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Thread: Cataclysm Holy Paladin Guide

  1. #21
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    awesome info man i already had a good idea of what i needed but this confirmed everything and that im doing a good job in my progression =)

  2. #22
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    the 11Mp5/ 3% crit gem seems to be the best meta. the int / mana on cast gem has no use as we never lose any mana.

    Also, most flash pallies I talk to seem to agree that socket bonuses should only be matched if the bonus is spell power, or haste if you're under the 676 haste soft cap.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt_mca321 View Post
    the 11Mp5/ 3% crit gem seems to be the best meta. the int / mana on cast gem has no use as we never lose any mana.

    Also, most flash pallies I talk to seem to agree that socket bonuses should only be matched if the bonus is spell power, or haste if you're under the 676 haste soft cap.
    While your post is certainly appreciated, the reason why I will continue to suggest Insightful Earthsiege Diamond over anything else comes down to the fact that it is strictly better. Not only does it have a mana return which factors into its overall mp5, but it also has the +21 int. This gives you mana, spellpower, the ability to cast more spells, AND mp5. If you assume .88 mp5 for every 1 int, that's 18mp5. This takes into account things like replenishment and use of Divine Plea, but a lot of those things should be in a good raid composition. Even if any factors reduced its mp5 to 11, the meta would still have more mp5 from the proc than the crit will give. It will also still give the mana and the spellpower, etc...

    As far as Flash paladin gemming, I more or less implied the same thing. Most Flash paladins will just gem spellpower, I only mentioned that they might be more inclined to gem for socket bonuses if the bonus included spellpower, Holy Light paladins really won't find it in their best interest to socket match at all, hence why I made that distinction. I didn't mention the haste, so I may add that, but I want to look into it first.

    Here's the source for my comments regarding Int's mp5.

    If you find anything else that might need more clarification or information, do let me know.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lulia View Post
    Judgement of Light/Wisdom
    Base cost: 5% of base mana (Roughly 197 at level 80)
    Base cast time: Instant[INDENT] These are both extremely important spells in the Holy Paladin repertoire, and you will be using one or the other in just about any given encounter if you took Judegements of the Pure (and if you didnít, then good luck to you O.o). Which one you decide to use is primarily dependent upon what other Paladins in the raid decide to use. I tend to choose Judgement of Light by default since it heals melee who attack the boss (thus doing my job) and Iím rarely hitting the boss myself to get mana back (that speaks to other issues I should be addressing 9 times out of 10). However, if another Paladin is already judging light, then I will use Judgement of Wisdom if I can in order to balance it out and offer help to any Paladin tanks or DPS that might need it. And if, for some reason, a fight is particularly mana-intensive and I need to recover some mana, then I will judge wisdom and hit the boss. This tactic however, is one that should be used with caution as you cannot heal when using melee to regenerate mana.
    Probaboly already said but this is kind of silly; a good ret paly knows that they should be casting JoW because they are very likely to keep JoW up continuously and therefore provide a raid dps boost by preventing hunters, etc. from going oom as quickly (the popular theory being that less downtime = more dps). Holy palies most likelyl will not be refreshing their Judgment on every CD because realisticaly they wont alwayds have the GCD to spare and will at the least only Judge once a minute to keep JotW up. Therefore, holy palies should be using JoL and ret palies should be use JoW, and to take one step further they should just comunicate this simple point to one another.

  5. #25
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    That's pretty much what I stated in the thread you quoted. The only difference is if you're going in to melee the boss in which case you want to make sure wisdom is up just in case it isn't, for the mana return. So I'm not following your point. Generally there's enough paladins in a 25 man raid for this to not even matter, and, even in 10 man raids, this is already a moot point.

  6. #26
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    Most discussion of HoL vs FoL seems to be in the context of raids. Are both viable in heroic 5-mans? I'm collecting a PvP holy set with a view to trying for arena as a holy offspec (tanking is my main spec) and guess I will be gemming mainly for FoL. Would I be able to heal in heroics too?

    I understand the argument about the effectiveness of HoL and if I was planning to raid heal, I would go that route. But my impression of heroics (from a tank perspective) is that often times the well geared tank does not take that much damage and the problem is often the dps dying during some chaos - so I could imagine FoL working well in heroics.

  7. #27
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    In nearly all heroics I could keep a tank up back in naxx gear(ilvl 213) with just sacred shield, judgment of light, and a few instant flashes when my holy crits. Note I used holy shock offensively and got into melee and dpsed. This was also before you got a free hot when flashing your sacred shield target.

    Suffice to say you can do whatever the hell you want and after very little practice can keep up people in heroics.

  8. #28
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    It depends on the heroic. Even some of the old, original heroics, can do a significant amount of damage to the tank that requires more than snoozing at the keyboard to keep moving with the group. Also, if you have a poorly geared tank, they'll just take more damage and your heals will need to be better. But, as Meeks said, in most situations, you really don't have to do much as a Holy Paladin healer. Really well-geared tanks just don't take any significant damage. This is further compounded if you have a ret paladin or a shadow priest in the group.

  9. #29
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    I am shooting for the Holy light Spec, am so confuse atm. Ok, i change my gems to most of them 23 intell. and some other odd ones. I did everything i though and was suggested by fellow top of the line holy palies i know. And I don't feel i quite grasp the concept of the spec.
    AND all of that about the divene plea and such. I don't know if am doing it right. Need less to say my healing is suffering from my ignorance. argg.
    Ok, this is wat i do when raid healing:self buff concecration aura and seal of wisdom. then while healing use Beacon of light and Sacred shield on tank heal the off tank with holy light and use holy shock or judgement of wisdom to crit. also if below 50%on mana use the divine plea, and toss a flash of light here and there.the crit will bring judgementof the pureblessed, divine plea, energized and grace.I got kicked of 2 guilds because they though my heals suck which i do.Can you help me out, what am i doing wrong. I should be kicking butty on heal. am i at this point frustrated.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexah View Post
    I am shooting for the Holy light Spec, am so confuse atm. Ok, i change my gems to most of them 23 intell. and some other odd ones. I did everything i though and was suggested by fellow top of the line holy palies i know. And I don't feel i quite grasp the concept of the spec.
    AND all of that about the divene plea and such. I don't know if am doing it right. Need less to say my healing is suffering from my ignorance. argg.
    Ok, this is wat i do when raid healing:self buff concecration aura and seal of wisdom. then while healing use Beacon of light and Sacred shield on tank heal the off tank with holy light and use holy shock or judgement of wisdom to crit. also if below 50%on mana use the divine plea, and toss a flash of light here and there.the crit will bring judgementof the pureblessed, divine plea, energized and grace.I got kicked of 2 guilds because they though my heals suck which i do.Can you help me out, what am i doing wrong. I should be kicking butty on heal. am i at this point frustrated.
    Please post your armory so we can take a look at that.

    As to divine plea its usage is completely dependent on each encounter. There is no solid rule about when to use it. When possible you time it around a lull in the fight when nothing is happening. If there are no breaks in the action you have to find times when the healing is less intense and use it then. On a fight like BQ where you are bombing holy lights from start to finish and there are no breaks I just plea at 80% then on cooldown regardless of what is going on. It is also important to keep casting holy lights even while plea is running...you can keep your tanks alive through any normal damage even with plea up.

    I would also suggest only using holy shock when it is required. If someone is going to die before a holy light can finish casting then holy shock...otherwise do not use. I go through a lot of fights without casting it once, some fights I am casting it close to cooldown. However even when I use it alot it is important to be sure you need it, not just cast it because you can.

    I am not sure what you mean about criting and judgement of the pureblessed.

  11. #31
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    Between the posts of the guide in this thread, and Meek's response, I do think you'll have more than enough information to get you headed in the right direction. I do want to make some sort of video, but I'm an overworked college student. D:

  12. #32
    Could I pay you in ramen and other college like things to make a video?

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypstix View Post
    Could I pay you in ramen and other college like things to make a video?

    Will it get me an A on me Thesis and in my two Research courses? :P

    I'll make one! I just can't be expedient about it

  14. #34
    Sadly no, but I'll give you an A for effort!

    No rush, I was just tossing out something funny. Thank you for your guide it's helped me tons, and all the poor puggers out there too. :P

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypstix View Post
    Sadly no, but I'll give you an A for effort!

    No rush, I was just tossing out something funny. Thank you for your guide it's helped me tons, and all the poor puggers out there too. :P
    I know, I know. I was being silly right along with you.

    By the way, my dorm had a Ramen eating competition my freshman year. I was in it. I've never eaten Ramen since.

    But... back to Paladin things!

  16. #36
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    Another thing about judgements that is missed very often is that you will get a decent amount of mana when you judge and JoW is up on the boss. In my setup a judgement will give me 1.7k mana back and I try to judge on CD if nothing prevents me from doing so. Sometimes I can delay the use of DP long enough that I never have to use it unmitigated (no 2pc T10 available to me since this is my second specc).

    Cheers!
    skaggi

  17. #37
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    Running on Empty

    This sticky was very informative, and I thank you for it.

    My guild has been moving into 25 mans and I've been struggling to tank heal with what was basically a flash build. I've been looking to transition into a light build and I think the 51/17/3 build you have suggested is the one I'm going to try.

    I've been doing some testing on dummies and just some lower end raids and I'm still having some issues with mana. Basically, I can light spam for about 1:40 before I run out. Obviously I'm not sitting in raids constantly casting light until I've drained my pool, but the fact remains that I continue to struggle with running out of mana. One of the fights in particular I've had trouble with is Festergut, my overhealing is insane (Something like 70%) and I'm not even topping the healing meter. If you have any advice on how to balance mana regen and efficient light heals, I would appreciate it.

    Armory: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...edar&cn=Anhela
    Raid Mods: Pally Power, Grid (just started playing with it), and decursive.

  18. #38
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    The best advice that can be given to a pally experiencing mana issues is to be proactive with your cooldowns. Don't wait to get low on mana, use them early and use them often. If you're not standing in melee range for festergut you should be as well. Obviously if you're worried about the healing loss from using plea, offset it with Avenging Wrath or a trinket. Once you get 2pc t10 you can also use Divine Illumination as another method of offsetting it. If you use them early enough you can get through when fester has 3 stacks without needing them, and they'll be off cooldown and ready to be used again once he's exhaled.

    I wouldn't worry about overhealing either, our last festergut has me doing something ridiculous like 80% overheal, it's just something that comes with being a holy light spamming paladin. For reference, here's the WoL for that kill. I can generally time it such that as the fight ends I still have about anywhere from 5-10k mana left.

    Ka Pai, GMT+12 recruiting now!

  19. #39
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    A quick look at your armory reveals that your mana regen may be a bit low. Mp5 is not a #1 or even a #2 stat priority, but, when it's low, you're going to have more noticeable mana issues. As Odene said. Generally speaking, you should pop Divine Plea at around 75% mana (some do it a little before, some do it a little after). Depending on whether or not the fight is healing intensive, you may or may not also want to pop a CD like Avenging Wrath or 2pc t10 Divine Illumination. The trickiest question is generally whether or not to offset your Divine Plea as you will likely have more than 1 Divine Plea in a fight that you won't be able to offset, and you don't want that to be a moment when you desperately need the heals.

    Another thing to note is that spamming spells is never effective. For instance, on Festergut, depending on my other healer, I won't use much holy light during 1-stack and even sometimes during 2-stack. Instead, I'll go to Flash of Light which is much less mana intensive. The rule of thumb is whether or not you have time to bring your tank back up with a Holy Light before they die. If your tank feels like paper and seems to go below 1/2 a lot, then you probably can't use Flash of Light at all. However, if your tank is avoiding attacks and has a sizeable health pool, you can sneak away with tossing a couple of flash of lights, then a holy light, then a couple flash of lights, then a holy light, etc... And if there's no damage going on, there's no need to cast a spell. Use that moment to hit the boss for mana, or to refresh Beacon or Sacred Shield if they get close to running out.

    Healing well requires critical thinking, and making priorities. It's something that's very difficult to formulate and thus exceedingly difficult to give advice on in regards to style. Some Paladins would be appalled at using anything other than Holy Light spam. Some people would probably say that I use Holy Shock too much. To that, I say that I top healing meters in raids that I'm in, I don't generally run out of mana, and I keep people alive. I do what works for me, based on my on-the-spot decisions. You will certainly have to find what works for you. Still, I hope Odene or I (or both) have managed to give you some tools to help make those decisions.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Lulia View Post
    Hit is just like Spirit. Itís considered a DPS stat, and many people will consider a healer a noob if they seem them with an item that has hit. However, anyone worth their weight in salt understands that hit also does not hurt a healer. Once again, it takes points away from the item on stats that are more useful to the Paladin, but if the item is an upgrade in other stats, then it is still an upgrade. Same not as Spirit though, be mindful of your DPS buddies that might roll on the item, they should get higher priority and any good raid leader will probably let them roll first anyways. As a final note: even though I say Hit is like Spirit, it will help you land your judgements more often on your target. The value of this is usually just an occasional GCD or two in a fight, but it does make it more useful than Spirit.
    I'm actually sick and tired of people looking at my Paladin's gear and seeing he has Seethe, from Forge of Souls, and telling me that it is a DPS item and I shouldn't have it - when any good Holy Paladin knows that there isn't much else they CAN use! Pre-ToC, most Holy Paladins will be aiming to get this due to the Paladin's disability in that they cannot use Daggers, and there are some nice Healer daggers out there, Surgeon's Needle is one such dagger. When I then tell them I'm aiming for Frost Needle from Lord Marrowgar 10 Man, they tell me I'm gimp and call me a nab. The way I see it - yes, it's primarily a DPS item, useful for a Mage, Warlock or Shadow Priest - but I need to keep Judgements of the Pure active, which requires me to actually HIT the target with my Judgements, so with the talent increasing it's hit chance, and the hit from these items - that makes "hit", a Healer stat for me, as it becomes "haste".. so.. people can stop moaning to be honest.

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