The lost art of interrupting.

[Esch]

That is call for verbal abuse on vent, imo.

When the dps officer assigns three offspec DPS (including myself) as a second tier of interrupts, without telling the PRIMARY folks, you know interrupts are a mess on Vezax. I think he's still a hard boss merely has folks confuse 'Farm-status' with 'Easy'.

Several folks in my raid group can provide amazing dps, but it's much, much harder to convince them that the utility of interrupts, debuffs (sunders!) or other non-dps abilities make a difference. For our recent Rotface kill, I respec'ed not to improve my dps, but provide missing raid buffs. Getting mocked for my 'low' dps was hard, but Rotface fell, so I call it a draw. Pity that the standard response for a DPS to respec to benefit the raid is to point out someone else to do it instead.

I'd love Lady Deathwhisper to one shot a tank with a successful Frostbolt. Not that the ensuing wipe would be cheap, but it would hammer home that DPS isn't the only thing that matters. Would certainly make the comments that 'tanks aren't geared/holding threat' or 'healers are slacking' fade when the DPS themselves are under the spotlight.

[jugggernaut]

In general the overall playbase quality has dropped drastically. A wave of older players have quit because of the gear system, as well as the attitude of players nowadays.

Why don't people interrupt? because it 'costs them dps'. They have to go out of their rotation to use an ability that does no dps. This is assuming they have it ready on their actionbar. It's the same reason why the mob youre tanking always dies last. the DPS unload on the mob with the most hp, because they want to top meters.

[Eisen]

Honestly a lot of it is just plain laziness.

"Heroics? Bah, I have a 5k gearscore! Why bother working with the game mechanic when we have the stats to tanknspank through it?"

I hear that way too much. I get flak on my tank for treating EVERY encounter like it's still serious business. But to me it's a matter of professionalism and discipline. If you ignore game mechanics on old content you'll be rusty when you need them on new. Reference the earlier post about kiting.

[Theotherone]

It's a matter of situational awareness and knowing your toon. People need to think before the fight, "what's my job?" On Faction Champs when I'm a hunter my job, in addition to dps, is to keep Frost Traps down to slow the melee, hit healers (and everyone mob I'm dps'ing) with Silencing Shot everytime it comes off cooldown, if a hunter pet in on some one Scare Beast, and Wyvern Sting a range dps to sleep it for a bit, just for fun.

Know the fight, visualize the fight and know what your job is - makes the fights so much easier.

[Insahnity]

I blame people for trying and failing aswell. If I can do it as a prot warrior then there's absolutelly no excuses a dps (who's even hit capped) can't do it aswell.

While I wholeheartedly agree that DPS should get a kick in the nards for not doing anything other than DPS, I can attribute this thinking to two things
1) Tank threat is so good that with their threat lead, they can afford to stop TPSing to interrupt if needed
2) Prot warriors have an insane arsenal of interrupts, more than any other class and spec. Lemme list it again, to rub it in:
Stun on Intercept (3 sec)
Stun on Charge (1.5 sec)
Stun on Shockwave
Shield Bash
Heroic Throw with gag order

Assuming they aren't lazy or stupid, they figure if somebody has to sacrifice something, they'd rather sacrifice TPS, especially on a class that should have SOMETING available at all times, and their contribution to the raid is better served by downing the boss faster and plundering phat lewt.

"On my main, if I want something interrupted, it interrupt it myself."


This is one of the reasons that people like warrior tanks. Love the interrupt. Of course I interrupt stuff while I'm tanking, it's because I can.

Actually, I hope they give out some more interrupts to bear tanks and tankadins next expansion too. It'll whittle away at our traditional role some more, but it is so annoying to tank without interrupts that I think they probably need it.

Or perhaps they give DKs an aoe stun that works on trash mobs, much like shockwave. They already have Mind Freeze and Strangulate, which is comparable to a warrior's arsenal if you set aside shockwave, and would probably help out on their survival. This is on top of giving them an actual AP debuff.

As a warrior theres nothing more frustrating than lining up your spell reflect and one of those 2k dps Death knights interrupts that frostbolt.

Lawl, but true.

To have this not be simple QQ here is what I would love to see to improve the player base:

1) Detailed tutorials that must be completed covering not only class basics but the basics of mob mechanics, threat, focus targets, how to assist, group roles and play expectations.

2) Tank threat needs to be brought down a bit. Force DPS and to a lesser extent Healers to wake-up a bit and turn off auto-pilot.

3) Place at least one fight (end boss) in each dungeon that requires some skill to complete.

4) Trash dangerous enough that you'll really want to CC something until the final tiers of gear are out for the expansion.

5) Lower emblem requirements to reflect the harder (longer completion time) instances.

1) Little kids love repetition. Therefore, in order to really hammer it in, have class/spec specific attunement quests that must be soloed. Have a "boss dummy" of doing something that must be very black and white (Casts a 1 bajillion damage fireball unless it's interrupted, and nothing more; only takes damage from behind; Will hit for insane amounts unless disarmed; and so on). And have it done a lot in rapid succession, like 10 times. You can't do any instance until you have gone through it. The idea is that it be so comically trivial even a 5 year old can do it at least once, but you do that ONE thing over and over again.

2) We struggled with TPS in TBC, and they overcompensated in WotLK. Perhaps with the sweeping changes to combat mechanics and other fundamentals, they need to see how it works before tweaking threat. i was actually happier in TBC from a threat perspective, people understood its importance, and it would have been nicer if we had had TotT to smooth things over (like misdirect did). More of those mechanics would help. Give a caster a big sign with a pointer finger that said "He did it! I swear" to carry around.

3) They already have that. Last week the weekly was Maly, do you have any idea how many of my alts didn't get it because no pug could do P3?

4) Also done, FC. It's pretty rare to muscle through that.

This reminds me of an OS25 many many months ago. The trash with the healing curse. Comment from the PUG raid leader. "We have two boomkins, a feral druid, and three mages. Why wasn't even ONE curse dispelled?"

Reply from one boomkin "We don't have a resto druid."

To be fair:
-Feral druids shouldn't be asked to decurse, unless they are given the option to lick it away without changing forms. Unless you play a feral druid, you wouldn't understand.
-Many resto shamans don't release they can decurse, but I honestly wished we had an aoe decursing totem.


Finally, an anecdote I'd like to share

I was in a 25 man ToC PuG with no less than 4 warriors (one was a tank) and 6 rogues.
-Both tanks ended up with 3 stacks at the end of gormok. Yes, we got through it flawlessly, but couldn't even ONE of the 10 people dismantle/disarm?? especially the prot warrior, it's in his interest to do so while gormok is smacking him.
-On Jaraxus, I think there were a total of 3 Fel Fireball interrupts between all the melee, made all the worse with 3 DKs in addition to the rogues/warriors.
-We couldn't pass FC. Which is for the best, I'd have hated to see the heals on Twins, I might have snapped by then.

[Eisen]

2) Prot warriors have an insane arsenal of interrupts, more than any other class and spec. Lemme list it again, to rub it in:
Stun on Intercept (3 sec)
Stun on Charge (1.5 sec)
Stun on Shockwave
Shield Bash
Heroic Throw with gag order

Techncially you forgot concussion blow and improved revenge. However, most of those are useless on a boss fight. Most bosses are immune to all stuns. in addition, most bosses are immune to silence (Heroic throw counts as a silence). So on MOST interrupt sensitive fights, the only ability that actually works is Shield Bash. Which is on a 6-second cooldown. God help you if the boss casts anything more frequently than that.

You are right for trash however, we have TONS of abilities for trash.

All the same, if ANY fight is interrupt sensitive you want reduncancy. People lag, attacks miss, things go wrong. DPS should be ready to intterupt or CC if they have it.

I stunned a party last night on my shaman by using Hex. Most of them forgot shamen HAVE it. Made me laugh.

[Insahnity]

Techncially you forgot concussion blow and improved revenge. However, most of those are useless on a boss fight. Most bosses are immune to all stuns. in addition, most bosses are immune to silence (Heroic throw counts as a silence). So on MOST interrupt sensitive fights, the only ability that actually works is Shield Bash. Which is on a 6-second cooldown. God help you if the boss casts anything more frequently than that.

You are right for trash however, we have TONS of abilities for trash.

All the same, if ANY fight is interrupt sensitive you want reduncancy. People lag, attacks miss, things go wrong. DPS should be ready to intterupt or CC if they have it.

I stunned a party last night on my shaman by using Hex. Most of them forgot shamen HAVE it. Made me laugh.

Yer right, forgot those. Shield bash has a 6 sec duration, 12 sec cooldown, but also a moot point for bosses for anything other than interrupt.

I would have thought conc blow would also work, much as Hammer of Justice and Bear Bash interrupts bosses.

I'm trying to think what's as good or better than a reverberation specced shaman for interrupts.

[swelt]

Wish I had your shield bash. Mine is on a 12 second cooldown. Suspect you might have been thinking of slam...

12 seconds is (I suspect intentionally) just too long to solo interrupt bosses like vezax or jarraxus.

[Raysere]

Yer right, forgot those. Shield bash has a 6 sec duration, 12 sec cooldown, but also a moot point for bosses for anything other than interrupt.

I would have thought conc blow would also work, much as Hammer of Justice and Bear Bash interrupts bosses.

I'm trying to think what's as good or better than a reverberation specced shaman for interrupts.

Nothing, really, if the interrupts need to be made at less then 10s intervals, its that or use a rotation.

A little summary:-
(ranked in vague order of how easy it is for that spec to interrupt without disrupting normal operation)

Shaman: Wind Shear. Off GCD. 6sec CD (5sec talented into Reverbaration) Short lockout.

Mage: Counterspell. Off GCD. 24sec CD. 8sec lockout. longest lockout, but on longest CD.

Fury Warrior: Pummel. Off GCD. 10sec CD. 4sec lockout. Usable only in Berserker stance. Arms heavily prefers Battle stance, disruptive to stance-dance.

Prot Warrior: Shield bash. Off GCD. 12sec CD. 6sec lockout. (also silences with Gag Order talent) Usable only with Shield equipped - awkward to use as DPS.

Death Knight: Mind Freeze. Off GCD. 10sec CD. 4 sec lockout.
Strangulate: On GCD. 2min CD. 3sec lockout. Only interrupts on NPCs. 5sec Silence.

Warlock: Spell Lock (Felhunter). Off GDC. 24sec CD. 6sec interrupt. 3sec Silence. Most 'Locks prefer the Imp pet normally.

Hunter: Silencing Shot. Off GCD. 20sec CD. 3sec interrupt. 3sec silence. Only available to Marksmanship. Also used as DPS shot (?).

Rogue: Kick. Off GCD. 10sec CD. 5sec lockout. Rogue needs to pool energy to ensure they have Energy to Kick in time. Can be disruptive depending on spec.

Feral DPS: Maim. On GCD. 10sec CD. 3sec lockout. Burns both energy and any CP on target. Extremely disruptive to an already intensive DPS spec. Last resort only.

Feral Tank: Bash. On GCD. 1min CD. 3sec lockout. 4sec stun. Interrupt on NPCs only.

Paladin: Hammer of Justice. On GCD. 1min CD. 3sec lockout. 6sec stun. interrupt on NPCs only. (can be talented into shorter CD).

Shadow Priest: Silence. On GCD. 45sec CD. 3sec lockout. Interrupt on NPCs only. (Talented. Most PvE specs will NOT pick this up.)

That should be everything, bar maybe a hunter pet.

[Insahnity]

SPriest can pick up a Silence, might be an interrupt against a boss.
I think you meant Silencing Shot for hunters.
Not Sure if Kitty Pounce/Maim count as interrupts against NPCs

[Raysere]

SPriest can pick up a Silence, might be an interrupt against a boss.
I think you meant Silencing Shot for hunters.
Not Sure if Kitty Pounce/Maim count as interrupts against NPCs

Silence does indeed Interrupt NPCS, forgot about that change, and yup Silencing Shot, corrected those two now. Maim is listed, Pounce is only usable from stealth and does not interrupt, only stuns. As of a few patches ago, a few abilities (HoJ,Bash and Stangulate specificly) were changed to interrupt (as in school lock) NPC characters only as well as their usual effect. They work on bosses that'd usually just immune the Stun/silence effect. It's mentioned in the ability tooltip if this is the case.

[Eisen]

My bad, 12 seconds. Been playing the shammie a lot lately so screwd up the timers on WS and SB.

But yeah as others have said here, you're pretty much forced to use a rotation on a encounter that requires it.

[swelt]

Not a bad list Raysere. You might note that rogues can use arena gloves to reduce kick cost. You should probably also note that DK's interrupt requires them to be spell hit capped (a lot of 2h specs won't normally) and requires them to pool runic power.

I would have rogue/shaman/fury warrior as the top 3 for regular interrupt fights, with dk/prot very close behind and the others filed under 'special cases'.

[Maèl]

Warrior tanks have the best ways to deal with spells. Althoug I have the devils own time finding out what I can reflect or not. Devourer of Souls for instance is a very, very warrior tank kind of boss.
Is Pummel indeed off the GCD? I'm not to sure about this one.
For some reasons I find it infinitely easier to time SB than Pummel. But it could also be a practice issue.

[Nashiira]

I have recently discussed about this issue with guildies and people on Twitter. While I have my guildies mostly trained on to not be bads and make sure they interrupt, I still see it from time to time. I've even gone so far as to spec into non-Runic Power-using interrupts just to be able to do them whenever I need them and not wait for others.

[Vincenoir]

Warrior tanks have the best ways to deal with spells. Althoug I have the devils own time finding out what I can reflect or not. Devourer of Souls for instance is a very, very warrior tank kind of boss.
Is Pummel indeed off the GCD? I'm not to sure about this one.
For some reasons I find it infinitely easier to time SB than Pummel. But it could also be a practice issue.

Yes, Pummel is off the GCD. That wasn't always the case before though.

[Maèl]

Yes, Pummel is off the GCD. That wasn't always the case before though.

So I simply suck as Fury? My 2.5k dps on boss dummy in iLvl 232/245 stuff suggested something like that

I never managed to get that achievement in Gun'drak. For some reason the last transform always went through. Last time it was the cat who decided that NOW was the time to jump on a group members keyboard.

[Dreador]

So I simply suck as Fury? My 2.5k dps on boss dummy in iLvl 232/245 stuff suggested something like that

I never managed to get that achievement in Gun'drak. For some reason the last transform always went through. Last time it was the cat who decided that NOW was the time to jump on a group members keyboard.

Run it with a smart person who has a silence ability. Kick the first two while DPSing then silence a second later = GG.

[Maèl]

Run it with a smart person who has a silence ability. Kick the first two while DPSing then silence a second later = GG.

So it would be best if I saved my Shield Bash for the second interrupt?
My last try on this has been quite a while. Last time I tanked him, I recall that I Shield Bashed him, he transformed and was dead a second or so later. My memory is a little bit fuzzy on that, but I always Shield Bash his first transform on the off chance that DPS gets the hint.

[Bashal]

So it would be best if I saved my Shield Bash for the second interrupt?
My last try on this has been quite a while. Last time I tanked him, I recall that I Shield Bashed him, he transformed and was dead a second or so later. My memory is a little bit fuzzy on that, but I always Shield Bash his first transform on the off chance that DPS gets the hint.

Assuming you outgear the instance, go in there with a tank and 4 dps (have a healer that is dual specced dps).

Pop heroism/bloodlust/etc if you have it, and on the first transform, wait until it is almost finished casting before interrupting it.

If your DPS is high enough, he doesn't attempt any other transforms.