+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 7 of 7

Thread: Is this guide nuts?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    78

    Is this guide nuts?

    ...or am I?

    I recently read a guide from a well known gaming magazine that for some time now also publishes a separate wow magazine.
    Now I'm not experienced in raiding but follow some posts on tanking (especially warrior tanking) out of interest and thought I did catch on a little bit with the tanking theory, but this guide includes some statements that are contrary to what I thought and so I wanted to check if I may have missed something before I start discussing it with other people.

    So the guide is about raiding in ICC and the first advice is a general one about gear. They say one should gear for Stamina, Strength and Block.

    The first thing I would mention is, that Stamina is only part of EH (though a big one and maybe for ICC it plays the major role due to heavy magical damage?). But thats a minor thing here.

    But Strength and Block? Really? I thought these were stats that you would take along with the gear but would not especially gear for.
    Now maybe they meant: Favor Stamina, Strength and Block over pure avoidance sets, but I somehow doubt that.

    Reason is they emphasize on Block a lot in further statements and give the following explanations:

    1) Block mitigates damage and is therefore good against the heavy hitting bosses in ICC.

    Given Block does mitigate damage (or has a chance to do so), but the harder a boss hits the less effect has it in relation. Stamina and armor are surely more effective here and armor is not mentioned at all even though block has no effect against magic either.
    I would also rather improve the chance to totally avoid damage instead of improving the chance to mitigate a negligible amount of it.
    Block is mentioned again for Festergut as he hits very hard and they say something like "Everyone remembers the value of block from Anub'arak". I thought Anub was an add heavy fight and this was the reason why you would gear for block there. Again this implies to me to really gear for block and not see it as a beneficial second priority stat.

    2) Chill of the throne reduces your dodge and renders your avoidance useless.
    3) I think for Saurfang it is said, that you should gear for Parry as especially Dodge is rendered useless by CoT and avoidance is needed for Saurfang to slow down the stacking of his bloodrunes (or how his buff is called)


    I thought if you start raiding ICC you would have decent amount of dodge on your gear to at least counter CoT raid buffed and thus it would have no influence on your choice whether to use parry or dodge. So you would choose a balance between both with more weight put on dodge due to higher diminishing returns for parry. This would be especially true if you decide to use an avoidance set for Saurfang.
    Sure the damage is still high and you need enough EH to not get one shotted, but this is exactly why CoT was implemented as far as I know.

    These are the three major statements I could not agree with. I do not want to start another EH vs Avoidance discussion and I don't want to give the impression I think block is useless either. But as I have no idea about other game mechanics apart from some tanking stuff I really wonder if the information in this guide can be trusted at all (and I know at least two people that want to refer to the guide). The statements above are at least not thoroughly enough explained in my opinion. but maybe I'm completely wrong and Strength and Block really is the way to go for ICC next to Stamina, so please HALP!

    Hope this fits into this forum...

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1,754
    You generally get all the block (both value and chance) and strength naturally from gear, so while you 'gear' for it by grabbing upgrades, you don't need to gem or enchant for it, so you are right in that. You do seem to carry some common misconceptions around with you.
    The guide you are talking about seems to be put together by someone who hasn't seriously tanked.

    Quote Originally Posted by GronkerLonker View Post
    Given Block does mitigate damage (or has a chance to do so), but the harder a boss hits the less effect has it in relation. Stamina and armor are surely more effective here and armor is not mentioned at all even though block has no effect against magic either.
    The moments where a tank needs to worry about magic damage are few and far between, and armor does have a more noticable effect then block, but you should also remember that the harder a boss hits, the more important the block becomes - after all, it's against the hard hitting bosses that you want to mitigate as much damage as possible.
    I would also rather improve the chance to totally avoid damage instead of improving the chance to mitigate a negligible amount of it.
    Block damage reduction is not negligible. On my pally I block most attacks, and I block for around 2k damage. On a 2stacked festergut, my block makes the difference between being able to take two hits and being able to take three hits. Even against a boss that hits for 30k per swing, my block reduces my damage taken by 6% or so, and that's huge.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kahmal
    ...there is no true progression for a casual anymore, just hand outs.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    470
    I would say the biggest problem with the advice that the guide gives is that, for warriors at least, there simply isn't gear good enough to stack Block without giving up on major amounts of armor, stamina, strength, etc. I've only tanked up through Saurfang, but even against Marrowgar, if you go in with your Anub'arak block set on, you'll most likely be toast pretty quick.

    Paladin's have a little easier time with it, do to their 30% Block rating, but even so the problem remains that, with the exception of 2 tier 9 pieces, I don't think they've put any block stats on gear since Ulduar...

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Houston, TX USA
    Posts
    4,411
    Block isn't something to gear for. It generally provides inferior mitigation per iLvl than armor, and for a warrior, that mitigation is unpredictable. Block value won't help you if you manage to get a string of non-blocks on Festergut.

    Chill of the Throne doesn't change how you gear. Avoidance is still good, but just like before Chill of the Throne, Stamina and Armor are better.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    78
    Ah I see, I may have read the article too much from a warrior point of view. As I wrote I didn't mean to down rate Block, I'm just not deep enough into the whole equipment thing to express my concerns as clear as Eravian and Reev put it.

    Good to see my feelings about the guide were correct.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    936
    Sounds like they are ignoring the other Tanks in that writeup, if they go on about Block being important.
    Considering that Druids and DKs don't use it.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    That Place Above the USA
    Posts
    2,282
    Short answers
    1) No. Just No.
    2) No. Just No.
    3) No. Just No.

    1) Assuming a block tank (and beating back the snarling DK tanks, and to a lesser degree bears), block value has improved slightly in ICC since mobs hit more frequently but not for OMG-I-AM-GONNA-DIE-NAO amounts we saw in ToC with ToC gear. A block set is great for Anubarak 25 man ToGC. Having said that, if you devote your tanking strategy to blocking, ye be screwed and mislead.

    I say bears to a lesser degree because they have a quasi-block mechanic, savage defense.

    2) The debuff does not render dodge useless, it just takes it down a notch. Before I froth at the mouth, please review some of the posts on this site explaining why this is so. At the end of the day, as Reev stated earlier briefly, ICC does not change your gearing strategy, certain encounters do (for example, Anubarak 25 ToGC)

    3) You should not gear for parry. What you do need to do is read up on how to intelligently gear for avoidance if it is required. There is the 1.88 ratio you can investigate, but realistically, it's not nearly as effective as gearing for EH, even in something like Saurfang.

+ Reply to Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts