It'll get fixed. What we have is a start. If we keep on this track of identifying the best methods to heal and still fall short at 85 Blizzard can fine tune the systems and make it better. It's definitely more engaging now. If they can make it a bit more so and balance the numbers correctly, we'll have something nice. HPW was a step, but I feel like it would be nice if we had our own methods of building upon stuff to make our heals stronger when we're "doing it right" and the Speed of Light nerf suggestion that I read on MMO Champion confuses me, hopefully it's not true.
This is my new spec, which should be what Odene is using: Holy Paladin
For now it's probably the best choice at 80. However, when we get to 85 it will short-change us on potentially useful talents later in the ret tree, which may cause some shifts, we'll see. I like Paragon of Virtue, but I think I can live without it, alternating CDs instead of relying on one.
Made a slight coloration change to the HPW2 aura. All you need to do is delete the current one and use:
Just number 2 mind you (which shows 2 of the 3 runes), the rest are fine. This should keep the coloration between then consistent.Code:Version:3.0.0W; b:0; g:0.6078; thresholdinvert:true; icon:Spell_fire_meteorstorm; x:3; customname:HPW2.tga; bufftype:10; alpha:1; isResting:0; threshold:2; PowerType:9; customtex:true; size:0.82; torsion:1.5; y:55
Once you swap out a couple of pieces, you shouldn't have any mp5 problems. For instance, I swapped my neck piece out for a HM25-man festergut neck, HM25-man Dreamwalkers legs. Reforge them both to drop 40% crit and add haste. reforge around 2-3 other pieces of your choosing. drop some more crit, and add a little spirit for the mp5. Do this and you'll have excellent crit, excellent haste, and very good mp5. enough mp5 you'll only need to use Holy Light with the Infusion of Light buff you get from critting on a holy shock, the rest you can casually cast Flash of Light. DO NOT mistake me for spamming flash of light. Casually means picking and choosing your targets carefully. As Lulia said, you need to be patient, and pick ur targets carefully. And before the fight starts, try to position your paladin in a spot where you can effectively use Light of Dawn. Holy Shock is always ur #1 go to spell.
I disagree on getting Improved Judge down the ret tree, with the 20 yd range you get from Enlightened judgement, and the fact you can wait a full MINUTE before ever needing to look at judgement again, makes me believe thats a waste of 2 points. usually you're close enough to the boss to be able to run 5-10 yards, throw a judgement and move back without losing 100+ hps. +2 Eternal Glory is much more help imo, for the 30% chance at a no mana costing, instant heal, with a chance for another one. I once got 5 of those procs in a row. Never looked back after that.Originally Posted by Lulia
Aura Mastery is next to useless, when popped it lasts 6 seconds and adds an extra 13% resistances (which is what we normally run since theres more then likely a prot paladin) with the extra stamina we've gained from the items, That talents provides very little damage mitagation, and feel the point is better put into Blessed Life for 50% in the event u get hit by an AoE frostbolt, DnD, add whacking you, etc...
Other then that I agree with your spec completely.
Well, if you're only using Flash of Light when you need to, then you're probably not an "FoL" pally. This whole patch really threw the whole "FoL vs HL" debate out the window really. Each spell has a distinctive use. I suppose there might be a bit of a debate between DL and FoL, but we'll see what happens at 85.
We'll take this in points:
Enlightened Judgements only gives you 10 yards, however, the Judgement range is 10 yards, so you get a 20 yard range after speccing into Enlightened Judgements, but the talent itself only gives you 10. In WotLK, we've been used to having 30 yard ranges on our judgements due to how the old Enlightened Judgements worked. So it's mostly a comfort thing really, to be healing as we've been healing.
I haven't played with Eternal Glory. However, the talent feels very much optional to me. You have to remember that we make choices based upon our playstyles, and that affects, quite a bit, how we choose what to do what we do. In some cases the theorycrafting will point to one thing as clearly better than another. There's no argument. As, for instance, with the meta gem comparison earlier. Or in taking Divinity over Crusade at the moment. In other cases, however, the distinction is not so clear. And when there's not a significant difference that theorycrafting can show, a lot of it comes down to measuring to one's play style.
It may come in Cata that Paladin Healers will be forced into melee a lot more and the extra range is unneeded (in fact I suspect it might very well be so). However, until then, the question is of keeping myself comfortable and playing well, or trying to improve a mechanic I'm not yet used to and am likely to waste a little. For me the choice is clear, for you otherwise. It doesn't make one right or wrong, just different. That's the goal and aim of talents. Sadly it can't always be that way, in this small case I think it can.
Blessed Life triggers from direct damage, so I find it highly unlikely that it trigger off of AoEs. However, if you can find proof or evidence of this, do feel free to submit it, I'd be interested to see otherwise. However, damage is so random and RNG that it can usually not be relied upon.Aura Mastery is next to useless, when popped it lasts 6 seconds and adds an extra 13% resistances (which is what we normally run since theres more then likely a prot paladin) with the extra stamina we've gained from the items, That talents provides very little damage mitagation, and feel the point is better put into Blessed Life for 50% in the event u get hit by an AoE frostbolt, DnD, add whacking you, etc...
Saying Aura Mastery is useless is patently untrue. I label it an "optional" talent but highly recommend it because of the amount of mitigation it proves against elemental damage types when you have a resistance aura up. By popping Aura Mastery, you get a mana-less "free" 15% EXTRA resistance against a damage type which is particularly useful during phases where a boss is using a raid-wide AoE such as Flame Jets on Ignis or Pungent Blight on Festergut. 15% less healing needing to be done for the ENTIRE raid for 6 seconds eclipses anything any other talent could offer.
hmm yeah you're right. i skipped over the "Direct Damage" part. In that case you're probally right about the aura mastery selection. Ahh and sorry for my miswording, I meant with the talent you get 20 yards overall. not that the talent itself provides 20 yards. the 10 yard loss for me wasn't to extreme, I generally stay that close to the boss anyways, just so im in the middle of both range, and melee, and have easy access to both ends.
But yes I am reallly starting to like your thoughts on the Aura Mastery vs. blessed life. I do think that since blessed life was more of a pvp talent pre-patch, they wanted to leave it that way. direct damage from a player with a 2 second cooldown makes ALOT of sense, now that you pointed that out. *runs to SW, pays 52g!*
and by casually, from my above post, I mean in the sense you can top players off with FoL, and only need to rely on Holy Light when you get the infusion of light buff. I'm hoping for next patch, or tweaks before Cata comes out, they change Tower of Radiance to have maybe a 50% chance to generate a holy power from using Word of Glory. That way when you use Glyph of Long Word, it places a HoT that has a chance each tick to grant us a holy power instead of us switching back between our beacon target. Seems as though they're going to want us to rely alot on Holy Power.
P.S im so happy I found a holy paladin discussion forum
Oh, there's a lot of good Holy Pally stuff out there on the internet. And I suspect you will also feel VERY comfortable in Cataclysm as it seems like Blizzard does want us to be more "melee-based" healers. I will have to eventually get used to the change, but, for right now, I'm not attempting to. Sooooooooooooo many bad experiences leveling trying to play "catch-up" with the tank or getting an unfortunate melee-range silence or interrupt. *sighs*
well, with our level 83 talent as well, it heals everything in a 20yd area. with the judgement being 40 yards away, wouldn't be as effective, and also our Light of Dawn spell having a 30yd range, if you were even 35 yd's away, it'd miss all the melee. Its not that the 40 yards range is bad or anything, I just dont wanna get comfortable healing from far away, and then blizzard all of a sudden says, "no! we're removing range on heals so holy paladins have to be in melee range!" but I agree it was nice pre-patch, being able to judgement from far away, and I reallly do miss it =(
I just respecced and got 3/3 Divinity instead of Crusade. Holy shock used to crit for 10k with Crusade, now with divinity its critting for 8.3-8.6k. Like you said, a preference choice. Depends wheather you wanna rely on your holy shock, or your other healing abilities.
Working on a quick 4.0.1 Holy Paladin Gameplay vid just to share with people on how the heals are working out. It's in a 5-man and I made a few errors, but it's not really intended for people who can pick out the mistakes anyways and I'll be talking during it to sort of explain what I'm doing and what I could do better. A lot of you won't need it, but it'll be helpful to some I hope. Also, my UI is AWFUL right now. I'm still suffering from what 4.0.1 did to my Addon setup. *sighs*
Need a new Viewport. Have to reconfigure SBF... ugh
ATM Im using Sunnart as my Viewport. I never used Satrina's. Currently my addons are:
Sunnart
Bartender 4
Recount
Icehud4
Chatter
I'm thinking about adding maybe Xpearl or Pitbull, for raid UI, but the new one Blizzard provided us with is very good. Looks alot like Healbot.
I'm quite happy with the Addon setup I had and should be able to mostly return to it, albeit with some work on my part due to the UI scaling screwing a lot of things up and SBF having been screwed by 4.0.1 and needing to be mostly reconfigured. The biggest thing is the Viewport. I had been using CBH Viewport, but it causes rendering issues with the water. I'm sort of wary of any of the "art" viewports since I don't want art, just a black space, but I'll be checking them out.
With sunnart you can change the theme to a "Solid Color" and that way make it Black, white, purple, green, wwhatever color you want it to be. I personally use Rogue, I'll add a screen shot of my UI atm. I joined a random AV to give you a view of the raid UI that blizz provides as well.
http://img231.imageshack.us/i/wowscr...510224207.jpg/ -Basic layout of my UI. Shows Sunnart.
http://img192.imageshack.us/i/wowscr...510224620.jpg/ -Icehud4. All the debuffs on one side, buffs on the other. Your health and mana bars on each side, and then whoever you have clicked health and mana bars.
I had to die to get that screenshot! hope the Sunnart helps you get a better idea.
Also have DBM, but thats a given. I think everyone has DBM at this point.
CBH Viewport causes rendering issues? Interesting.
I agree with Yawn regarding Improved judgement, Crusade or Eternal glory seems like a better place to spend those points. 3/3 Protector of the innoncent also seems a waste. I went 2/3 just to get further up the tree.
I took Aura Mastery, more out of habit than anything else, but i think your right about it being a bit of a waste now. The points are probably better spent in paragon.
Last edited by Mr.Winkle; 10-16-2010 at 07:22 AM.
This is what CBH Viewport was doing to the water:
Not really a fan of how Icehud looks and SBF is fine for me, I just have to set it up again. The only thing I'm really interested in is another Viewport, but it's always intriguing to see how others setup their UIs.
As far as talents, Mr.Winkle. I think that only proves that Blizzard accomplished what they wanted. I'm certain if we went head-to-head in equal gear on a healing-intensive fight that we would find that our healing wasn't terribly different at all, just how our style in going about it was. You may not like some talents and may prefer others, while I'm more comfortable with a different setup. I think that's brilliant, and I wish some of the other classes had a bit more leeway like that.
What do you use your other point for if not 3/3 protector of the innocent? I'm going to assume either Blessed Life, or Paragon of Virtue? I found blessed life to be inefficient. Meaning it doesn't work off AoE spells, and as a healer you rarely pull aggro from anything. Theres the rare fight where an add might hit you once, but Holy Power isn't that difficult to come by. Paragon of Virtue is always a good choice too.
But the extra 4kish heal to yourself (with a chance to crit) means other healers never need to worrry about healing you, because you're always being steadly healed from yourself! I find it to be an exceptionally useful talent. better then paragon of virture, because I only get the chance to use Wings (avenging wrath) once in a fight, so I find that talent to be unhelpful. With those 2 out of the picture, all thats really left is Aura Mastery, unless you want a dps talent =(.
But I LOVEEEEEEEEE Eternal Glory. 30% happens ALOT MORE then you think it would. In a raid I did the other day on LK 25-man, one of our noobie dps failed from Soul Harvest, and Lich King was BEATING on our tank. 6 ETERNAL GLORY Procs. Each healing for 11k. Has to be the most useful Tier-1 talent for Holy IMO! I HIGHLY recommend getting it.
http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc...00000000000000
That is my build ATM, and I am quite happy with the results. In regards to Crusade or Divinity, I found 30% more from Holy Shock more beneficial, since I rarely use Divine Light. (which it would benefit the most from) and found I am constantly spamming Holy Shock (especially with Daybreak.) Holy shock crit with divinity = 8.3-8.6k Holy shock crit with Crusade = 9.8k to 10.3k
Flash of light with divinity = 15.4k - 16k Flash of Light without divinity = 15.2k - 15.5k.
Never really tested it with Divine Light. =( If I respec i'll post some results.
Last edited by yawn.3x; 10-16-2010 at 07:15 PM.
Use sunnart! trust me! you can change it so its that Black Viewport. Just pure Black. I'd show you right now BUT I RAN OUT OF GAME TIME /cry. But with sunnart, you can make it pure black like you have in the picture without the glitch. Exactly like you have! you can also make it smaller or bigger. have one on the top, and sides, whatever suits your needs. It'd be exactly the same as the pic I linked above, minus the funky red, and just all black =) hope that helps.This is what CBH Viewport was doing to the water:
Not really a fan of how Icehud looks and SBF is fine for me, I just have to set it up again. The only thing I'm really interested in is another Viewport, but it's always intriguing to see how others setup their UIs.
As far as talents, Mr.Winkle. I think that only proves that Blizzard accomplished what they wanted. I'm certain if we went head-to-head in equal gear on a healing-intensive fight that we would find that our healing wasn't terribly different at all, just how our style in going about it was. You may not like some talents and may prefer others, while I'm more comfortable with a different setup. I think that's brilliant, and I wish some of the other classes had a bit more leeway like that.
Yeah i switched to sunart, works well.
Yes I put a point into Paragon rather than Protector. I agree healing on yourself is useful but i think 2/3 is more than sufficient.
I like the idea of dropping divinity to take Eternal glory and Crusade. Might try that out tomorrow.
Despite how heavily our tank healing got nerfed, I've actually started to enjoy it more after my raid tonight. It's definitely better than spamming one spell 90% of the time.
Now hopefully we don't just sit at the bottom of the healing metres forever.
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