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Thread: frustrated bear

  1. #1
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    frustrated bear

    http://http://wow-heroes.com/index.p...ame=stearbornehey all, was hoping for some advice on my build and gear/gem selection. losing aggro and health at an alarming rate. im not raiding regularly atm, and badges are few.

  2. #2
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    Your link seems to be broke, make sure you only have one "http://" in there...my browser also had it showing "http://.com" which is strange.

    [Edit] You appear to be in balance gear, cannot help you with bear advice until I see your bear gear!
    Last edited by Güth; 01-26-2010 at 10:57 AM.

  3. #3
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    just from looking @ the url, he's stearborne on nesingwary.

    A better link here

    My priority would be to replace the rings, though I'm sure others can offer better advice.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darksend View Post
    30 stams in every blue and yellow no exceptions (unless somehow my gear had 0 red sockets and I needed a red for the meta) and agi/stam in reds that give an agi or stam bonus and do not require a yellow gem.
    Just pulled that from a previous thread on bear gems, and it's solid advice. I'd change your dodge trinket to stamina as you already have the Greatness trinket covering avoidance.

    Also, I'd change some of your enchants if you plan on tanking. Boots should be some form of stamina, either Tuskarr's or +22 stam..I think even agi to boots would be better than Icewalker from a tanking perspective. Shoulders should be the stamina pvp enchant and not the AP/crit one.

    A question I have is how often do you use Barkskin? (and other survival cooldowns) if your healers are saying you're hard to heal that might be a big problem. Also, why did you skip the 4% dodge talent? Feral Swiftness will net you more avoidance than all that agility gemming and avoidance trinketing, allowing you to focus more on health.

    I'd suggest removing the two points in King of the Jungle for the 4% dodge.
    Last edited by Güth; 01-26-2010 at 11:59 AM. Reason: Grammar & talent advice.

  5. #5
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    Looking at the spec first (since it raises the glass ceiling in terms of everything).

    http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc...00000000000000

    I'd suggest switching to this. You won't really miss the extra point in Furor. Worst case scenario, your raid/heroic group waits an additional GCD or few to get the 10 rage. King of the Jungle would be great if we had a minor glyph similar to Glyph of Bloodrage/Blood Tap, but the points are better spent elsewhere because the armor drop hurts. Feral Swiftness is the first place to put the extra three points, gaining 4% free dodge. While I'm rather fond of Improved Mangle, I find that my rotation ends up feeling tighter without it and that especially early into a fight, you've got other things to worry about (positioning, full stack of Lacerate, Demoralizing Roar, etc). A full 3/3 Infected Wounds may not always be required since other tanks will have it (especially Death Knights/Warriors), but I find it is better not to rely on such. After that, you've got two points left. I prefer to put them into Improved Leader of the Pack because there's nothing else like it, and I like to think that it helps out a little bit in helping the healers (especially with our high health pools).

    --

    For gear, a lot of my recommendations are easy-to-obtain. I'm talking mostly about easy raids (Onyxia), Emblem of Triumph gear, and Heroic 5-Man Drops.

    Gloves -- First bit of my advice in the category would be to replace your +20 agility enchant with the 2% Threat (TBC) or 2% Threat + 10 Parry (mats may be cheaper due to availability). Once you find your threat getting plenty beefy, you can switch back to +20 agility, +18 stamina, or +240 armor. +240 armor isn't the best for bear, but is among the best for tanks in general. +18 Stamina will likely become best once you start hitting hard DR returns on Dodge.

    Trinkets -- As Guth stated, Stamina trinkets are really the way to go. The Black Heart from normal Trial of the Champions is excellent, and rather easy to obtain with the help of some guildies (bring an enchanter if no one needs the gear, free crystals for the gbank). The Corroded Skeleton Key is great, but depending on your gear when you have enough Frost Emblems, another piece of gear might prove a better upgrade (the Tanking relic should be first, no questions asked). Some easy-to-obtain non-stamina trinkets would be Ick's Rotting Thumb (+113 Dodge Rating + Battlemaster's Effect) and the Glyph of Indomitability (1792 armor + 512 dodge rating use).

    Rings - Clutch of Fortification is excellent, and the Dexterous Brightstone Ring is good (though not ideal). The tanking rings from Onyxia offer stamina and armor, both great stats for a tank. If you feel like choosing a tank ring from Ashen Verdict rep runs, those are also great choices (and again, easy-to-obtain).

    Weapon and Relic - Rawr! Origin of Nightmares is great, but there are other options with much more FAP. Reinforced Thunderstrike from Ony10/25 is good, Orca-Hunter's Harpoon from Heroic Halls of Reflection is also great. Marrowstrike, while not as great in terms of tanking stats, will definitely increase your threat output. Also, the tanking relic from Frost Emblems is cheap and amazing, get it!

    Gemming - If you're still having trouble with threat, post the priority rotation you use while tanking. If you're still having troubles (on single-target specifically), switch some of your pure stamina gems from your yellow slots to Haste/Stamina (Forceful Eye of Zul) since Maul is easily our highest threat output for single target. Otherwise, Guth's advice is best concerning red and blue slots.

    --

    Jesus, my medication is doing a number on me ><

  6. #6
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  7. #7
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    First off, you appear to try and increase your dodge. The simple answer is: Don't. Go with stamina instead of dodge. Sorting through some of the comments here to help pick out good advice:

    Quote Originally Posted by Güth View Post
    Just pulled that from a previous thread on bear gems, and it's solid advice. I'd change your dodge trinket to stamina as you already have the Greatness trinket covering avoidance.
    Stamina trinkets available:
    Essence of Gossamer from 2nd boss in H AN
    Black Heart from regular TOC 5 man
    If you are lucky, Juggernaut's vitality from toc25 Faction Champs
    DO NOT buy the corroded skeleton key from badges. Save them for 4 pc Tier 10

    Also, I'd change some of your enchants if you plan on tanking. Boots should be some form of stamina, either Tuskarr's or +22 stam..I think even agi to boots would be better than Icewalker from a tanking perspective. Shoulders should be the stamina pvp enchant and not the AP/crit one.

    Yes. In order of preference.
    Tuskarr's for day to day stuff
    22 stam for max survival spec
    20 agility

    A question I have is how often do you use Barkskin? (and other survival cooldowns) if your healers are saying you're hard to heal that might be a big problem. Also, why did you skip the 4% dodge talent? Feral Swiftness will net you more avoidance than all that agility gemming and avoidance trinketing, allowing you to focus more on health.
    Good advice.

    I'd suggest removing the two points in King of the Jungle for the 4% dodge.
    I would keep King of the Jungle myself.

    Rather than going piecemeal, here's what your bear spec should look like. This is based on preserving master Shapeshifter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adonijah View Post
    Gloves -- First bit of my advice in the category would be to replace your +20 agility enchant with the 2% Threat (TBC) or 2% Threat + 10 Parry (mats may be cheaper due to availability). Once you find your threat getting plenty beefy, you can switch back to +20 agility, +18 stamina, or +240 armor. +240 armor isn't the best for bear, but is among the best for tanks in general. +18 Stamina will likely become best once you start hitting hard DR returns on Dodge.
    Just stick with 20 agility, unless you are hard up for expertise. There's just no good reason to go for 2% threat. 18 stam or 240 armor (or 885 for engineers) is for much later.

    Trinkets -- As Guth stated, Stamina trinkets are really the way to go. The Black Heart from normal Trial of the Champions is excellent, and rather easy to obtain with the help of some guildies (bring an enchanter if no one needs the gear, free crystals for the gbank). The Corroded Skeleton Key is great, but depending on your gear when you have enough Frost Emblems, another piece of gear might prove a better upgrade (the Tanking relic should be first, no questions asked). Some easy-to-obtain non-stamina trinkets would be Ick's Rotting Thumb (+113 Dodge Rating + Battlemaster's Effect) and the Glyph of Indomitability (1792 armor + 512 dodge rating use).
    Mostly covered earlier, but again, don't purchase corroded skeleton key until 4 pc t10 and the emblem of frost cloak is purchased.

    Rings - Clutch of Fortification is excellent, and the Dexterous Brightstone Ring is good (though not ideal). The tanking rings from Onyxia offer stamina and armor, both great stats for a tank. If you feel like choosing a tank ring from Ashen Verdict rep runs, those are also great choices (and again, easy-to-obtain).

    Weapon and Relic - Rawr! Origin of Nightmares is great, but there are other options with much more FAP. Reinforced Thunderstrike from Ony10/25 is good, Orca-Hunter's Harpoon from Heroic Halls of Reflection is also great. Marrowstrike, while not as great in terms of tanking stats, will definitely increase your threat output. Also, the tanking relic from Frost Emblems is cheap and amazing, get it!
    good advice. Basically marrowstrike is the easiest weapon to get, and the next one will likely be Orca Hunter's harpoon when you are geared enough for Heroic HoR. Beyond that it's either Ony25 or ToC25 staff from twin valks or archon staff off anub'arak.

    Gemming - If you're still having trouble with threat, post the priority rotation you use while tanking. If you're still having troubles (on single-target specifically), switch some of your pure stamina gems from your yellow slots to Haste/Stamina (Forceful Eye of Zul) since Maul is easily our highest threat output for single target. Otherwise, Guth's advice is best concerning red and blue slots.
    I disagree. NEVER gem for haste. Ignore yellow sockets and socket pure stamina (or stick a nightmare tear at best in one of them for 6+ agi or 9+ stam socket bonus).
    For red sockets, it's always agi/stam (never pure agi), with the exception of your chest. Since you aren't gonna get the socket bonus, replace the 20 agi with 30 stamina.

    1) So to recap gems
    replace agi with stam in helm
    replace agi with stam in chest
    replace agi with agi/stam on legs

    2) Replace pvp shoulder enchant with stam/resilience enchant

    3) Re spec as I suggested

    4) Try out and report back results.

    --

    Jesus, my medication is doing a number on me ><

  8. #8
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    Why take King of the Jungle? A lot of the druids I play with use Enrage while macro'd, with a second press that cancels the effect (like using Bladestorm) so they get the initial +20 rage but don't suffer from the armor penalty. The benefits are wonderful, but I'd likely only take it if I was building a hybrid spec meant for off-tanking or pvp when I wanted a Restoration second spec. The extra damage is nice, of course, but compared to making you harder to heal? Meh in my book.

    The post about gemming haste was a contingency where all other avenues (minus have-to-get-lucky raid drops) of increasing threat generation were unavailable, including creating a better rotation. At that point, what else is there to do? Simply not hold threat? I mentioned something similar in a warrior thread and must have forgotten to add this, but the only case in which you'd do this is where you'd be getting really good socket bonuses such as 9+ stamina (or some similar amount of agility).

    The idea is if nothing else is available, minimize your lost stamina while gaining some threat generation through Maul. The best example of this would be his helm, where the socket bonus would net him +8 agility. But you are right, that the Nightmare Tear (+10 to all stats I think?) should be the first gem you have at a yellow socket (since +10 to str/agy/stam is excellent) for a socket bonus. After that though, gaining 10 Haste at the cost of 6~ish stamina is not all that bad. Now this is not optimal (not arguing that point), but by the time your gear's average ilvl exceeds the 226-232 range (minus trinkets), any other aggro problems are (most likely) being caused by other issues. It is the same idea with the +2% Threat enchant. One of the two problems is threat. 20 agility will not make or break him for what he's doing, but a flat +2% threat increase can really help a struggling tank with threat generation.

    These kinds of fixes is only for running heroics and raids that are now easily outgeared like Onyxia, Ulduar, and the like. With the unlikely but possible exception of Heroic Halls of Reflection, that kind of small change in health/avoidance should not be an issue. If it is, there are other issues at hand (like stupid dps, lazy or undergeared healer, bad pulls, etc).

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    wow thanks a ton for the advice. i appreciate the time u took to help me out. ill rework some stuff tomorrow and let u knwo how it goes. thanks again

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