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Thread: Tanking Weapon Enchant

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    Either way though, none of the enchants are game breaking, and if that's the difference between you killing a boss and not, then something is wrong.
    All this debate aside, the above is the real moral of the story here.
    There is something so appealing about backhanding someone across the face with a shield.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoar View Post
    Ya, ya, I figured that parry was first as parrying is better than dodging (great logic there Blizz), I hadn't checked the table in a while. The entire argument still stands though, just ignore the dodge talk...it never happened. Anyway. Bladeward still sucks, I would argue that Mongoose is damn useless as well. You can't rely on a proc to be there when the RNG screws you on the attack table. Most any added avoidance on gear is pretty worthless over the base amount. Healers won't notice a 5-10% increase in a avoidance when you're avoiding 40% already in ICC. Blood draining might do you some good but I'd stick with the dps enchants until they put in an enchant that adds noticeable survivability.
    How the table works, is lets say (for 100%, I won't get into decimals for simplicity)
    Dodge = 25%
    Parry = 20%
    Block = 15%
    Miss = 10% or something, obviously all these depend on your relative avoidance values, this is just an example

    Dodge then takes up 1-25 on the table, parry takes 26-45, block takes 46-60, miss takes 61-70, getting flat out hit takes up 71-100.

    /rolll 100
    25
    dodge

    /roll 100
    40
    parry

    /roll 100
    50
    block

    /roll 100
    90
    hit

    etc. etc., the only way to get knocked off the table is to have more than 100%

    (This is more for all those people wondering wtf we were talking about) If you were to do a priority like (check dodge, then check parry, then check block, stopping whenever you hit a check) then each attack would require tons of calculations causing blizzards servers to crap themselves. Instead, they just do 1 calculation with a table and avoid all the annoying statistics crap involved.

    As for not using blood draining because it's not game breaking, that's like saying you might as well gem socket bonuses for dps since 10 stam isn't going to matter for survivability in the grand scheme of things. Blood draining has saved my life as verifiable by WoL reports. Why you would choose a dps increase for a survivability increase, no matter how minor, baffles me. A tank's #1 job is to survive, let the dps do the dps. Gear/gem/enchant for survivability, no matter how marginal.

    Edit: Also what MellvarTank said.
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

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  3. #23
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    Does anyone have any WoL for Blood Draining in ICC? I'd like to see how much healing it is doing throughout an entire night\encounter.

  4. #24
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    I would be curious to see those logs Agg, most of the deaths I am seeing in ICC Blood Draining doesn't have time to heal you as it is reactive but I may be wrong.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warrenar View Post
    Does anyone have any WoL for Blood Draining in ICC? I'd like to see how much healing it is doing throughout an entire night\encounter.
    I could probably find you one, but tbh it's not about overall healing, it's about healing done when you need it. Frankly if it is saving your ass a lot, something is wrong. Imo blood draining is for when you get the really unlucky RNG streaks and you just need more hit points.

    ehh... found one anyways: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/9...jr/details/17/ over the course of the night it proc'd 26 times for Erobinia, if you click on the spell you can see when it healed Eraduun too (29 times, and era got 6 crits). Total healing on Erobinia was 34k
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

    Twitter @Aggathon || @Tankspot || Twitch.Tv/Aggathon

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by krc View Post
    I would be curious to see those logs Agg, most of the deaths I am seeing in ICC Blood Draining doesn't have time to heal you as it is reactive but I may be wrong.
    Admittedly the best example was on Anub'Arak25 hardmode, which is obviously a fight with unique mechanics. On our first insanity kill I dropped to 50hp, if I hadn't had blood draining on I would have died. And that log is probably long since lost in the deleted archives of WoL since that was like 6 months ago.

    The above logs do show that quite a bit of healing went on with blood draining though.

    double postin'!
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

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  7. #27
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    Those are probably the highest numbers I've seen thus far for Blood Draining healing.

    For his boss attempts I see:

    1 Proc during Marrowgar (2102 heal)
    2 Procs during Putricide (3073 [1.5k each] heal)
    1 Proc during Sindragosa (1994 heal)
    4 Procs during Blood Princes (4505 [1.1 each] heal)

    It was four out of the eleven bosses his enchant did something. I'm still not completely convinced this is worthwhile, but those were "smart" heals so I suppose they could have made the difference between a wipe and pass.

    Edit: I realize it's not about overall healing. When I was using this enchant it was during ToGC which didn't have trash. So overall then would've been just for bosses.
    Last edited by Warrenar; 02-18-2010 at 02:45 PM.

  8. #28
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    @Warrrenar;
    If you never drop below 35% HP it never procs. Then again, if you never drop below 35% HP, you could've done the fight without Mongoose or Blade Ward anyway.

    Mongoose is probably the best enchant for Druids and the best avoidance enchant for Paladins, while it comes relatively close to Blade Ward for Warriors.
    Overall, you could probably slap on 25 agi or 25 hit/crit and tank everything just fine, because unlike Berserking for DPS, there is no awesome weapon enchant for tanks (except Runforges).
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  9. #29
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    Beauty of Blood Draining comes out in progression:

    Here's a log of a farm night:
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/8...wb/details/22/
    Blood reserve procced 5 times & healed for a tiny 3860 in total. Nothing to write home about

    Here's a log of a progression night:
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/g...waa/details/4/
    Blood reserve procced 11 times & healed me for 10458.

    It's not about how much healing you get, it's about you not dying while the healers scramble to get you back up. If you go deep into logs the enchant did exactly that.

    <3 Blood Draining

  10. #30
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    Blood draining is pretty awesome in ICC. There are several fights where you can get spiked down pretty fast (especially the heroics, both 10 and 25). I'm really happy with blood draining on lich king tho. He hits very, very hard and it usually ends up healing me ~10x per fight. Once I'm a bit more comfortable with my hp pool, I'll probably be using the corpse tongue coin on lich king as well.

  11. #31
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    To answer the OP question, as you can see there's still some debate which enchant is the best and why it is the best.

  12. #32
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    The beauty of Blood Draining is that it's always effective healing + the more health you get the bigger chance of proccing it. Explanation on the last bit: Everything in WotLK is about burst damage, tanks take loads of it but so far we've either taken too little to drop below 35% or we drop down to 0% and die - a scenario where Blood Draining won't proc. The more health you get and the bigger your "35%" become, the higher the usage of Blood Draining.

    That being said; i still don't see much use for it. The absolute maximum healing i've recieved from it during a progression raid in Ulduar a while back, was something in the lines of 30k over the course of 4 hours worth of raiding. And funny enough; the logs all show a bigger overheal from healers aswell, so i would've survived anyway theoretically.
    It doesn't make that big of a difference which tank enchant you use. There's nothing exceptional and unless you're missing +hit and go for Accuracy, it's pretty much irrelevant.

  13. #33
    I used to have Blood Draining on my Pally Tank, but I ended up Killing myself due to Argent Defender.

    Switched to Mongoose and Haven't seen a problem yet.

  14. #34
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    how exactly, does argent defender kill you with blood draining?

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  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazeyonoma View Post
    how exactly, does argent defender kill you with blood draining?
    ^ THIS! That statement really confused me, doesn't argent defender make blood draining BETTER?
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ubermicro13 View Post
    I used to have Blood Draining on my Pally Tank, but I ended up Killing myself due to Argent Defender.

    Switched to Mongoose and Haven't seen a problem yet.
    Argent Defender? I think you're referring to Ardent Defender.

    The whole argument about BD causing AD to be leapfrogged was rendered moot waaaaaaay back in 3.2 when AD was changed.

  17. #37
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    The choice between enchants is really easy for me because of one statement I read from a much wiser tank then myself:

    It's not about the the amount of damage you don't take, it's about how much damage you can take.

    Be a Champion, not a hero.
    Drae

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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by drae View Post
    It's not about the the amount of damage you don't take, it's about how much damage you can take.

    I don't understand this logic. Are you expecting to not get healed?

    The thing that has always struck me about stamina is that it's usefulness seems to rapidly decline once you are safely able to survive any worst case scenario combos (things like a stomp and two melee hits, not something like all of your healers dying). Sure you might live longer when all of your healers are silenced or dead by mindlessly stacking stam, but who cares?

    Then again, with mana being a non-issue for healers it really doesn't make a difference either way unless they break their fingers from spamming too much. You may as well pick the enchant with the prettiest graphic.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by garrodd View Post
    I don't understand this logic. Are you expecting to not get healed?

    The thing that has always struck me about stamina is that it's usefulness seems to rapidly decline once you are safely able to survive any worst case scenario combos (things like a stomp and two melee hits, not something like all of your healers dying). Sure you might live longer when all of your healers are silenced or dead by mindlessly stacking stam, but who cares?

    Then again, with mana being a non-issue for healers it really doesn't make a difference either way unless they break their fingers from spamming too much. You may as well pick the enchant with the prettiest graphic.
    God damned, this is so not going to turn into another EHP vs. Avoidance debate. I'm putting my foot down!
    "If the world is something you accept rather than interpret, then you're susceptible to the influence of charismatic idiots." -Neil deGrasee Tyson

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  20. #40
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    I'm saying it's more important to be able to withstand damage then avoid it. Your getting healed, as long as DTPS isn't higher then your healers' HPS it's better to gear to take greater amounts of damage, not less.

    Getting hit consistently for a smaller portion of your life is better then getting hit less often for a larger portion of your life. Ask any healer which they prefer.

    Blood Draining is the only EH enchant. Period. EH stacking is not stamina stacking, as I'm sure you understand.

    EH doesn't stop becoming useful after the "worst case scenario" it makes those worst cases much less dangerous in the event of human error.

    Be a Champion, not a hero.
    Drae

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