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Thread: The Better Tank, Paladin or a Warrior or maybe a Druid ? XD

  1. #1
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    The Better Tank, Paladin or a Warrior or maybe a Druid ? XD

    Hey guys, i just have a question that needs some explaining. for the best tank what class would you choose.

    From my knowledge a pally is the best AoE holder b/c of their famous AoE consecration. With their threat multiplier (+80%) it is almost impossible for a DPS or healer to pull the adds off of you.

    As for Warriors i do not no to much about how they work and how they hold the threat. In my experiances warriors can take only about 5-7 mobs at a time, while the pally can hold many more than that.

    Now Druids in my experience are great for boss battles as their high armor and buffs. But for pulling multiple adds they lack in a pure AoE move.

    Now these are my opinions and personal experiences, i just want to know the best class for a tank and how to use him effectively.

    Thanks to anyone who can help me.

    Gears.

  2. #2
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    Every class is good, it boils down to play style.

    Druids have massive EH but slightly lower avoidance levels. they have their own "block" mechanic in the form of savage defense, and have barkskin and berserk. Their primary AoE tanking tool is swipe which was buffed to be a 360 degree attack around the bear and is spammable.

    Paladins have very good HP scaling, good avoidance levels, have a guaranteed block mechanic, have very reactive tanking in that a lot of damage is generated from being hit (holy shield) or just dropping a consecrate, which is part of why their aoe tanking abilities are considered paramount. Likewise they have divine shield, and Ardent Defender as cooldowns. I'm not sure how much Lay on Hands comes into play as a tanking cd, but I suppose it might be used as such?

    DKs have decent HP, high avoidance levels, but no block mechanic. They have a very unique style of play in that they have runes, and then runic power (think energy that becomes rage). They've seen a lot of changes being the new class and many people will tell you they're OP, or they suck, or what not, but the truth is, in the hands of an experienced tank, they'll do well in just about every situation (except many many small attacks rapidly in succession, something block mechanics excel in, and something blizz has said they'd like to address for DKs). All 3 talent trees become viable tanking specs, which allows lots of different flavors of tanking within the class itself, and each spec has it's own pros and cons, and with cooldowns all their own.

    Warriors are your middle ground, they don't have the highest HP scaling, but they have a ranged slot and the highest base HP to help balance out the HP differences. They have very good avoidance levels (basically the same as paladins) and have spikier block mechanics in the form of shield block (100% block rate and block value for a while, every 40 seconds). Warriors are the kings of mobility with warbringer, and are often enjoyed by players because of the activeness in warrior tanking (there's always a million buttons to be pressed). They may not be the best in aoe tanking, but they are by no means "gimp" at it, it just takes a little more effort, and they have the best burst threat abilities of the 4 classes (thunderclap + shockwave). They have SOME reactive tanking abilities in the form of damage shield, and have what many consider the "baseline" tanking cooldowns many of the other tanks have been balanced to have: shield wall and last stand.

    The best class for a tank, is the class YOU enjoy the most, and are willing to put in the effort and time to learn how to play, to gear up, and to stick by even when the QQ is overwhelming, or when the naysayers are knocking on your door. Every class is viable, and although there are variances in their ability to do various things such as AoE tanking, survivability, threat, dps, etc, at the end of the day, the choice boils down to you. How to use each tank effectively requires you to pick one, play it, and read the various guides we have all over this website.



    I'd like to take a quick note to state that this seems like a legitimate question, and devolving this thread into an x class vs y class v z class ZOMG OP, QQ thread will probably quickly lead to the closure of the thread as well as stricter than normal infractions being doled out. Input when constructive is good, input when destructive is not. Keep that in mind before you post.

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  3. #3
    Now Druids in my experience are great for boss battles as their high armor and buffs. But for pulling multiple adds they lack in a pure AoE move.
    Druids have the only mobile, no-cooldown 360-degree AE damaging threat attack in the game. If that doesn't translate into a "pure AoE move" for "pulling multiple adds", I don't know what does!

    To address your original question, there's no all-around "best tank". So just throw that one out the window. I will say that Paladins Ardent Defender is a pretty darn handy ability though. While I'd take a druid for pretty much any fight due to their absurd EH pools, the potential of the paladin to guarantee a glossing over of otherwise raid-wiping mistakes every 2 minutes is pretty awesome.

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    Kazeyonoma, that was a very nice answer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beeboob View Post
    Kazeyonoma, that was a very nice answer.

    ^^ this.

    To add:

    Paladins are very similar to warriors in terms of avoidance, hp, cds etc. The difference is warriors have great mobility with dodge etc; paladins get support abilitys like Hand of Sac, Hand of Protection, Divine Sac/Divine Guardian, Hand of Salv, Cleanse, Lay on Hands.

    So really a warrior is a mans tank, very offensive and in your face. Paladins are a ex-healers tank, supporting the raid and mitigating raid dmg as much as possilbe.

    A GOOD paladin will cleanse, salv, bop, loh a raider, DG during intense raid dmg moments. Other tanks will never look for those things.


    imo: based on the fight youll want a paladin or warrior for 90% of progression/hard mode pulls. But if your a 10m or normal mode guild, a tank is a tank is a tank, go with the best player in the best gear.

    not to be biased, but tbh with cds factored in a paladin would probly edge the best tank/ Flavor of the patch/month slot... for now.

    however, if i were to pick a tank with gear being all BiS for a heroic farm group, id go with a druid: threat wont be an issue, they can out dps a pally on trash and bosses and healing in heroics is lol anyway. pally would be a very close second (first if dps was higher)


    But for pulling multiple adds they lack in a pure AoE move.
    swipe...


    on that note, and im ranting now. i get bored as shit on my alt druid tanking. not to say that pallys arent a 1 button tank when tanking, but at least theres about 5 other things i can do to "be pro" and help out. on my druid its either:
    aoe? roar and swipe
    single target? FF, mangle, lacerate, maul

    theres no choices, no options nothing xtra other then pop trinkets/barskin/regen. and every tank has cds to use so...

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    That is true, I find tanking with a druid can be boring at times,.t

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megatwan View Post
    imo: based on the fight youll want a paladin or warrior for 90% of progression/hard mode pulls. But if your a 10m or normal mode guild, a tank is a tank is a tank, go with the best player in the best gear.

    not to be biased, but tbh with cds factored in a paladin would probly edge the best tank/ Flavor of the patch/month slot... for now.
    Pallys are great but i wouldnt say you would want a warrior for 90% of prog fights. If you compare druids to warriors druids come up bigger in almost all areas.

    10k or so more hp, more armor, equal avoidance, druids block more dmg and block more often and their cds are about equal but the druids are on a shorter cd making them more effective for boss abilitys instead of a OS button

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    good lord, i saw this subject and clicked out of curiosity thinking "oh not this shit again" and "please tell me i never posted here...


    only to see my rant and a quote on top of that lol...


    but i would respond:

    druids look good at quick glance. if you compare them in equal gear to a pally/war (which arent too far off other then block rating):
    -they have less or the same "block" value ...barely more depending on gems etc. maybe
    -dunno about block rating but id imagine being based on crit its far less then a pally and on par with a warrior, if not crit blocks make up for a lower chance
    -less avoidance, dodge in icc lolz
    -less armor

    Shorter CDs = less effective... i dunno how this is a bonus since in most cases amount > frequency in regards to CDs


    i mean from a balance perspective, do you really think 1 class would have 10k more hp AND eqaul or greater mitigation and avoidance?


    ugh i feel dirty for typing all that
    Last edited by Megatwan; 03-03-2010 at 09:51 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megatwan View Post
    but i would respond:

    druids look good at quick glance. if you compare them in equal gear to a pally/war:
    -they have less or the same "block" ...barely more depending on gems etc.
    -dunno about block rating but id imagine its based on crit and less then that of a war/pallys 50%+
    -less avoidance, dodge in icc lolz
    -less armor
    druids block is only slighty more but its still more, and it is up for every swing on a single target

    warriors also have the 20% dodge nerf in icc, it would only hurt the druid more if the warrior has less than 20% dodge

    with the armor buffs to icc gear druids and warriors armor are about equal

    Shorter CDs = less effective... i dunno how this is a bonus since in most cases amout > frequency in regards to CDs
    its situational depending on which boss, i personally prefer the shorter cds since theres not alot of OS moments to deal with in icc


    i mean from a balance perspective, do you really think 1 class would have 10k more hp AND eqaul or greater mitigation and avoidance?
    because wow is always 100% balanced and fair

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazeyonoma View Post
    Every class is good, it boils down to play style.

    I'd like to take a quick note to state that this seems like a legitimate question, and devolving this thread into an x class vs y class v z class ZOMG OP, QQ thread will probably quickly lead to the closure of the thread as well as stricter than normal infractions being doled out. Input when constructive is good, input when destructive is not. Keep that in mind before you post.
    I'll second that, and an excellent post. Your preferred playstyle should be the primary factor in your decision. I would also like to add that if you really get into tanking, you're going to be in it for the long haul. It's not uncommon for raid tanks to hold the position for a long time (I think, not too much experience in this area, but it certainaly looks that way), meaning personal preferrences are even more paramount. You don't want to be playing a class you hate (to play) for several months or even years because it's "the best".


    My own experiences have been tanking on both a warrior and a death knight at level 80, as well as a pally tank upto level 55.

    Warriors are, by a longshot, my preferred class. The amount of activity and fun little skills (utility) you have access to make it one of the most fun classes in all of WoW. "A tool for every situation" would be a good description. Halls of Reflection is actually a very fun instance for me, it's a great opportunity to break out every thing in the book (and maybe make up a few things on the spot) and do some fancy footwork. It's also enjoyably challenging to AoE tank with them, it's never too easy and you have to watch everything around you. It can get a bit frustrating at times, but you eventually learn to take it all in stride. Many die-hard warriors don't care if their class isn't the best, they're good at what they do and love doing it.

    Death knights are the second class I've tanked with, and they're not too shabby. Maybe not doing too well at the moment, but certainly in a workable state. The main thing you have to learn about tanking with the class would be resource management, which probably no other class ever has to worry about to the same extent. Runic power is usually not the problem, though you have to know when to hold onto some of it for a cooldown or interrupt. Runes are the main thing I'd say, specifically runes tied to your AoEs. Picking up adds on a death knight requires you to be ready for them. You can "blackout" your runes, and Empower Rune Weapon is usable only so often. When you have to pick up something on the fly, hope that you have the runes necessary to pick it up. This in part is why I don't enjoy tanking HoR on my death knight, as the instance is one which seems designed to make things go horribly wrong. DKs don't seem to be able to handle those kinds of situations very well, and coupled with the fact they need to use their CDs far more often.... well, things go wrong very quickly and horribly. And it can feel like there's nothing you can do about it. Part of the issue may be the fact I'm not entirely familiar with the class, but that's just being perfectly honest. They are fun (not as fun as warrior tanks though), but there are some unique challenges to the class which can really throw you off.

    Paladins are probably the most effective tank in the game right now. This is always subject to change, patches and all that. But I do have one main issue with the class, and it's that they aren't very active. At all. Perhaps some people enjoy the relaxed pace, but not me. Maybe I'm too used to how active warriors are, but once again I'm just being honest. The early levels are some of the worst, as all you literally have is Consecration and Judgement. Things do get better as you level up, a few new moves here and there, but they're still not something I'd really call "fun". Most of their utility seems to be more attached to healer duties, which is probably both good and bad. There is little doubt they hold up very well as tanks, it's just..... dull.


    So once again, I'd suggest you pick the tank class you like playing moreso than anything else.
    For me, it's the warrior. And certainly not the paladin.
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  11. #11
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    @owlcapwn


    fair enough, i mean short vs long is situational and the whole more then this and that i guess comes down to gear most of the time because i dont think either one of us is about to start linking charts and wowhead item sets.

    i know as a pally i have more block then the my feral druid companion and totaly avoidance (your forgetting about parry with the -20% dodge thing. to your credit/defense you did say warriors in your OP.


    in terms of balance, yes classes at their core are pretty well balanced and tweaking isnt that far off this late in an expansion... no its not 100% but lets be serious amirite?

    if you have a scale with HP-Avoidance-Mitigation-CDs, your not gonna have 1 class stacked with all of them over another. except maybe paladins lawl jkjk



    also, roht is pretty spot on. warriors are agressive tanks ala charge and interupts. pallys are very reactive with most of the proactiveness the class has coming from raid support abils. i.e. Hands, Buffs, cleanse, LoH, DS/DG.

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    I find warriors have to work more for their threat but have a lot more tricks up their sleeve. Which makes them most enjoyable for me. But I also find tanking with them is quite easy to f' up in subtle, unnoticable ways.

    In 5mans the differences between classes really show since you get much more opportunity to use all skills you have at your disposal. In raids you will find that all your abilities but the most basic ones are completely meaningless.

    Since the situations are much more diverse in the 5mans and the play styles of the tanks are equally diverse in 5mans you will never find the best overall tanking class for those. Boss fights are more tuned for the diversity of tanking classes. And most differences can be evened out by gear/skill/talent choices.

    They all get the job done. With no exception.

    As a player you should pick whatever you choose based on which mechanics you like best. As a raid leader you will more often than not find that you have no choice at all since you have to work with what is available to you. As a healer you will have to work with who you are assigned to. As DPS you will find you have no responsibility at all(yes, I have completely lost any respect I should have had for pure DPS).

    So overall I don't think that's a question worth answering since the answer won't benefit anyone at all.
    This is not a flame but my honest opinion.

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    I play a raiding warrior & dk tank and i regularly team up with really good bear and paladin.

    Warrior: the mobility is amazing. Truely amazing. I always end up wishing i was on my warrior any time i play any other class, tank or other role. The playstyle is very active as i have to work more to accomplish my role. While the active part is great in that it makes the game interesting, i usually end up drained after a night of raiding. Still, the warrior is my main toon.

    DK: The unique rune/runic power combo makes the class very interesting. Tanking with a huge 2hander also feels nice. After playing a warrior tank, the initial threat building seems a bit clunky but overall threat levels are just fine. The gameplay is quite nice, balancing a good amount of activity and enough spare time to mind your surroundings & use the unique tools available. The part i like best about dk tanking is its ability to function at range. Icy chaining blood beasts, kiting oozes, deathgripping loose mobs without messing up the positioning, etc. Very fun style, less tiring. I routinely prefer to tank any heroics in my dk instead of my warrior as it's less demanding. Raidingwise, it's also fun but not as fun as my warrior. I've contemplated mainswitching to this a few times but ended up preferring my warrior every time.

    Bear: (This is from observation naturally). MASSIVE aoe aggro. really good. Sometimes lacking in burst initial threat but otherwise good. Boring gameplay but AMAZING survivability, good raid dps. Versatile offspec options.

    Paladin: (Again observation). Really good all around tank. Most essential tanking emergencies are on automatic which means the tank can concentrate on other stuff, like dispelling, aoe damage prevention etc. Versatile offspec options.

    As i said i already have 2 tank classes with a pala coming up (already 80, working on gear) and i'll be leveling a bear next.
    If you want a really concentrated, work-your-ass-off-and-be-imba tank, i'd say warrior. If you prefer a more relaxed atmosphere, i'd suggest DK or Bear. Paladin if you're good at multitasking (ie tank on one side, watch & cleanse, bless freedom etc, on the other side)

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    Quote Originally Posted by gearsofhalo View Post
    Hey guys, i just have a question that needs some explaining. for the best tank what class would you choose.

    From my knowledge a pally is the best AoE holder b/c of their famous AoE consecration. With their threat multiplier (+80%) it is almost impossible for a DPS or healer to pull the adds off of you.
    my guild pally tank use to think it was impossible for anyone to aggro off him until i came along with my arms warrior and 100% arp
    he swore blind i must have been taunting or something :P

  15. #15
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    The basic differences and advantages/disadvantages have been stated very clearly already.

    However dual spec hasn't been taken into consideration much. I don't know of any tank on my server that isn't dual spec with a non-tanking spec as a spec that they somewhat raid as regularly. I would think a pally/druid would have an edge here with the option to heal or dps as their other spec provided they had the gear. I'm the main tank for my guild and even on progression fights we'll try me swapping over to fury or having the pally tank drop to heals or whatever just to try different options. Might be something to consider.
    Former healbot now a Disgruntled protection warrior.

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    this is a question where you will get a different answer with each person you ask.

    As a warrior tank, i certainly know my weaknesses and strengths... i realize that the grass is always greener but that doesnt mean its necessarily better...

    when compared to our paladin and dk tanks in our ICC25 raids, i take the least amount of damage, within the same amount of time. I can generate considerably more threat than the paladin and if the dk was better geared, he would probably pass me.

    IMO i dont feel that AoE trash tanking should be a measure of whether one class is better than another... If i were strictly doing heroics, those aoe multi-mob threat abilities would make more difference, but when it comes to raid boss tanking, AoE abilities are not even on my list of importance.

    I am currently lvling a paladin, for tanking. I also plan to lvl a druid and DK so i can determine, for myself, which is the best tanking class... for ME.

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    I tank DK and Pally and both do their jobs respectably. I find the Pally is kind of like easy mode tanking and a heck of a lot of fun (Avenger's Shield = Captain America is one of the most fun talents I've run across), the DK requires more thought and timing of cool downs. Also, Blizz has taken some time to try to balance out the DK's (understandable with a new class); at first DK's were OP, then nerfed hard and are now being slowly buffed and I think most people focus on DK tanking during the hard nerf period and hold that against them. What I find is that in Blood tank spec, and used correctly, the DK can last as long as, if not longer then other tanks (healer, I don't need no stink'in healer); in Frost tank spec there's not a better AoE tank (my pally is good, but the DK in Frost is unbeatable for grabbing and holding multi mobs).

  18. #18
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    Since this is in the 5 man forums I'm assuming all your going to do is heroic 5 man tank. It's really hard to say without going into extreme detail of each one's strengths and weaknesses, but for 5 mans I would choose either a Paladin or Warrior. Paladins are easier to learn, have superb aoe threat and lots of utility. Warriors are probably the hardest to learn, but once mastered they are amazing and also have a lot of tools and tricks to use. I mostly tank on my Paladin and there are many times when I envy Warriors and their ability to zoom around with Charge, Intercept and Inervene.

    Having tanked on all 4 classes here are the reasons why I wouldn't choose a DK or Druid. DK tanks are fairly easy to learn but also very easy to mess up if not played correctly. With Runes being a limited resource system it can be pretty unforgiving if you don't use them wisely. They also lack a block mechanic which makes them seem harder to heal, probably because they're taking more damage. Druids are the 2nd easiest to learn but their rotation is very simple and can become boring. AoE threat consists of a 1 button spam, which holds threat well but at a more steady pace. Also, since you share gear with Rogues, kitty druids and/or greedy Balance/Resto druids it can be frustrating at times trying to gear up if you're always being paired with them in heroics.

    This is all personal opinion of course from experience, but the choice is up to you and what you want to get out of tanking. There isn't going to be an easy choice without spending some time looking into the mechanics of all the classes and trying to decide what you like the most. Protonly made a really good point. Something else to consider is what would you like to do in the event that you decide tanking isn't for you or are asked to fill another role? It's very likely this may happen so sometimes hybrid classes like the Paladin or Druid would give the most alternative choices.
    Last edited by bling581; 03-31-2010 at 11:25 AM.

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    the only question is, did you forget death'n decay, it also adds to aoe trash pulls, and does very well in ICC..... if you know how to play a blood dk tank very well. that and have the gear and expertise to prove it. but on the other hand, if you still are having a hard time with argo, then look at your rotation, and see what you can do to make it better.
    IE- dnd first, then frost strike, always works for me, and always will.
    good luck on finding a good tank, plenty of options to choose from, but make a choice you really think is best for you
    only a few can keep up with me, just hope you'r one of them

  20. #20
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    Those following my exploits to see how many tanks I can piss off this week on my DK and fury dps know there is no good tank for 5 man heroics ATM when faced with a DK or fury who knows what they are doing ... your only hope is taunt :-) On the plus side I guarantee your pain will only be in 8-10 second increments.
    ** Remember Warcraft players fail in directions you never thought possible.

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