This is currently a debate raging on EJ right now, and I'm still a firm believer in the offset pieces having priority. I think haste is far more advantageous to progression healing.Originally Posted by Haevan
In addition, like Soan said, the value you gain is so minimal that it makes sense to let classes that need it more take the tier.
Hey guys, glad to see this stuff is still alive. Please let me know if anything needs updating. My WoW account just got active again, but a varied schedule means raiding isn't really feasible. However, I'm still active and interested in the community and will do my best to offer what input I can from the sidelines. It seems you also have Soan and Papapaint to offer that first-hand raiding perspective. Yawn too, though his posts tend to be a bit more controversial
I wouldn't really say I've got a first hand raiding perspective anymore. Started studying so don't have alot of time for raiding anymore.
Different situations, same plight.I wouldn't really say I've got a first hand raiding perspective anymore. Started studying so don't have alot of time for raiding anymore.
Papapaint is though!
I'm still around!Different situations, same plight.
Papapaint is though!
The value of our Tier set has changed in my mind with some of the later fights in this tier, with Chogall, Nef, Council, Sinestra, and Alakir encouraging vigorous use of HR as well as all clocking in at around 10 minutes. In addition, the conviction nerf to HR has increased the value of the 2 piece bonus, since HL should basically be your somewhat constant filler spell whenever possible.
Holy
Illuminated Healing shield duration is now 15 seconds, up from 8 seconds. In addition, Illuminated Healing has been increased to provide 1.5% effect per mastery, up from 1.25%
Papapaint, where will this mastery increase put our mastery on the priority list above crit? should getting more mastery be something we will be interested in after 4.1?
Negative. Best I can see, this brings mastery more in line with crit, but still far below haste. It does make getting 4pc a little less painful, though.
Mastery is still very disappointing and I'll still be reforging out of mastery before crit.
As for 4pc vs offset that's a good rough start to see what the stat difference between the tier and offset pieces. You're not going to wear all 5 tier pieces, you'll want one of the spirit/haste off set pieces for sure. Also, if 4pc bonus gets changed to grant spirit off of Holy Shock instead of Holy Radiance, it will be much stronger.
I've only been raiding for 3 1/2 weeks, but healing plate drops seem non-existent, I might just start banking valor (especially given the valor pieces aren't that great) and see if the 4pc bonus changes make it live and then once I get shoulders grab the other pieces. So far I've passed on shoulder tokens.
My Armory (Healadin turned Tankadin for Firelands )
Eat Grenade Stupids :: Casual 10m :: 3 hours, 2 nights a week(if we're lucky)
heh, my experience was the opposite of yours icephyre. I had all but 1 of the off set pieces within a month.
The chest is the strongest offset piece to take, by a long shot.
After reforging/gemming, you're looking at a comparison of under 300 haste for an increase in Int, crit, mastery, and regen. The deciding factor for 4pc was always "how necessary will regen be for me, and how often will I use HR?" In hard modes, the answer has become "very necessary, and a whole damn lot." That's part of what's swaying my decision--in normal modes, there was no reason not to use haste over regen. Heroics is a different story.
So basically, if you're in a position to be doing hard modes, get the 4pc. If you're only doing normals, you can safely ignore the 4pc?
That's my current opinion, and it's what the math suggests. However, I'm working on getting both 4pc and haste sets to swap from fight to fight.
Wow. Thank you for creating this guide. I just got a tauren paladin to 80 and starting in the cataclysm zones. I level as prot but instance as a healer. I didn't know a whole lot about what i needed as a holy paladin. Thanks again!
The 4pc + offset chest is a clear winner, and gets even better if 4pc bonus proc off of HS goes live. The theory crafting community really dropped the ball on the whole haste offset pieces being better than the 4pc + chest offset. If the offset haste pieces increased through put is not needed for HM's, clearly the increased through put it gives(which is negligible) is definitely not needed for non-HM's and people would've been better off getting the 4pc + offset chest all along.
Soan, I wish I had your luck!
My Armory (Healadin turned Tankadin for Firelands )
Eat Grenade Stupids :: Casual 10m :: 3 hours, 2 nights a week(if we're lucky)
I'd actually disagree with you on the theory crafting community dropping the ball. It's more a matter of originally the bonus being pretty crap, and re-evaluating it given the information coming out of hard modes + the minor buffs mastery has received. The proposed change to the 4pc will certainly make a difference there too.
From what I can remember from doing the normal modes (been a month or two now since I raided), HR didn't always get alot of use, so the higher haste was more desirable so I could cast more HLs etc and therefore not have any mana issues at all, thus making the 4pc pretty useless for me in normal modes.
Whereas from what Papapaint says, it sounds like HR usage goes way up in hard modes, I'd assume DL usage goes up also, thus the need for regen goes up, making the tier more valuable than offset pieces, even if the extra haste is also desirable. I'd say it really comes down to more of a balancing act between fights where you definitely want the 4pc, and fights where maybe it's not quite as needed, whereas in normals where you can just stack haste and be fine for everything.
This is it exactly.
There was very little reason to use HR in normal modes. In addition, the question boiled down to "is it worth me taking these tier tokens over someone else on Conq token?" and the answer was easily "no."
However, the most difficult fights in the game right now all easily stretch for 8+ minutes, require heavy tank healing, and encourage HR usage nearly on-cooldown (I'm considering these fights to be Ascendant Council, Chogall, Sinestra, Nefarian, and Al'Akir heroic modes). With this in mind, regen becomes more important; haste not so much. Haste is still far superior to crit and mastery, but after reforging and such, the haste loss becomes incredibly small for a gain of int, crit, and lots of haste.
That being said, there's such a small difference between the sets that it's nothing to really go crazy over. If you've got a bunch of 372 offsets, don't start swapping to 359 tier.
I'm not arguing so much over whats better for normal modes, but for whats best for long term, ie those planning to do HM's, and that's clearly tier. That being said, I've passed on the H chest token being that it was a bigger upgrade for the spriest.
Quick question that may have been discussed previously, is it correct to assume heartsong is better than power torrent for regen, even if one factors in divine plea usage while it's procc'ed (granted that it's a time when you can use it, I guess that's the kicker) and arcane torrent?
On a side note, finally some int plate pieces dropped and managed to scoop up a spirit ring + weapon off of Cho'gall (yes, I know the weapon from Nefarian is better, and the one from Al'akir is even better, but one uses what drops).
My Armory (Healadin turned Tankadin for Firelands )
Eat Grenade Stupids :: Casual 10m :: 3 hours, 2 nights a week(if we're lucky)
I havn't replied in awhile because of work, and just been overall busy. Was looking over the PTR and noticed quite a few changes.
Illuminated Healing (Mastery) has been adjusted slightly so that if a paladin refreshes an existing copy of his or her own Illuminated Healing on a target, the new absorption amount will be added into the old absorption amount and the duration will be reset. The total absorption created can never exceed 1/3 of the casting paladin's health.
Althought I think this is a good buff, I personally think it still doesn't make Mastery better then spr, haste, OR crit. Given the fact HR or LoD doesn't work with our Mastery, It seems they are trying to make Paladins strictly Tank healers. My reasoning for this is: If you stack a shield on a dps, alot of the fights damage is very random. sometimes that DPS might not get hit for long periods of time, in which case the shield will be wasted. However if you stack a shield on a tank, It provides excellent protection seeing as how some shields can range from 40 to 50k. Would like some opinions on that. But as it stands, I still prefer Haste > crit > mastery.
Another change they made was our 2pc set bonus and 4pc.
Holy Paladin 2-Piece: Old bonus removed and replaced -- Healing with holy shock has a 40% chance to grant you 6% of your base mana.
Holy Paladin 4-Piece: Old bonus removed and replaced -- Your Divine Light, FoL, and Holy Light, spells also heal an injured target within 8 yards for 10% of the amount healed.
The 2pc is actually an upgrade as our base mana is..26,700ish? if I remember right. So our 2pc can restore around 1400 mana off a spell that we use on CD. The 4pc is like a mini Atonement. I'm not sure how I feel about it yet.. It looks nice I'm not sure if its worth going for though. Would like any inputs on the new changes! feel free to comment.
In conclusion as it stands right now, I'll be going for my 2 piece (which will consist of Legs, and Helmet. which give stam, intel, spr, haste) The legs and helm off-pieces that drop give crit / spr. or spr / crit. But would like any inputs at all like I said.
I like the idea of the 4 set bonus to be perfectly honest. Also in the PTR notes they are increasing the critical effects of healing to 200% up from 150% so that doubles your heal! Meaning my divine light could heal for 50k-60k ish (Obviously Fireland gear included) and 10% from that 6k is always something that can be seen as nice.
Compared to the T11 4pc set I do find it a let down as well.
Healing Beacon change I am loving! We finally can spam HL without having to worry
yeah I like the idea of it. It does sound like it's going to be nice. In all I think we're getting more of a buff then a debuff. The increased mana cost to our spells will kind of negate itself with the increase to spirit we'll get from gear, AND our set bonus. so TBH, as soon as we get 2-piece we probably won't even notice a change at all. But Yes I AGREE. the change to beacon is sooo nice! and yeah the 2x crit will be nice, but unless we're healing a tank, alot of our heals are generally an overheal anyways. The crit will just be really nice for our mastery.
At least our Mastery isn't USELESS like it was before. I do feel that maybe not this tier, but next tier, when gear gets crazy high numbers, our mastery will be extremely good, but I also feel that with the amount of complaints they get, they'll rework our mastery completely.
I still feel like we should get the priests mastery. The small HoT we put on people. Seems designed for a holy paladin IMO. but it seems like blizz wants us to be strictly tank healers.
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