should post the meter in that manner we find irritating.

    I've noticed glaring differences in between melee as well, but never to the extent it is with hunters. Unfortunately I forgot to take the opportunity to see if it was only their pets damage being recorded or something.

    EDIT: To clarify I've only see this happen with cross realm players.
    Last edited by BruisedOoze; 01-13-2010 at 11:01 AM. Reason: Clarification
    "Just because it's not nice doesn't mean it's not miraculous." - T. P.

  2. #2
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    This is a known issue that I'm aware of. It happens most frequently to pet-based specs, because for some reason damage meters don't seem to record pet damage in cross-server pugs well.

    I've actually changed form Recount to Skada, and that seems to help..I'm getting what I beleive to be more accurate numbers. Even still in situations like those you outline I typically ask at least one other player what their meter says, and more importantly I watch what the "fail dps" is doing. If I see a hunter doing nothing but autoshot for 10 minutes, he's getting kicked.

  3. #3
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    Meters are kind of all over the lot, my meter, for example, runs about 500-800 dps lower then others normally. Also, in Recount you need to set it to combine pet with master.

    Also, watch out with autoshot, once a hunter is geared auto shot can hit consistently for 3k and crit for up to 7k. I'm pretty convinced that I could run on Wharfrat and just autoshot and the dps would be fine. In fact in Recount, the top three Survival hunter damages in a raid setting are normally Explosive Shot, Auto Shot and Steady Shot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theotherone View Post
    Meters are kind of all over the lot, my meter, for example, runs about 500-800 dps lower then others normally. Also, in Recount you need to set it to combine pet with master.
    I have it set that way.

    During an early 3.3 pug I (tank) and all 4 other members of my pug compared recount results when we realized things were off. we all had pets included with the player in recount. Among us, non-pet classes showed the same or VERY similar (within 100 dps) results across all meters. Pet classes were off by as much as 1k. I notice that each player saw a higher meter result for themselves than anyone else saw. I've noticed Skada does tend to be a little more accurate.

    Also, watch out with autoshot, once a hunter is geared auto shot can hit consistently for 3k and crit for up to 7k. I'm pretty convinced that I could run on Wharfrat and just autoshot and the dps would be fine. In fact in Recount, the top three Survival hunter damages in a raid setting are normally Explosive Shot, Auto Shot and Steady Shot.
    Poor example. However, as a hunter you have to agree that a hunter using just autoshot (or any class using nothing but autoattack for that matter) is certainly not performing up to any decent standard.

    I'm more likely to keep someone that's doing low dps and playing their heart out following their rotation and all, than someone that's doing more dps with just an autoattack on the merit of their gear alone. One's playing with the team; the other is essentially being carried along for free badges but not putting any real effort into playing.

    I care about attitude more than results.
    Last edited by Eisen; 01-13-2010 at 02:56 PM.

  5. #5
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    You can judge it by how fast shit dies too. If the dps is low on your meter AND it takes 40 minutes to clear UP, you have a DPS problem. If stuff is dying fast and you can move quickly, no need to look at meters at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eisen View Post
    changed form Recount to Skada
    ^ This

    Skada Damage Meter - Addons - Curse

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    Most of the issues I've noticed have to do with people using outdated versions of Recount. It has been updated a handful of times since the release of 3.3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lulia View Post
    Most of the issues I've noticed have to do with people using outdated versions of Recount. It has been updated a handful of times since the release of 3.3
    Playing my lock mine was always 300 - 600 lower than what others would show and best I could figure it had to do with my pet not being logged, even though it was clicked.

    I know auto shot and auto attack make up a decent majority of hunter/rogue dps, but if they often join the fights mid stream and are doing overall less damage than me on my warrior I know they could care less and are probably watching TV and just going in with auto attack hoping no one notices. Especially if I see the same thing on bosses where you have time to apply your debuffs or whatever you need to.


    In some classes defense they do have a bit of ramp up time, like my lock, so nearly all trash in the original heroics just turns into seed of corruption spam. If I were trying to apply my full rotation I might be lucky to break 2k by the time the other dps killed the mob.

    Anymore if I am healing I just stop healing them. When they ask for a heal I just link the meter and reply with "dps?" If they don't want to put an effort in to make it go by faster for everyone, they can get stiffed with the repair bill.

  9. #9
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    My lock's dps goes anywhere from 1.2k to 8k on trash. Trash should almost never count because of how fast it goes down. If you see someone standing there, sure. Otherwise, don't count trash DPS against people.

  10. #10
    I never look at meters unless there is a problem. I can care less if someone is pulling 500 DPS or 5k DPS if we are clearing mobs and progressing through the instance. Maybe lower dps from a party member means it takes a little longer to clear an instance but if things are dying and we are not wiping I don't care what the dps looks like.

  11. #11
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    Yeah I brought this up because I've been seeing some knee jerk reactions to the meters, and have seen posts complaining about some low numbers. It just seemed to me that some people aren't aware of the issue.

    Didn't want this to get into what's appropriate damage, just that if someone is making some sort of judgement on these numbers they should be aware of at least technical issues.

    In some classes defense they do have a bit of ramp up time, like my lock, so nearly all trash in the original heroics just turns into seed of corruption spam. If I were trying to apply my full rotation I might be lucky to break 2k by the time the other dps killed the mob.
    When I'm grouped with DPS monsters I find myself missing finishers or big moves just because of things dropping half a cool down early, or building energy to use that finisher. And then you compensate by switching to the next target just before the mob dies and find out everyone did that so the mob stands around a bit longer. Minor things I find amusing.
    "Just because it's not nice doesn't mean it's not miraculous." - T. P.

  12. #12
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    I've found that the amount of dps in the run doesn't make a huge difference in how fast the run goes. I did an H CoS run the other day with 2 of my dpsers standing idle for all the trash pulls. The 3rd dpser was only doing about 1800 dps. We still got the timed event down with like 6 minutes to spare. In a run with good dps, I can make that go maybe a couple of minutes faster, but the difference is really negligible.

    I'd much prefer tanking for low dps people than for people who don't know how to control their threat (7k dps hunters who don't MD or FD, I'm looking at you). As long as stuff is dying, I really don't care about that 2 minute difference.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lulia View Post
    My lock's dps goes anywhere from 1.2k to 8k on trash. Trash should almost never count because of how fast it goes down. If you see someone standing there, sure. Otherwise, don't count trash DPS against people.
    Certainly true. I have an Aff lock myself so I know all about how much trash sucks.

    Lemme give an example of a vote kick I did. Got into a HoS group (regular) with my 78 resto shammy today. The other players were all 78-79: a Blood DK tank, Frost DK DPS, Shadow Priest, and Enchancement Shaman.

    Right off teh bad the shammie looked odd. He had dual daggers; which while not bad isn't something I see a lot on shammies. After the first few pulls everyone else including the tank was 1.2-1.8k. He was doing 600 on my meter. I quietly checked with the shadowpriest that was from his server, and their numbers pretty much matched mine.

    I looked at his breakdown on Skada and it was 97% white damage, 1.5% lightning bolt, 1.5% chain lightning. In watching him fight I notice that Skada didn't midd anyhting...he never used a shock, no lava lash, no spirit wolves, nothng.

    I held my tongue until the Brann event, although I know it was grating the shadow priest as well. We made it through the event, but he pretty much stood still through the entire fight and did nothing. At the very end of it a laser hit him and he stood there through it, not budging an inch. I let him die.

    As soon as we were out of combat I voted to kick. And as far as I'm concerned was fully justified. All we did was carry him through 3.4ths of an instance. Shoulda kicked him far sooner.

    Reev: You're right in that one fail dps doesn't necessarily impact a group too much. But it's the principal. People that jsut go on autofollow, do nothng, and expect free badges and loot for it annoy me.

  14. #14
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    If I can chain pull a roic in less than 20 minutes then I'm fine. I really don't care about the meter. I see the point of these cross-realm roics so people can get geared. If we are kicking that 80 hunter in blues and a couple of epics then how is he going to get the tier peices that he needs? Its nearly imposible to find a tank unless you are guilded/friend with one that will push thru chain roics with you. They have sat in the cue for 20 to 30, they got a group, and then got kicked on the 1rst boss. Lets face it guys, not to refer to the "Has tanking made you mean" thread, but once we are sitting in ICC gear we can help a little buddy out. Trench in and tank. Let him have his 7 embs.
    Quote Originally Posted by WarTotem View Post
    You know you just called yourself an asshat, right?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banterloft View Post
    If I can chain pull a roic in less than 20 minutes then I'm fine. I really don't care about the meter. I see the point of these cross-realm roics so people can get geared. If we are kicking that 80 hunter in blues and a couple of epics then how is he going to get the tier peices that he needs? Its nearly imposible to find a tank unless you are guilded/friend with one that will push thru chain roics with you. They have sat in the cue for 20 to 30, they got a group, and then got kicked on the 1rst boss. Lets face it guys, not to refer to the "Has tanking made you mean" thread, but once we are sitting in ICC gear we can help a little buddy out. Trench in and tank. Let him have his 7 embs.
    Like I said in the earlier posts, I don't care about gear and for the most part not really about the meters either. it's about attitude. If you put no effort into playing and I'm dragging you around getting you free emblems while you do nothing, how is that fair?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eisen View Post
    Like I said in the earlier posts, I don't care about gear and for the most part not really about the meters either. it's about attitude. If you put no effort into playing and I'm dragging you around getting you free emblems while you do nothing, how is that fair?
    I didn't say dragging anyone around for emb however, I would rather tank for the guy that just hit 80 and is burning thru his mana, doing the best he can but pulling 1k dps in a roic than take someone with a 5500 gs that is autoshoting while watching family guy and smoking but pulling 3k dps. Its just not fair, its not how the system shhould work, and I am making a stand. lol. Yes we all want our two frost and out a quick as possible but don't lie to yourself. No one came to this game leet. Everyone here had someone help them at some point and it made them a better player for it. Its time to pay it forward.

    I believe that I have pulled us off topic from the OP. Kaz has his hammer in the air I know...
    Quote Originally Posted by WarTotem View Post
    You know you just called yourself an asshat, right?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banterloft View Post
    I didn't say dragging anyone around for emb however, I would rather tank for the guy that just hit 80 and is burning thru his mana, doing the best he can but pulling 1k dps in a roic than take someone with a 5500 gs that is autoshoting while watching family guy and smoking but pulling 3k dps. Its just not fair, its not how the system shhould work, and I am making a stand. lol. Yes we all want our two frost and out a quick as possible but don't lie to yourself. No one came to this game leet. Everyone here had someone help them at some point and it made them a better player for it. Its time to pay it forward.

    I believe that I have pulled us off topic from the OP. Kaz has his hammer in the air I know...
    No, I agree completely.

    In fact, I LOVE when I get new 80s. You know why? They tell you they're new, they apologize for not having "good enough" gear, they listen when you explain anything..and they're usually better players than the ijits with more GS than braincells who are just in it for the frosts. I agree we were all new once, and anyone that's a little undergeared for a heroic (as long as they're not in all level 70 greens or something stupid like that) can ride with me any time. Just play the game, that's all I ask.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eisen View Post
    No, I agree completely.

    In fact, I LOVE when I get new 80s. You know why? They tell you they're new, they apologize for not having "good enough" gear, they listen when you explain anything..and they're usually better players than the ijits with more GS than braincells who are just in it for the frosts. I agree we were all new once, and anyone that's a little undergeared for a heroic (as long as they're not in all level 70 greens or something stupid like that) can ride with me any time. Just play the game, that's all I ask.
    Not all fresh 80s are this nice though. For everyone one cool fresh 80, I can cound 3 assholes. "Hey," I may suggest to a new warlock. "Just a heads up, rain of fire is more effective than hellfire . Plus it'll make things easier on the healer." I'll get a reply of "... don t ell mne hwo 2 play m y clas."

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by almightypancake View Post
    Not all fresh 80s are this nice though. For everyone one cool fresh 80, I can cound 3 assholes. "Hey," I may suggest to a new warlock. "Just a heads up, rain of fire is more effective than hellfire . Plus it'll make things easier on the healer." I'll get a reply of "... don t ell mne hwo 2 play m y clas."
    I use hellfire when the healer complains of being bored.

  20. #20
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    I've seen Skada report some garbage too, in-game meters are an estimate at best.

    I rarely even bother to notice what the meter says unless something dies extremely fast or is taking way too long to burn down.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalken View Post
    "I'll let the dragon hit me in the face, you stab it in the ass."

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