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Thread: T10 vs. Frost Emblem Gear for 10 Man Raiding

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2010

    T10 vs. Frost Emblem Gear for 10 Man Raiding

    I'm a Bear tank that is the MT for my 10-man Raiding Guild. I'm in a condundrum over what to do regarding the T10 Gear vs. Frost Emblem/Crafted gear.

    While the 2Pc and 4PC set bonuses are quite nice, I'm having a hard time justifying purchasing and using the base iLvl 251 T10 gear over the non-tier iLvl 264 gear. If I had access to acquiring the iLvl 264 T10 pieces, it would be a no-brainer, but as my guild does not run 25 man content and hard modes in the distant future for us, I'll be stuck with the iLvl 251 pieces for T10. It would be an incredibly long time, if indeed ever, that I would be able to upgrade the base iLvl 251 tier pieces to iLvl 264.

    Lasherweave Raiment vs. Shadow Seeker's Tunic

    Lasherweave Handgrips vs. Cat Burglar's Grips

    Lasherweave Legguards vs. Bladeborn Leggings (Crafted)

    The extra tanking CD that the 4pc Tier provides with Enrage (12% Damage reduction for 10 seconds) is incredibly enticing, especially on a 1 minute CD, but I can't help but feel like I'm gimping myself overall by not taking the iLvl 264 gear when its available for the same cost. I do plan on picking up the T10 Shoulders and Head for the 2Pc bonus.

    I'd welcome any thoughts or suggestions!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    the chest from 25 man is BOE id buy that and get the other 4 pcs of t10, not missing a ton of difference on the stats and you can always get 264 hands and legs from voa

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    I'm not feral, I'm a Bear: NEWS UPDATE: Armory lists all ICC items, including heroic10 and 25, expcet Lich King drops

    I really need to do that comparison over in a new post with the 251 vs the 264.

    Also if you are going to get anything at all crafted, get the boots. The crafted boots are better than even the 277 25 man hard mode boots.

    And yes, legs and gloves, just keep running voa when it comes out and hope to get lucky with the 264

    Also the first 4 are very easily puggable in ICC. Find a GDKP run if you can afford a set token or just an open roll pug and hope to win the roll on the token.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Here is an advance copy of an article I am currently writing for my blog: still working on part 2.

    Looking at the 10 man drops vs the 251 set pieces, it is very clear the 10 man drops are made for DPS.


    The set has 8 more agi, 47 more stam, 88 crit instead of 80 haste, 8 less ArP, and 59 less AP.

    Set wins.


    The set has 16 more agi, 26 more stam, 16 more crit, but 8 less ArP, 36 less AP, and one less socket.

    The socket is still not enough to counter to lack of stam on a clear DPS piece, set up 2-0.

    Chest (Finally a comparision that wowhead recognizes):

    The set has 12 more agi, 51 more stam, 96 crit instead of 99 haste, 1 more ArP, but 41 less AP, and one less socket.

    Same as above, the socket cannot offset the stam deficit of a DPS peice, set up 3-0.


    The set has 31 more stam, 8 more ArP, 63 haste instead of 63 crit, but 8 less AP, and one less socket.

    This one is a toss up. If you happen to get the scourge ones to drop you can safely use those and save your badges until if and when you need the set gloves for a set bonus.


    The set has 24 more agi, 18 more stam, 80 expertise instead of 103 crit, 36 more ArP, but 47 less AP and one less socket.

    This tier has a severe lack of hit and expertise compared to the past ones giving the set legs the edge.


    The set and offset legs have the same amount of stam and agi, it looks like these legs are the exception to the 10-man for DPS rule. In addition, the set legs have more AP (16 more) for a change, and it trades 96 ArP on the set for 96 haste on the off-set and 80 expertise on the set legs for 72 crit on the off-set. Again though this comes at the cost of a socket which makes the off-set better for pure survivability which includes more savage defense procs because of extra crit (still not sure where the trade off comes in on this because with the less expertise you wont be hitting as much so less change to crit so this last part might be innacurate).


    Not considering any 264 items, you still want 4pc simply because all the 251 drops are designed for dps. There are 3 different ways I would do this in this order:
    • 4-pc with the second off-set legs gives you the best survivability
    • 5-pc set gives you a significant threat boost over the above option at the cost of a socket which is probably the better option
    • 4-pc set and off-set gloves if you just cannot get the off-set legs to drop (which unfortunately means once they do drop you basically wasted the badges buying the legs)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    I'm in a very similar situation (one of two MT's for a guild that strictly does 10mans), and I decided to go with an adaptive solution. In other words, I looked at what's available from 10man drops, what off-set pieces I have access to, what pieces I've already acquired, and then went from there.

    In practice, this means that so far, I have bought the t10 251 helm and shoulders. The reasoning is that there is 1.) no 264 badge bought piece for either slot, and 2.) the 251 pieces that drop from icc10 in those slots are either comparable or worse for tanking in my opinion.

    That being said, I've been lucky enough to get 251 drops for both hands and legs already, so my next purchase will probably be the 264 badge bought chest. This way I will allow myself some time to hope for voa luck with the hands/legs.

    Hope this helps, helm/shoulder are a good place to get a quick 2pc bonus without giving up the equivalent higher ilevel bought pieces.

    EDIT: Quick note, I *did* buy the 264 cape, honestly just because I was really really sick of running around in the Cloak of the Shadowed Sun for so long, not much in the way of upgrades for 10man raiding bears in between.
    Last edited by Barta; 01-23-2010 at 01:05 AM.
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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    I agree with Barta here. The best solution for 10man bear tanks is helm,shoulder, hands, legs of tier 10 and the 264 badge chest. If you are serious about 10-man raiding and have the opportunity to do hard modes in 10-man eventually, the 4 set pieces will upgrade.

    The shadow seeker's has 92 expertise and a blue socket over the sanctified lasher. The sanctified lasher has 92 armor pen instand of expertise. So the Shadow Seeker's is the best chest you will get doing strictly 10-man.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2008

    Re-posting this here even though I just bumped the best-in-slot thread with it because this is the thread that made me want to write this blog.

    In short, the chest from frost badges is still bad because the 264 drop is BOE. By using 2-pc 251 set and the 3 264 items, you gain 83 ArP, and 63 haste but gain 33 agi, 49 stam, 72 armor, 53 AP, 76 crit, 12 expertise, 100 hit, and 3 sockets.

    And to quote myself
    One final note: hard modes will be out soon giving even 10 man raiders access to the 264 tier items. The hard mode versions of the dps loot ARE STILL dps loot. This combined with the new VOA boss dropping 264 gloves and legs (although in reality we still do not know how this will work) and you already using 251-helm and shoulders.... I think it would be a waste of gold to craft legs and badges buying either the gloves or the saronite for the legs if you have any plan on doing hard mode 10-ICC.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    I think "bad" is a bit overstated. The Shadow Seeker's isn't the best but it is a very close second to the Sack of Wonder. So, lacking 25,000 gold or the ability to loot it directly, the Shadow Seeker's is a very fine and close alternative. Both the Shadow Seeker's and Sack of Wonder are much better than the tier chest piece and potential improvements to the tier chest piece.

  9. #9
    The hit rating on the sack is what makes it really shine, especially with the lack of it on the rest of our gear.

    I'd like to see a full up BIS list for 10 man including accessories. Especially one where magically we're at the hit cap once again.
    "Ultimately, making the blanket statement '25m content is harder, period' is at best an overstatement and at worst ignorant drivel." Garrek

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