Need help with prot pvp for S8

[Executionerz91]

Ok with S8 now open and the little nerf to warbringer. Im wondering how to go and gem and chant for prot pvp. Possible where to find good prot pvp gear too maybe
But im now getting into arena 2v2 (Holy pally as partner) and 3v3 (Holy pally Frost mage). So far im arms with a 3v3,5v5 arms spec for sword Spec. I do pretty well but i wanna have it where i can handle the casters and keep a good amount of cc as well as Dmg or so.
ive been watching Swifty videos and know that arp and block are good to aim for but what about Strength?
I am a tauren warrior with Jc and BS both maxed out.
I mix between keybinding and clicking at times.
This is a spec that I am thinking of using as well for prot pvp- http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#LcbbZ...ibIksGo:dz0ozM
Here is my armory to so it helps better understand kinda where i stand a bit. http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...n=Executionerz
Computer specs- http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product...=1&topnav=&s=1#
Thanks for any and all help and advice.
P.S.-Not afraid of any criticism so be as burtally honest as you want. I am wanted to be at my best for S8 this year.

[Destruyen]

spec i use for pvprot: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#Lhdu0fZhoZiczrMfzidIdsGo

that gives your devastate a 9 rage cost which is where most of your damage will come from aside from shield slam and shockwaves.

you will want to pick up some pve dps gear and mix and match with pvp gear to give you a good resil amount (i run ~600 as prot) and armor pen/crit. 2pc t9 adds 6% more arp for free basically so try grabbing the shoulders and chest (or chest and helm if you need the hit from the helm) and use that as your base. pvp legs, gloves and helm (or shoulders instead of helm depending on your t9 pieces) should round out your main pieces for resil and crit. gem full strength, it converts to attack power for devastate and block value for shield slams. the rest of your gear should be about getting to a comfortable resilience level for you and 25% crit and 5% hit. pick up a slow one hander with nice dps stats like ap, crit, and armor pen since the higher weapon damage will boost devastate.

[Executionerz91]

Thanks Dest for the info so it is a big help. but as for weapon wise what do you think be best wise i know it better being a slow weapon...but as in speed as 2.60 or somthing close to that? And as for enchanting goes enchant for atk and Hp?
This weapon to be correct- http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40491

[Kazeyonoma]

slower is better technically so 2.6 or 2.0+ is better for devastate scaling, as for enchanting, all of your gear should be for pure dps stats, and for your weapon put berserking and your shield titanium plating (50% less disarm)

[Executionerz91]

hmm ok thanks for the tips now i gotta go find a good slow dps weapon. Im so happy to use my fav spec in pvp.
And what about our block value for cap wise? stil does anything or no?

[Destruyen]

i dont even worry about block value since i wear pve dps gear and pvp gear so 0 block value from gear other than what i get out of strength. there are some pretty good 2.6 speed one handers in the new 5 man heroics, or if you can get into a pug anub'arak 10 drops a nice axe and a nice mace. pick whichever one you can get, and enchant it with berserking if you have the gold.

[Executionerz91]

hmm ya well ima try with block value since i got alot of block value gear atm. as for a good 2.0-2.6 weapon POS H http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50191 , HOR N http://www.wowhead.com/?item=49840, or http://www.wowhead.com/?item=49827 was what i was gonna choose. But if block value doesnt seem to work for me then ima try for the str with dps gear.

(now that ive been looking more at SBV against the Arp/Crit/Str dmg I would have low resil maken me easier to be killed a bit. grr so i guess the str and arp crit would be best for good dmg and surv.)

[Kazeyonoma]

it's all about balance, the sbv stacking is counter balanced by the diminished/capped shield slam damage, and although it's more straight burst for those few seconds, the rest of your dps time is lower for it. Also the extra block helps against other melee who you can keep in front of you, but against casters it's borderline useless.

arp/str and pve dps gear works on all things, it boosts your overall damage across the board, not just 1 ability, and works just as good on all class types (especially arp, which with testing works just as good on clothies as it does on plate wearers). Survivability I basically squeeze in whatever resil I can get from non-pve pieces that I find I don't have good options for, or aren't ideal. Basically the left side of my char pane is all pve, and most of the right side of my char-pane is pvp, i end up with 550-650 resil, decent crit, respectable HP, and enough damage to put pressure on whoever i'm on, and once I get them low enough, I either begin my stun/silence lock down, or call for a target switch (i play 3s with a hunter) and we try to burst them down, survivability then becomes all about knowing when to use your trinket, how to retreat using intervene, and smart usage of last stand/shield wall/regen.

[Baervar]

A few questions about this (thanks to destruyen for redirecting me here btw)

1. Is 2pT7 still worth it for the 10% extra SS damage bonus? Given the massive ammount of stam and str available on newest PvP gear + arp/str available on other pieces i really don't feel like trying to pug a naxx25 man for the T7 head :P

2. With the buff to Devastate are any of the T8/T9 2p pieces worth it atm?

3. Which T10 2 pieces would be most worthwhile for PvP'ing? I was initially thinking to go for chest and hands for extra armor but getting more avoidance ensures a closer-to-constant +10% damage i get from improved def stance, not to mention revenge proc'ing.

4. Which trinkets to use? So tempted to use Lavanthor's Talisman and an ArP proc one, but i'd be missing a "removes all impairing effects" on-use in that case

5. With how much SS was nerfed is gemming Str instead of Arp really wise? Well at this point i don't know at what block value diminishing returns start to kick in hard, becaue i'd just be comparing AP bonus on Devastate + dimished SBV to SS vs more pure damage from both attacks, tough choice.

6. Should i try to change my current spec to one that has deep wounds and try to get 2pT10 pve damage as well? Current build is: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#LfMZGx0RZrIzrtozibIdsGo

7. Is zerking really better than executioner on MH? I've been playing with the thought of trying blood draining as well because i'm doing 2v2's with another DPS'er.

and 8. How good are my chances to raise in raiting with another DPS class - in this case mage.

Pre-emptive thanks :P

[TomHuxley]

I'm reading this thread with interest, as I may try to do some arena this season to get the shield. I wonder if any of the pvp types on the boards would be interested in writing a mini-guide on prot pvp. The spec I think I could work out, and I get the gemming for strength (ArPen isn't gonna stack high enough to scale well, plus you don't get SBV from ArPen) but in general what about min/maxing enchants, meta, how much resilience should we bother with, etc?

Thanks for any information, and for the nuggets o' wisdom already shared above.

[Destruyen]

A few questions about this (thanks to destruyen for redirecting me here btw)

1. Is 2pT7 still worth it for the 10% extra SS damage bonus? Given the massive ammount of stam and str available on newest PvP gear + arp/str available on other pieces i really don't feel like trying to pug a naxx25 man for the T7 head :P

2. With the buff to Devastate are any of the T8/T9 2p pieces worth it atm?

3. Which T10 2 pieces would be most worthwhile for PvP'ing? I was initially thinking to go for chest and hands for extra armor but getting more avoidance ensures a closer-to-constant +10% damage i get from improved def stance, not to mention revenge proc'ing.

4. Which trinkets to use? So tempted to use Lavanthor's Talisman and an ArP proc one, but i'd be missing a "removes all impairing effects" on-use in that case

5. With how much SS was nerfed is gemming Str instead of Arp really wise? Well at this point i don't know at what block value diminishing returns start to kick in hard, becaue i'd just be comparing AP bonus on Devastate + dimished SBV to SS vs more pure damage from both attacks, tough choice.

6. Should i try to change my current spec to one that has deep wounds and try to get 2pT10 pve damage as well? Current build is: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#LfMZGx0RZrIzrtozibIdsGo

7. Is zerking really better than executioner on MH? I've been playing with the thought of trying blood draining as well because i'm doing 2v2's with another DPS'er.

and 8. How good are my chances to raise in raiting with another DPS class - in this case mage.

Pre-emptive thanks :P

1. no. using t9 dps 2pc or t10 dps 2pc is the way to go.

2. arp and massive strength on t9/t10 is a nice boost to devastate. you'll find in pve dps and pvp gear that devastate hits harder than shield slam. and that was before the devastate buff.

3. any 2 pieces between helm, chest, and shoulders out of the dps set. wearing tank gear just to proc revenge is not that great. remember that most melee wont be expertise capped so you can still get some decent revenge procs with only 10-12% dodge. however, i sit in battle stance with pvprot about 90% of the time so revenge is hardly used unless i have a rogue sitting on me or something to constantly light up revenge. my pvprot setup: http://chardev.org/?profile=336874

4. resilience pvp trinket and nobles deck are the two trinkets i use. grim toll, runestone, nes, death's choice/verdict, deathbringer's will, and the wintergrasp trinkets are all good substitutes as well.

5. strength boosts all of your damage, not just shield slam. arp just boosts it more depending on the passive level you can get it to. i run about 40% arp passive in my set gemmed mostly strength. my pvp pieces are gemmed strength due to using maces last season as arms while my pve pieces are gemmed arp due to raiding. i would run full arp with an arp proccing trinket if i could regem everything.

6. either t9 dps (shoulders and chest) or t10 (2 out of helm, shoulders, and chest) is the way to go. i would go t9 for the 6% more arp to battle stance, and if you aren't main spec dps for raids then you'd be wasting frost badges on the dps t10 pieces until you get all your tank gear. spec: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#Lhrh0...ibIdsGo:dcNMzc

7. berserking is always better than executioner except at a certain point of arp rating. arp has to be worth twice the sep of ap and the proc cannot put up over the cap iirc, which is roughly 86-90% arp passive range.

8. as long as your mage can cc and nova well it shouldnt be too hard.

[Baervar]

6. either t9 dps (shoulders and chest) or t10 (2 out of helm, shoulders, and chest) is the way to go. i would go t9 for the 6% more arp to battle stance, and if you aren't main spec dps for raids then you'd be wasting frost badges on the dps t10 pieces until you get all your tank gear. spec: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#Lhrh0...ibIdsGo:dcNMzc

The way str boosts the damage of your SS and that of your devastate is different though - str gets you block value for ss and AP for devastate. Arp increases the damage of both but it has less impact the less armor the guy you're hitting has. I was leaning more towards going with more Str gemming and using an Arp proc trinket due to 2pT10 mostly, not to mention that i want to get out as much as possible from using shield block for burst damage.

7. berserking is always better than executioner except at a certain point of arp rating. arp has to be worth twice the sep of ap and the proc cannot put up over the cap iirc, which is roughly 86-90% arp passive range.

Berserking has no effect on SS afaik, whereas executioner has on both.

8. as long as your mage can cc and nova well it shouldnt be too hard.

Sounds okay in theory, not so much in practice. Teams made up of druid/pally healer with LOTS of resilience + decent dps who's not very squishy generally get us. With druids we're pretty much forced to focus them from the start because they can't be polymorphed, they generally just run around something that makes us lose LoS and keep healing themselves up. With holy we try to reset it by forcing a bubble pop at start or we just try to focus the dps, but if he has any defensive CD he'll most likely survive to see the pally back up and healing.

What we're missing is either more burst dps - hard to achieve given the buff res got OR a mortal-strike type of ability, greater than what frost mages have - seems like a more sound solution but i have to go arms for it.



As for 2pT9 - i don't sit in battle stance much during arenas as pvp prot so i don't see why i'd use it. I will most likely go for 2p PvP and 2pT10, dunno what my 5th tier one will be. Prolly pvp arp neck as well, otherwise i'll just mix them up i think and see what i get.

Thanks for the reply

Edit: I'm actually gonna give 2pT9 + 2pT8 a chance once i get my hands on a good slow weapon actually, especially if i get some trophies for better 2pT9.

[Destruyen]

actually arp is just as good against cloth as it is against plate. gemming/gearing around one ability isn't a great idea. yeh back a few seasons ago before all the shield slam nerfs you could pop recklessness, block trinket, and shield block wearing 2pc prot t7 and one shot someone with shield slam. if you didn't kill them though you had to wait 3 minutes to try again.

no berserking doesn't effect ss, but again, gearing/chanting around one ability is not that great. you are really underestimating shockwave and devastate. ive seen plenty of 9k shockwave crits on multiple people in bg's, and devastate hits harder than ss now. just spam devastate and shield slam when its up = tons of dmg.

work on your cc better. chain poly on one and nova spam any melee will shut them down for a good 15-20 seconds. that's all the time you need to chain stun and burst with a mage to kill someone. if its not happening you need better gear (read: pve gear). sitting in defensive stance is basically nerfing your damage. you get 5% less dmg output in d stance, which can be a big deal when you are close to killing someone but they got that heal off just in time. they could've been dead if you were in battle stance.

[Naka]

So 2pT9 (DPS) is definitely better than 4pS7 for ProtPvP?

[TomHuxley]

For enchants...any reason to go for the resil-based pvp ones, or just stack DPS ones? Also, meta gem? One of the +3% to damage metas, a PVP one, or what?

Thanks!

[Destruyen]

i use the pvp helm and shoulder enchants but 10 stats to chest just for a little extra boost to resil. relentless earthsiege is the way to go since it gives more crit than the chaotic skyflare as well as a bit of dodge.