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Thread: Icecrown Blood Princes

  1. #61
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    I generally run the 10 and 25 man modes the same way. 1 Tank on both melee bosses, 1 range tank on Kel. Every melee and range sets in place their scatter locations and lock it down as we hit the Vortex fight portion. Melee then hit the chase portion and the X runs like hell. We blow heroism on the 2nd or 3rd rotation of the range tanks target depending on current threat levels. We managed to down it in less than three full rotations last night with a single death due to a empowered vortex and empowered fireball hitting within about 8seconds and a missed Orb hitting the ground. We do plus up to 8 heals with the other tank swapping roles on this fight.

  2. #62
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    We follow a tank for each, and this has worked for us fine. We have had a DK tank be the range tank and also have had hunters, warlocks, and I believe even a mage, do just fine at range tanking. There never seems to be a threat issue - probably due to the fact tanks get solo face time with their boss when it is not active. On 25 man we use 7 healers I do believe. I could be wrong on that and we use less.
    "Listen to your heart, but follow your mind."

    [ Sarvoth | Prot Warrior since Beta Phase 1 | Elysian - Khaz'Goroth ]

  3. #63
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    Hey guys, thanks for all the great videos and commentaries, they are really helpful.

    My question here is related to the ranged tanking and an issue we seem to have that a couple of others have mentioned, namely the ranged tank getting killed for silly damage. I was tanking on my lock, initially in normal gear / spec, went to pvp gear then switched to demo spec, soul link with voidwalker, glyph of voidwalker, pvp gear, 2 brewfest trinkets, guru elixir pot etc. I was on around 37k hp. When tanking I had 4 of the nuclei on me and had up to 6 on a couple of attempts. However, my combat logs all show, as soon as he gets empowered, he was 1 shotting me doing lances that were over 40k hits (with 10,000 or so absorbed). Has anyone got any ideas to get around this or is it a bug of sorts? Would it be better to simply tank it with a proper tank (though given we are raiding casuals, can't rely on say a well geared DK for every time)?

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farfetch View Post
    Hey guys, thanks for all the great videos and commentaries, they are really helpful.

    My question here is related to the ranged tanking and an issue we seem to have that a couple of others have mentioned, namely the ranged tank getting killed for silly damage. I was tanking on my lock, initially in normal gear / spec, went to pvp gear then switched to demo spec, soul link with voidwalker, glyph of voidwalker, pvp gear, 2 brewfest trinkets, guru elixir pot etc. I was on around 37k hp. When tanking I had 4 of the nuclei on me and had up to 6 on a couple of attempts. However, my combat logs all show, as soon as he gets empowered, he was 1 shotting me doing lances that were over 40k hits (with 10,000 or so absorbed). Has anyone got any ideas to get around this or is it a bug of sorts? Would it be better to simply tank it with a proper tank (though given we are raiding casuals, can't rely on say a well geared DK for every time)?
    I'd recommend going to the Halp! forums and posting a link to the logs in question. Because what you are saying isn't functionally possible. If you had 4 on you, that's 82% damage reduction so the type of damage you are taking is closer to 350% expected, I can't even think any kind of damage applification that could result in an increase that high. If you want advice in this case you'll have to post a log parse and ask someone else to try and find what is wrong. Use the Halp! forums because it doesn't really pretain to the strategy itself. The strategy works.

    I think it's more likely you are dying to a different boss mechanic rather than the Shadow Lance, remember, they still finish their last empowered cast before it switches.
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

  5. #65
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    Thank you for the response, as I said, I looked in my combat logs and it said that I was hit for around 40,000 damage (around 4k over kill) with 10,000 absorbed - that is why I asked if there was any known bug here as I believe on 10 man the empowered lance is 78-82k damage and orbs offer 35% reduction multiplying.

    Next time we go it may well be using 2 physical tanks but if I do off tank again I will grab screen shots of the logs as I don't have any way of recording them. The strat is fine in theory but if there is an issue with the fight then it's worth raising I think as there are other people in this topic who have said the same thing - ref post #21 by Tahriel (hunter tank with 5 orbs getting 1 shotted); post #25 by Hamburglar (lock tank dying with 3 orbs); #31 by Zikkar (lock tank with 3-4 orbs one shotted)

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farfetch View Post
    Thank you for the response, as I said, I looked in my combat logs and it said that I was hit for around 40,000 damage (around 4k over kill) with 10,000 absorbed - that is why I asked if there was any known bug here as I believe on 10 man the empowered lance is 78-82k damage and orbs offer 35% reduction multiplying.

    Next time we go it may well be using 2 physical tanks but if I do off tank again I will grab screen shots of the logs as I don't have any way of recording them. The strat is fine in theory but if there is an issue with the fight then it's worth raising I think as there are other people in this topic who have said the same thing - ref post #21 by Tahriel (hunter tank with 5 orbs getting 1 shotted); post #25 by Hamburglar (lock tank dying with 3 orbs); #31 by Zikkar (lock tank with 3-4 orbs one shotted)
    Most likely the person claiming to have more dark nuclei on them is wrong. Also simply having aggro from them doesn't mean they are channeling the debuff on you, it could take anywhere up to like 7 seconds or so for the thing just to move over to you before it starts channeling. Look at the last tick of damage caused by one of them. Look at the last tick of damage caused by one of them before the 40k hit. Then compare that to the first tick of damage. If those values are close to equal (this is shadow damage as well) then that means they only had 1 dark nucleus on them when they took the 40k hit. It does 1000 shadow damage per tick, litterally, if you look at the size of the tick that is the percentage of damage they take from empowered shadow lance. If it's 650 damage, that's 1000 -35%, or just one dark nucleus.

    That is more likely the key to the problem. A lot of people saying they have x number of dark nuclei are often lying (in denial) or don't know how the mechanics work. Until the thing starts channeling, it's not benefiting you at all. You have to pay attention to your debuffs and you can see it in the combat logs. Many people posting this also don't have logs to support their claim.

    Can you show me a log where 5 dark nuclei = 11.6% shadow damage taken. Show me the combat log parse where someone has dark nuclei channeling on them for around 116 damage, yet gets hit by empowered shadow lance for 40k.

    #21 = no combat logs provided
    #25 = no combat logs provided, also references slow spawn rate at start which Blizzard did put in a hotfix for so there would be enough dark nuclei feasible to tank before it could switch
    #31 = no combat logs provided

    Without combat logs... saying "I had 5 dark nuclei" is great and all, but the combat log would say "Dark Nucleus deals 116 damage to JoePlayer" from the channeled effect. That says he's only taking 11.6% damage, and that says he has 5 dark nuclei on them... (1.00 - 0.35) ^ 5 = 0.116

    I'm not saying people are lying. I'm saying, please provide the evidence (video, combat logs, ect) that support the claim that the mechanic is bugged.
    Last edited by Quinafoi; 02-20-2010 at 10:47 AM.
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

  7. #67
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    I don't know how many of you know, or if it's been said, but one of our 10-man groups discovered what I feel is a pretty slick trick.

    Because of the way the healthbars work on this fight, you can MD + Killshot Keleseth to the appropriate character right off the bat. That gives the Keleseth tank a SIGNIFICANT threat lead from GCD 1.

  8. #68
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    Warlock Tank

    With me being a warlock, i was wondering if shadow ward can help at all while tanking keleseth?

  9. #69
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    Does anybody know what Glittering Sparks looks like? I've not seen any reference to it in any videos, or any obvious cone ability performed by Taldaram.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurtov View Post
    Does anybody know what Glittering Sparks looks like? I've not seen any reference to it in any videos, or any obvious cone ability performed by Taldaram.
    It's not a highly visible ability... it's not a giant fireball flying at your head for sure. Seeing it is something not required for the encounter since two thirds of the time you're not even looking at that boss. The important thing it for dispellers to clense the debuff off people (and dps clensers that can help do this will make the healers happier). I really wouldn't worry about looking for it (there isn't much of a graphic anyway other than the boss may turn), you can't dodge it or anything like say Slime Spray on Rotface, the ability is instant. Just clense the debuff when you see it.
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinafoi View Post
    I really wouldn't worry about looking for it (there isn't much of a graphic anyway other than the boss may turn), you can't dodge it or anything like say Slime Spray on Rotface, the ability is instant. Just clense the debuff when you see it.
    Good to know, thanks.

  12. #72
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    Hello! I am in a casual 10 man guild and we haven't managed to down Blood Princes mainly due to lack of time (we generally do about 2-3 hours). We tried 2 tanking the melee bosses and having a warlock on Keleseth at first but he kept dying whenever Keleseth got empowered.

    So I looked around at some various strats and forums and it seemed like having 2 normal tanks (one for the two melee bosses, one for keleseth) was a fairly successful strat.

    I'm a pally tank, and I usually assign myself to off-tanking because I'm pretty quick at picking up adds and keeping good threat on multiple targets. However I am having some real issues while tanking Keleseth, I'm having to run all over the place to pick up the nuclei, and half the time they seem to just ignore me and wander off to a healer instead. Then when Keleseth becomes empowered I lose aggro and our DPS dies. I have 2 questions:

    1. Is there a trick to picking up the nuclei without spending too much time on them while not building boss threat? Is a judgement or a shield of righteousness enough (or even the damage from hand of reckoning?) to pick it up and then focus back on the boss?

    2. Should I try and avoid damaging the nuclei once I've picked them up so that they don't die too fast and I have to pick up more? Or do they die fairly quickly by themselves regardless of my damage. My problem is that trying to keep at least 3 on me while keeping threat on Keleseth, one of them always dies and I'm running around looking for another.

    Thanks for any tips/replies!

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stern View Post
    1. Is there a trick to picking up the nuclei without spending too much time on them while not building boss threat? Is a judgement or a shield of righteousness enough (or even the damage from hand of reckoning?) to pick it up and then focus back on the boss?

    2. Should I try and avoid damaging the nuclei once I've picked them up so that they don't die too fast and I have to pick up more? Or do they die fairly quickly by themselves regardless of my damage. My problem is that trying to keep at least 3 on me while keeping threat on Keleseth, one of them always dies and I'm running around looking for another.

    Thanks for any tips/replies!
    You are failing to understand how their threat functions. Once you have threat, unless another player acts on the Dark Nuclei, you will not lose threat. They assign threat to the last unit to act on it. Hit it once and it should never leave you provided people are targeting them and intentionally taking them off or hitting them with AoE mechanics.

    And no, there really is nothing else for you to do but to be running around picking up Dark Nuclei. Over half your time on this fight will be spent rounding them up and relatively little time actually spent on the boss itself. Your top priority is survival, this encounter is not a DPS race, it's about proper execution.
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

  14. #74
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    Thank you for your response!

    So there should be no healer aggro on the Nuclei at all? It spawns, attaches itself to the closest person, I hit it with 'anything' and it'll stay on me for the rest of the fight provided there's no aoe hits on it?

    My other question remains, should I try and avoid hitting the Nuclei with AoE's, to prevent them from dying quickly? Or do they die on a pretty much set timer?

  15. #75
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    The Dark Nuclei die relatively fast on their own so if you can avoid causing excess damage to them that is helpful. You shouldn't have to do anything like downranking abilities (when applicable) but you shouldn't be applying unnecessary damage to them either. It's more important that you survive, and the key to your survival is the Dark Nuclei. If you die, the boss starts chain one shotting the raid before anyone else could pick up enough Nuclei to effectively tank him. Not all AoE abilities will hit the Dark Nuclei either. Cleaves for example will, however a balance druid using Starfall will not instantly pull them all off you and cause a wipe. You should avoid attacks that will hit them (like a cleave) when possible.
    "In anything, if you want to go from just a beginner to a pro, you need a montage." /w TankSpot WTB Montage for Raiders.

  16. #76
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    If anybody knows a good video that shows a normal tank (preferably pally) tanking Keleseth I would really appreciate a link to it.

    -Stern

  17. #77
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    Hallo,

    I was researching Princes a bit (having been out of the loop, between raids until recently) and found this blue tidbit on wowwiki:

    Prince Keleseth will no longer melee players. So if you get knocked into Keleseth or happen to move by him, he won't swipe in between his casts and kill a non-tank.
    I found the wording of this ambiguous - has he just stopped cleaving, or has he stopped meleeing altogether - i.e., is it still a bad idea for a tank to get in melee range of him?

    If not, seems like a warrior would be absolutely perfect for Kele.

  18. #78
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    For the unholy DKs tanking Keleseth, are you using a DPS spec and gear, DPS spec and tank gear, or tank gear and spec?

    Edit: expanding on my question. I'd guessed, as Arianne says below, that tank gear would be helpful just to stack stamina if nothing else. But would a purely DPS spec like http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#jfVMM...ux0uIqo:LsbMmV work, or are talents like Magic Suppression and Anti-Magic Zone necessary?

    Edit2: To answer the question, the 3.3.3 unholy sub-frost reapingless DPS spec did okay tanking Kel last night. Magic Suppression and Anti-Magic Zone would definitely have helped as there was a close call in Kel's first empowered phase then an "oh god I can't see any green in my health bar" call in the 2nd empowered phase. I did put on my mighty tanking (a.k.a the crap the real tanks didn't want) set for an impressive almost 43k health buffed (well, it was more than the warlock had). Aggo at least was solid, again not unexpectedly better than the warlock. If we don't mix it up again next time, I'm going to test out my Blood DPS spec, which should be more survivable than Unholy DPS.
    Last edited by Kauket; 03-29-2010 at 09:34 AM.

  19. #79
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    Keleseth no longer melees at all.

    Given that you spend most of your time running around collecting orbs, I doubt it'll be helpful to have DPS gear on though if you find that your threat is very bad you can try with some high health DPS gear.

    Every so often we have a prince fight where, for no particular reason it seems, the empowered orb smashes into melee and kills them all. This sometimes happens when he targets a priest, but has happened at other times as well where the target change can't have been caused by mirror images or fade or anything. We have plenty of ranged DPS (and healers). Does anyone have any insight on why this might happen?

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arianne View Post
    Every so often we have a prince fight where, for no particular reason it seems, the empowered orb smashes into melee and kills them all. This sometimes happens when he targets a priest, but has happened at other times as well where the target change can't have been caused by mirror images or fade or anything. We have plenty of ranged DPS (and healers). Does anyone have any insight on why this might happen?
    Our guild had this happen last week. We run with a druid tanking Keleseth and myself (warrior) tanking both Valanar and Taldaram. There was one attempt where I was targetted point blank with the empowered orb and was hit for 50k.

    Is he supposed to cast this at melee? I've not seen any strategies for this fight mention anything about melee having to run away from him when he starts casting to avoid getting pwned by fire if they happen to win the lottery.

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