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Thread: old question bout tanking enchants

  1. #1
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    old question bout tanking enchants

    ok short and sweet, why out of all the tanking THREAT enchants do i not see the mighty spellpower enchant for a prot-pally? ive searched and yet havent seen anything anywhere. i know the thing about pallys not need sp anymore cuz now we get it from str, BUT that dosent change the fact that our spells in some way or another are affected by it, if it wasnt then we wouldnt be getting it from str. im just wonderign if anyoen has doen the numbers if that enchant helps our threat more than the crit/haste from goose, the proc hit from BW, the heal from draining. im asking cuz looking over our tanking abilities, almost everything causes holy dmg. some examples would be consecration ticking harder, im guessign the dmg from HS would increase and the ticks from SoV, maybe the extra dmg from SoR thats added after the block, the dmg when we use our judgements when a seal is active, etc etc. thinking on these, im wonderign why theres not much talk about it, bc looking at the other tanking enchants, none of them would effect basically all our abilities at all times in higher degree. idk im confused.
    and just to remind, its THREAT not survivablility im askign about. also, i dont care if theres flaming as long as theres some explanation behind it. ok thanks =] also putting it out there, the tank is 8%hit capped with taunt gylph, saying that cuz i knwo how much hit is very important as a threat, but if ur that close to hit rating, wouldnt it lose importantants after u get past the 8%mark due to most of our core heavy hitting abilities execept taunt are capped at 8%. ok wall of text done, flame away =]
    Last edited by Grifieth; 01-30-2010 at 09:23 PM.
    cmon u can do it! what? u scard to die in a bg?

  2. #2
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    As a list of Protection Paladin abilities and their AP/SP scaling:
    Holy Shield: 5.6% AP, 9% SP
    Consecration: 4% AP, 4% SP
    Seal of Vengeance/Corruption: 2.5% AP, 1.2% SP
    (Seal also does 33% weapon damage as a proc once it's at 5 stacks, granting even more of an edge towards AP)
    Its Judgement has: 14% AP, 22% SP
    Exorcism: 15% AP, 15% SP
    Holy Wrath: 7% AP, 7% SP
    Avenger's Shield: 7% AP, 7% SP
    Hand of Reckoning: 50% AP (I know this ability only deals damage if the mob isn't targeting you, but whatever. Putting it here for the lolz.)

    Shield of Righteousness is based solely off Block Value. No AP or SP scaling.
    Hammer of the Righteous is based off your DPS. (Scoll over your damage in the character screen, that's the DPS. Not the base weapon DPS)

    With that out of the way, this is why the spell power enchant is complete garbage for a Protection Paladin; It's a very meager portion of your actual damage.
    Yes, most of your damage is considered "Holy", but take a look where I'm coming from in saying that. I'll use the 65 AP enchant versus 63 SP for simplicity.

    With 65 AP you would get (very slightly) more DPS from EVERY ability (excluding SoR due to pure BV for that one) except Holy Shield and your Judgement. You also get an increase to your Hammer of the Righteous ability due to it increasing your DPS slightly.
    Assuming the normal 6969 rotation, Hammer of the Righteous is one of your dominate abilities so naturally anything that buffs that is fantastic. Keep in mind the majority of your spells gain equally from AP and SP.
    Take a look at the damage a Paladin will do in a raid, keeping in mind we're throwing Shield out, and that Holy Shield and Judgements are the only abilities that will get more benefit from 63 SP than 65 AP.
    Looking at a recent raid with a guild Paladin, I'm seeing that Hammer > Consecration / Melee > Seal DoT / Seal Proc > Judgement / Holy Shield (The "> Ability / Ability >" denotes those two were roughly the same amount of damage)
    Unsurprisingly enough, both the abilities that gain more benefit from spell power are at the bottom of the chain.

    Now that's solely looking at the enchants at face value. Take a look at your stats; I'll use a Pally from my guild because I have it on hand - He has 3356 AP and 940 SP unbuffed. Simply from that, he's gaining significantly more damage from his AP, and raid buffs only magnify that as you can quite easily get 5000-6000 AP buffed.

    Now getting back on topic... I don't have any maths behind the threat of something such as Mongoose or those type of enchants, but I'm pretty sure I've explained well enough why Spell Power is never discussed as an option.
    But it does raise the question why you would bother with a pure threat enchant (like 65 AP), when you can get some threat + survivability (like with Mongoose). Granted I know neither threat or survivability is *too* much of an issue, so I always go based off how the enchant looks and Mongoose TOTALLY WINS that department.
    Last edited by tuffmuffin; 01-31-2010 at 01:45 AM.
    "Upon an order we plead, with the lure of a song, a sacred song, to the moon and the stars. An illusionary light is here placed."

  3. #3
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    thanks for responding, and i ahve to ask a question and dotn take this the wrong way but i have a few questions about the response. First question i have is im confused how ap applys to sertain of our abilities that dosent say anythign about weapon dmg/dps/etc that just say holy dmg like consecrate/holy wrath/hammer of wrath/avengers shield/hand of reckoning/holy shield/unleashing a seal thru judgement. the reason im asking is i always saw an increase in its dmg whenever i upgraded gear becuase i thought it was getting more str than i currently had and the talent 60% converted to sp. now i totally agree with ya on the SoR and the HoR. im just confused how ap increases our holy dmg in our abilities and idk. i see where ti says straight out that it based on our block value or dps, but if the other spells are increased by ap <not str that is then converted to sp> why do they not also put in based off of ap/etc instead of them saying just holy dmg where as the other abilities straight out say. and plz plz dont think im flaming ya, im just a dumb pally and want to know the reason behind the ap thing =]
    cmon u can do it! what? u scard to die in a bg?

  4. #4
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    Yeah I understand your question. Easiest answer is take a look at a spell on WoWhead since I don't have a Paladin myself so my knowledge of the class is quite limited.
    This is Consecration: http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=48819

    "Consecrates the land beneath the Paladin, doing [8 * (113 + 0.04 * SPH + 0.04 * AP)] Holy damage over 8 sec to enemies who enter the area."
    Basically it deals 113 + 4% of your Spell Power Holy (SPH) + 4% of your Attack Power (AP) every second for 8 seconds.
    Each of those abilities share that same design (the only I really had to dig for was Holy Shield since it doesn't have it defined like that). [Base damage + x% SPH + y% AP] = Tooltip damage

    Looks like Hammer of Wrath is 15% AP, 15% SP. Forgot about that ability in the first post.
    Last edited by tuffmuffin; 01-31-2010 at 09:23 PM.
    "Upon an order we plead, with the lure of a song, a sacred song, to the moon and the stars. An illusionary light is here placed."

  5. #5
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    ty soo much, i never realized that ap was included in spells, i always thought it was like a caster where they benefited from sp only. again tyvm u have totally answered my question.
    cmon u can do it! what? u scard to die in a bg?

  6. #6
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    Also, check out this thread from Theckhd at maintankadin. It goes through all of the DPS related stats and how they rank for prot paladins. SP is next to last (better than ArPen, but worst than Haste).

    http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...wtopic#p521995

    As an additional note, the 20 str weapon enchant from TBC days is better threat than the 65 AP enchant.
    Here is a ranking of weapon enchants:

    http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...wtopic#p529014

  7. #7
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    The only thing some people get confused about

    Prot paladins gain spell power from STRENGTH
    Ret paladins gain spell power from AP, but 1 STR=2AP.

    A strength buff will affect both paladins equally, whereas a ret pally will increase in spell power from an AP boost whereas the prot pally will not (but the prot pally gets increased block value by way of 2 STR = 1 Block Value)

    The str->Spell power is the reason why TBC Potency (20 strength) probably beats out 65 AP.
    1 STR + 15% extra strength from Divine Strength + 10% extra strength from kings/sanctuary + 60% of Str as Spell Power from Touched by the Light > 65 AP

  8. #8
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    It actually beat the 65 AP enchant back when we had stam->spell power instead. STR is just that awesome. Part of it has to do with ShoR.
    Last edited by jere; 02-01-2010 at 07:57 PM.

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