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Thread: Mitigating vs. Avoiding Physical Damage

  1. #1
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    Mitigating vs. Avoiding Physical Damage

    With the new content being released as blizzard sees fit (as in new bosses), we all know that there are new tanking trinkets out there. Now, I'm not a fan of stam stacking (read: I don't want to put two stam trinkets on both slots because I already have a stupid amount of health) so I generally use 1 stam trinket alongside a dodge trinket (notably Eitrigg's Oath). Yet, with new armor trinkets out for us, such as Unidentifiable Organ and to a lesser extent, Glyph of Indomitability , I'm in a bit of a dilemma.

    Dodge (or avoidance to include parry and miss) negates all physical damage when you avoid whereas armor (with the help of block) mitigates said physical damage throughout the fight.

    Which would/do you use and why?

  2. #2
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    Please use the search function, this dead horse has been beaten so hard I'd be surprised if there was any flesh left on the bone.

    There will never be an answer to this question / debate beyond "GEAR FOR THE ENCOUNTER". Now what exactly does that mean?

    It means you break down the bosses abilities, decide what is likely to kill you, and gear for that. If it's magic damage like Sarth 3D, Stamina usually wins out. If it's a ton of physical damage ala patchwork then armor is probably the winner once you reach enough stam that a botched heal wont get you killed, but avoidance may be do-able. In fights where your your EH threshold is really low, and the majority of damage is physical and avoidance set (with enough life) is probably worth trying. If it's somewhere in the middle, well you gear somewhere in the middle. The key is to decide what is likely to kill you and gear so that event doesn't kill you.

    The reason many people simply stack stamina is Stam is always there, it always works. It's not a chance, it's also the current trend due to boss design in WotLK.

    Now we're (being tankspot regulars) are freaking sick of the EH vs Avoidance debate (which is essentially what your question boils down too), it's raged for years; as the encounters change the trends change. If you want to read more about I suggest again the search box. There are tons of pros and cons for each side, more then what will get re-hashed here.

    If you want just my personal opinion then here it is: Get bonus armor where you can, gem and enchant for stamina, and don't wear eitriggs oath, it's about the worst trinket in the game. Wear stamina trinkets, or an armor and a stam trinket. Don't ever prioritize avoidance; in wotlk it's very easy to get "enough" avoidance even without prioritizing it.

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  3. #3
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    If you want to compare on a purely grand average basis?

    If we forget the health for a second on the Unidentifiable Organ (which is silly because it will be a major component, but that's not really what you're asking about) 1890 armor is roughly 1.2% physical damage reduction.

    Now, there aren't currently any avoidance trinkets available in the game at the same ilvl, but there is one from ToGC10 (ilvl 245) that we can compare at 126 dodge rating passive equipped. 126 dodge rating will be roughly 1.8% total avoidance.

    If you're taking things in the grand average, the avoidance will reduce your damage taken by more. However, most people will favor the armor trinket because it is guaranteed to help on every swing.

    In general, though, if you're choosing between the Unidentifiable Organ and most any other trinket, at the moment I'll take the Organ. Why? ~1900 armor plus 240 Stam through most of the fight? That is a huge total value to have from a trinket.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satorri View Post
    Why? ~1900 armor plus 240 Stam through most of the fight? That is a huge total value to have from a trinket.
    I have the organ, it doesn't proc that often.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proletaria View Post
    I have the organ, it doesn't proc that often.
    Turn your back to the boss for the first few hits. That will help!



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  6. #6
    It's sad that the game is currently designed so that stam is the best to gem/chant no questions asked .... anyone not doing ANY theorycrafting on tank can just get high iLevel gear and socket it without using their brain.

  7. #7
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    Welcome to WotLK.

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  8. #8
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    Actually welcome to TBC/WotLK.

    To be fair though, it would be quite difficult to design the game differently while still using the tank/healer/dps role setup. In order to keep the content challenging, mobs have to hit hard, which usually leads to tanks preferring stamina/EH on their gear.

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    Actually TBC was all about 20 dodge reds

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    Can we just lock this thread now, nip the bud, we all know that is what this is going to end in.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgewalker View Post
    Actually TBC was all about 20 dodge reds
    I don't know why you would say that since it's not true. There was a point in TBC where avoidance gems were really good because avoidance levels were too high, but stamina stacking was still preferred for most of the tiers during this expansion. It is quite normal for this kind of game design.

    Getting ahold of a 20 dodge gem during TBC would have been quite a feat though.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggathon View Post
    Can we just lock this thread now, nip the bud, we all know that is what this is going to end in.
    agreed. Like I said, dead horse. Use the search function if you want to learn about eh vs. avoidance imho. Nothing has changed in the past 6 months to warrant having this conversation again. Actually I doubt this is a worthwhile discussion to have pre-cataclysm unless it's examining the individual usefulness of such a setup for individual bosses.

    And these EH vs. avoidance threads usually just end up being a snipe fest.

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by vaen View Post
    It's sad that the game is currently designed so that stam is the best to gem/chant no questions asked .... anyone not doing ANY theorycrafting on tank can just get high iLevel gear and socket it without using their brain.
    /facepalm

    You *can* and you can tank, that doesn't make you good or the most effective. You could socket for spirit and not kill your ability to tank...
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dots View Post
    I don't know why you would say that since it's not true. There was a point in TBC where avoidance gems were really good because avoidance levels were too high, but stamina stacking was still preferred for most of the tiers during this expansion. It is quite normal for this kind of game design.

    Getting ahold of a 20 dodge gem during TBC would have been quite a feat though.
    Well end game anyways it was all about the Spinel. And yea... fair enough. I did just ignore a huge chunk of content.

    Also Satorri, Putricide's trinket isn't as great as it sounds. It falls off a fair amount of time on bosses where it would be the most effective :\ It's amazing in a lot of scenarios though, don't get me wrong.

  15. #15
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    Also this thread is going to be a waste of time quick, sorry OP in advance when it's locked.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgewalker View Post
    Also Satorri, Putricide's trinket isn't as great as it sounds. It falls off a fair amount of time on bosses where it would be the most effective :\ It's amazing in a lot of scenarios though, don't get me wrong.
    I kind of expected as much, but I figured it could still be worthwhile for when you really need the health. =) I hope anyway.
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  17. #17
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    yeah it makes me sad to see putricide's stam buff fall off as often as it does, even on non-tankswap fights, simply 10 second duration isn't long enough on a 60% proc, it either needs to be 100% proc, or a 20 second duration for it to actually stay on. even on fights like festergut, it falls off WHILE i'm tanking him because I either avoid a few attacks within 10 seconds, or he's turning to cast vile on someone and not hitting me, or he's inhaling and it falls off =( I have seen it reach 10 stacks though in ToGc =P

    Dead horse closed.

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