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Thread: Icecrown Blood Queen Lanathel

  1. #61
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    May 2009
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    Tested yesterday and it seems it's first damage done to lana'thel after the tanks at the pull. But it seems there is a minimum requirement. A hot ticking for 500 hp won't pull the bite for exemple, but successive ones without any damage done will.

    We had our hunter shoot the first behind the tanks, he fd'd and had 0 tricks on him and still got the bite. Tested multiple times with different hunters. Worked 100%

  2. #62
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    Feb 2009
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    It is definitely threat based. We had a warrior going defensive stance on the pull get first bite most of the time last night despite being not at the top of dps. We also, in 10 man this week, had a resto shaman get first bite with 0 damage done but quite a bit of threat from early healing. I suspect it is the top threat outside of the tanks at some point in time before the bite is actually made but I am not sure exactly when.

  3. #63
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    I've got two questions about this fight in the 25man:

    1) Does anyone know what your DPS pace should be around the first air phase? We were getting the boss down to 60-65% here. We haven't even made it to an enrage yet, so I'm wondering where people think we *should* be at this point.

    2) How on earth do you deal with the air phase? Our healing looked good with 6 healers. Our DPS looked pretty good getting her down very low. But whenever we hit an air phase, we seemed to be consistently losing 4-5 people. Also note that we have an extremely high number of melee dps, so that makes spreading out a bit harder for us.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacksen View Post
    I've got two questions about this fight in the 25man:

    1) Does anyone know what your DPS pace should be around the first air phase? We were getting the boss down to 60-65% here. We haven't even made it to an enrage yet, so I'm wondering where people think we *should* be at this point.

    2) How on earth do you deal with the air phase? Our healing looked good with 6 healers. Our DPS looked pretty good getting her down very low. But whenever we hit an air phase, we seemed to be consistently losing 4-5 people. Also note that we have an extremely high number of melee dps, so that makes spreading out a bit harder for us.
    1) I don't have a number off the top of my head. I would assume Lore has a boss health bar visible in his video.

    2)Be sure to get as many people in groups with tremor totem as possible; that will give you more time to spread out and react. Assign each raid group a general area to go to, splitting the melee into left/right halves. There is plenty of time to spread out once you're in your designated area, but if everyone just tries to pile up in the center, it's not going to end well.

  5. #65
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    Jul 2007
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    btw, the MC isn't cc'able as far as my raid could tell yesterday.

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  6. #66
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    Jul 2007
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    Something I wasn't expecting, I OT'ed this fight last night (25man) for several tries and my damage taken was from blood mirror and from "slash" which I thought was only on the MT (who never got a single tick), it never stacked but the addition of 10-15k initial hit plus tick was a little unexpected. I'd changed trinkets to pure stam because of the magic damage and was contemplating stacking some extra spell resistances but not sure if it's possible to gear for both bleed and magic damage. I saw random "absorb" values both on initial hit and dot, but I'm guessing that might have been due to healing procs - how do bleeds work?? I know the bleeds are minor in relation to the blood mirror (85%) of damage but was just wondering, also out of warrior and DK any preferences on soaker/tank?
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  7. #67
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    Sep 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazeyonoma View Post
    btw, the MC isn't cc'able as far as my raid could tell yesterday.
    I always break mine with human racial (EMFHS) so it should be

  8. #68
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    Dec 2009
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    btw, the MC isn't cc'able as far as my raid could tell yesterday.
    I think he is saying that you can't use CCs on the person if they get mind controlled, although I thought I heard one of our raiders say they could stun, but polymorph, fear, etc don't work. But yes the fear she does is dispellable in every way you can get rid of a fear.

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    Hi,

    We went on Queen Lana'thel in 25 man last week and our consistant problem was a few people dying here and there in Phase 1 and when entering Phase 2 everyone got blown up instantly. It may be due to unefficient spreadin, I am aware of this. However, I was just wondering if anyone else had those issues. We have a 6 healer setup, 2 on tanks and 4 on raid, most raid healers pulling 7,5 to 9k HPS. Should we put only one holy pally on tanks with his beacon on OT and have them maximize defensive CDs and switch as often as possible, thus giving one making one more raid healer available? We generally use a warrior MT and Blood DK OT. Any help, advice and/or tips would be welcome.

    Ech

  10. #70
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    Oct 2008
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    Yay for Fibonacci strings!

  11. #71
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    Dec 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petninja View Post
    Yay for Fibonacci strings!
    It's not a Fibonacci sequence, it's exponential growth.

    Fib: 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, ....
    Exp: 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, ...

    If there was a 60 second "cooldown" between biting someone else and refreshing the essence, then it would end up as a Fib sequence. But that is neither here, nor there.
    I'm a tank. I like the beatings.

  12. #72
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    Apr 2009
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    pretty sure the part where it says she'll bite the highest non-tank threat is incorrect

    plenty of people dispute this though.

  13. #73
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    Feb 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djtk View Post
    "This only lasts 50 seconds though and unless they bite another person after these 50 seconds are up, they will get mind-controlled by Lana'thel and must be killed."

    Is there not the 10 second timer AFTER the 50 seconds to bite someone? If so then this statement is VERY misleading.
    Could someone confirm/deny this 10 second timer after the 50 seconds is up?

  14. #74
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    Dec 2009
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    There is most certainly a timer after the essence time is up.

    Essence in 25 man now lasts 60 seconds though, not 50, and in 25 man it lasts 75, not 60. I believe the timer is 15 seconds to bite someone, although it might be 10 in 25 man.

    Some information for those in the past couple of posts:

    - Bloodbolt has a very high resist rate. Typically your raiders will resist 50-75% of the damage with normal shadow resist up. However, the Bloodbolt Splash either uses normal resist rules or diminished resist rules (meaning it's a lot harder to resist it). I suspect this is done to punish people who don't spread out, but not punish by nature of randomness. For this reason, spreading out is *key* to the air phase and once you prevent Bloodbolt Splash issues, you'll see the damage taken during the air phase reduced drastically. She only shoots out 8 bolts every 2 seconds 3 times, which is 24 bolts total. In the worst case scenario, a raider with no heals the 6 seconds the Whirl is going out will take somewhere in the vicinity of 20-24k damage if they're hit by all 3 rounds of the Bloodbolts. This is relatively unlikely to happen, as they will probably get some heals *and* not get hit by all 3. With Paladin cooldowns up (Aura Mastery and Divine Guardian), the damage that goes out drops dramatically, but splashes will still kill people.

    - Delirious Slash is meant to be on the off-tank, and you should not do tank switches. The off-tank will need a slight bit more healing than the main tank, but not by much.

    - Blood Mirror damage is friendly fire and is not resistible. Shadow resist will not help.

    - Blood Mirror damage is seemingly not reducible either. No Divine Protection, no Shield Wall, no Barkskin, nothing. Absorbs will work as normal damage absorption.


    Our healing strategy for this has been 2 Holy Paladins, 3 Druids, and 1 Shaman so far and it has worked out very well. The tanks take decent damage but because of the spikey effects that go out in the encounter, we found that having 2 Paladins, one each to beacon the tanks (enough to cover the damage they take), let us keep these players a lot safer than if they were only covered by raid healers. This is one of those fights where a Paladin's extreme HL bomb (plus glyph splash) on a raider has very high effective healing if done correctly.

  15. #75
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    Jul 2007
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    Last night we been the Queen for the first time in 10 man, but with less than 5 seconds on the enrage timer. It was VERY tight. Our biggest problem was losing people on the 2nd air phase.

    What is the correct way to handle this? I have yet to see a good answer. With the current timers, she will be airborne (and everyone needs to be spread out) right when 4 need to bite another 4. So you either spread out and get mind controlled or bite and die to splash damage.

    Are we handling this wrong, or is that just a case of power through and pray the healers can keep most of the raid up?

  16. #76
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    Dec 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belak View Post
    Last night we been the Queen for the first time in 10 man, but with less than 5 seconds on the enrage timer. It was VERY tight. Our biggest problem was losing people on the 2nd air phase.

    What is the correct way to handle this? I have yet to see a good answer. With the current timers, she will be airborne (and everyone needs to be spread out) right when 4 need to bite another 4. So you either spread out and get mind controlled or bite and die to splash damage.

    Are we handling this wrong, or is that just a case of power through and pray the healers can keep most of the raid up?
    You actually are handling it wrong.

    In 10 man, part of the strategy involves the first couple bites to be delayed until the last moment you're comfortable with. This usually means the first biter waits until there's 2-3 seconds left on the debuff before biting, and if you trust the second bitten person, both players do that again at the second round of bites. This should delay the need to bite someone again on the 4->8 transition enough that everyone is back in place as it comes up.

    More commonly, delaying just the first one should work out to having the bite button pop up just as the bloodbolt whirl ends and you can bite in enough time as you're heading back to your spots.

    If you're worried about the actual damage from the bloodbolt whirl, once you've solved the above it should fall into place. The direct damage from the bloodbolts is pitiful, but the splash damage is significant. Taking 0 splashes means survival is incredibly easy.

  17. #77
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    Feb 2010
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    Reading this helped me understand it. I haven't done this fight and when you were talking about biting someone I wasn't sure if a bite action would appear or if Blizzard expected you to do a bite emote on a raid member.

    :P

  18. #78
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    Oct 2009
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    51
    Hey all,

    After reading through the 4 pages (very useful info, thanks everyone), transcript, and watching the video, I have 3 questions regarding 10 man.

    1. Supposedly, by the time 8 people have the Essence of the Blood Queen, she should be close to dying, i.e. another phase of Biting should not happen. If this is the case, it is a relief. However, my question is, can the people with Frenzied Bloodthirst bite the OT or MT so I can say beforehand that they should not do this. We don't want the MT or OT running around trying to find people (don't think the numbers would even add up).

    2. I have also heard the fight has become much easier after the increase to Essence buff time and we now have 15 seconds to bite someone else before you get MC'd? You should still keep DPS'ing and wait until 3-4 seconds are left to bite a person?

    3. What's the final verdict on being able to CC mind-controlled people? Can they just not be sheeped because they are now classified as Vampires/Undead, like how you can't sheep the trash in the Blood wing? Near the end when people start getting MC'd, is it better to have ranged DPS pull off the boss and kill those MC'd players or just focus on burning the boss? MC'd people have their damage and health increased, so they can be a problem?

    We haven't attempted BQL yet, but these are just questions that I am unsure about and would like to be prepared for these scenarios. Also for anyone else thinking similar things.

    Thanks and great job on the video once again.
    Keebzz - Blood Tank | Frost DPS
    Something Wicked | US Malfurion

  19. #79
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    Feb 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by keebz View Post
    1. Supposedly, by the time 8 people have the Essence of the Blood Queen, she should be close to dying, i.e. another phase of Biting should not happen. If this is the case, it is a relief. However, my question is, can the people with Frenzied Bloodthirst bite the OT or MT so I can say beforehand that they should not do this. We don't want the MT or OT running around trying to find people (don't think the numbers would even add up).
    The MT and OT are valid targets for Frenzied Bloodthirst, yes. However, they should not be bitten if it can be avoided at all. I would recommend they only be bitten as a last resort.

    Quote Originally Posted by keebz View Post
    2. I have also heard the fight has become much easier after the increase to Essence buff time and we now have 15 seconds to bite someone else before you get MC'd? You should still keep DPS'ing and wait until 3-4 seconds are left to bite a person?
    It's not possible to continue DPSing when you have Frenzied Bloodthirst - the only thing you can do at this point is bite another player, or be MC'd after 15 seconds. Some guilds choose to delay the first person biting the second by doing the bite at the last few seconds of the debuff so people can stay spread out during her air phase.

    Quote Originally Posted by keebz View Post
    3. What's the final verdict on being able to CC mind-controlled people? Can they just not be sheeped because they are now classified as Vampires/Undead, like how you can't sheep the trash in the Blood wing? Near the end when people start getting MC'd, is it better to have ranged DPS pull off the boss and kill those MC'd players or just focus on burning the boss? MC'd people have their damage and health increased, so they can be a problem?
    My recommendation is to not worry about dealing with people that are MC'd. If you are consistently running into this problem, the strategy needs to be re-addressed. When completing this encounter on both normal and hard modes, I can say that an MC'd player will likely mean a wipe to the enrage, as you lose significant DPS from any bites the player would have given.

  20. #80
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    34
    You'll actually run into the hard enrage before the 8->16 bite transition comes up in 10 man, so if you get an MC, someone screwed up.

    The off-tank should be bitten in the 4->8 bite transition because they offer more DPS than the healers can. The main tank being bitten at this point is not a bad idea if healer threat is not out of hand. If you're having dps issues, biting the two tanks before healers is always better.

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