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Thread: The lost art of interrupting.

  1. #21
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    I feel you Karl.

    The Wow forums are full of the Sky is falling and WoW is broken threads but I think the beginning of the end really lies here.

    Finding anyone with any kind of talent and or willingness to improve to fill your raids and guild rosters with is equivalent to a "diamond in the rough." The Dungeon Finder is an eye opener to just how bad things have gotten.

    Blizzard likes to encourage the player base to help those new people but to be honest 5 years in and my patience is wafer thin. I can see your guild helping with things like perfecting rotations or min/maxing but the basics need to be explained in the game at some point somewhere. I "feel" that veteran players are gettingless and less tolerant. While at the same time the "masses" (loaded term sorry) are feeling ever increasingly entitled and increasingly rude whenever someone tries to point out an area to improve.

    I have yet to have a Random Heroic where I did not have to explain why it's beneficial to attack from behind for melee, what Line of Sight means, or have Rankwatch explode at half my group. Not to mention I soundly squash my dps by at least 10% more damage done routinely as the tank.

    No one understands threat at all. In HoR I continually have healers running out in front getting jumped by the incoming mobs (using the follow behind Arthas strat), Healers standing in the middle of AoE trash packs. Ret paladins Divine Storming and dropping consecrate before my first AoE attack has even gone off. The list goes on...

    To have this not be simple QQ here is what I would love to see to improve the player base:

    1) Detailed tutorials that must be completed covering not only class basics but the basics of mob mechanics, threat, focus targets, how to assist, group roles and play expectations.

    2) Tank threat needs to be brought down a bit. Force DPS and to a lesser extent Healers to wake-up a bit and turn off auto-pilot.

    3) Place at least one fight (end boss) in each dungeon that requires some skill to complete.

    4) Trash dangerous enough that you'll really want to CC something until the final tiers of gear are out for the expansion.

    5) Lower emblem requirements to reflect the harder (longer completion time) instances.

    Just some thoughts off the top of my head.

    Off-topic:

    Was initially attracted to this thread from its title. There is currently a post on my guild site titled "The Lost Art of the Assist" that I wrote when I got frustrated over similar situations early in WotLK. Been thinking of posting it here for a long time.
    Last edited by Arikak; 01-20-2010 at 01:43 AM.
    "A man can learn twice as much from milking a cat as two men can from a very tall fourth man.
    - Mark "Alec Baldwin" Twain

  2. #22
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    Only on a related note: whenever I see a skull marked target go down last something dies inside a little.

    On Vezax25 I had to constantly call out "group1 interrupt","group2 interupt","group1......".
    I had to resort to this because dps-ers just couldn't do it themselves.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by orcstar View Post
    On Vezax25 I had to constantly call out "group1 interrupt","group2 interupt","group1......".
    I had to resort to this because dps-ers just couldn't do it themselves.
    That is call for verbal abuse on vent, imo.

  4. #24
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    I've always thought it would be a good idea for packs in an instance to have a stacking buff similar to the leaders in AV, up to 600% extra damage, if you don't have the mobs CC'd, and you can't just CC then break it, so that if you DO NOT CC you will die, period

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by orcstar View Post
    Only on a related note: whenever I see a skull marked target go down last something dies inside a little.
    Feel your pain, but I will not fold! I will keep interrupting, ccing and what not.

    As mentioned before, as tank and as healer, the mobs in PoS, before gaunlet, are designed to be cced and interrupted, it just takes a few seconds, and it would make healers and tanks lives a lot easier.

    Yes, all mobs can be gathered and aoed, but it is more efficient to interrupt casters, I am thinking of the trash in ICC.

    Maybe a question for education when pugging, and with new recruits in guild.

  6. #26
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    Bad or inexperienced players don't interrupt things. What I don't understand is what makes you think that things were in any way better in the past? Sure, Reliquary of Souls was the single most challenging interrupt encounter that left my eyes bleeding and my nerves shattered week after week but let's be honest - the vast majority of players never stepped inside black temple. I don't think things are any worse than they used to be, no matter what nostalgia and rose tinted glasses might tell you.

    I think the game itself does not make things easier. The default user interface does not make it easy to see when a mob is casting a spell and what it is. You'd need to look at the top left corner of the screen to see the target unitframe, hell I'm not even sure that castbars are enabled by default. Now any experienced player will have customised their UI with Quartz or Pitbull or whatever to make it really obvious when an interruptible cast is going off, but it's not unreasonable to recognise that new players or alts might not have done that.

    Really good rogues are a rare thing I think. They can make a lot of pve content a lot easier by fully employing the many tricks they have in their bag, but they are not necessarily easy or intuitive things to do. Example: I ran HoR on my rogue, used tricks of the trade on the tank then dismantled and stabbed the ghost hunter, bringing him into the tank (or tricks->garotte to bring in the mage). If I hadn't tanked the instance and known how annoying the hunter was, I probably wouldn't have thought to do that.

  7. #27
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    ...this is why I love how the LFG tool has caused some DPS to have a second tank spec for queue time. You can tell if somebody has already tanked the instance.
    Too bad counterspell got removed with WotLK. It used to be nifty and will surely be missed.

    SIMON DE MONTFORT, EARL OF LEICESTER
    pioneer of representative government who was
    killed in the Battle of Evesham on 4 August 1265.


  8. #28
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    This thread has been an interesting read. I have noticed the same thing as everyone else. Interrupts are becoming a lost art, but one I hope will return.

    Too me, most of the issue is coming from people who only start to play there toons at lvl 80. Most just auto level, and never really learn how to play there character. The only time they see the inside of and instance from lvl 15-80, is if a lvl 80 friend runs them through for quests and gear.

    I have recently started to level an ALT mage, and I use the new LFD feature every single day. I am hopping that this feature will make it so that more and more new players will start to learn how to play as a group again, and learn that the DPS meters are just crap, and that there character of choice has many jobs to perform.

    Only time will tell, but I think things will get better soon. Now, to all you 80's out there.STOOOOPPPP auto running them low level guild mates. Make them learn how to play. For the love of GOD, I beg you...

  9. #29
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    I think my favorite still remains a guild-run 10-man Naxx back in pre-3.2.

    We're just mowing stuff down best we can. nuke Spider Wing like we always do. (hence why I never go back to Naxx unless it's for a VERY good reason. so sick of seeing Maexxna and her poisons.) Then we move onto another wing and so-forth...

    Finally we're at the pipe leading to Gluth, and after summoning the few people who were goofy or laggy enough to fall off the pipe, the RL asks who's got the strongest kiting experience to kite the zombie-chow.

    I kid you not here, folks. Probably sixty full seconds of dead silence before BOTH our hunters go 'uhhhh...I...never really kited.' or 'It's...been a REALLY long time since I've kited.'

    RL goes to the mages we had 'you guys any better?'

    'um...the hell is kiting?'

    Yeah...we got him down, but the hunters at least I would have thought would have been acquainted with the concept of kiting. Same thing goes for Interrupts. last time I did KT, I think I was the only one interrupting Frostbolts. Not like the healers couldn't handle it but still.

    Sad thing is that at one point I pondered putting together a night specifically for refreshing people on these skills. I was pretty much given flak and talked out of it because 'there's not really a need for it these days.'
    "I don't have a dream, so I protect the dreams of others."~Inui Takumi

  10. #30
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    Interesting read, and I'm sure most of us have experience with this. As an example, I was doing my random the other day, got Old Kingdom. My group was all from the same guild, usually that turns out well, and they had fairly good gear. So we get through the first few trash mobs and I'm already worried. Healer doesn't heal himself at all...when I first tried healing on my pally I was so focused on other health bars that I forgot to heal myself sometimes, so I figure he might be practicing an offspec, no biggie. We proceed to the dudes with the half-an-hour casts that take half my life away. We have a rogue and a dk, so I'm not too worried. Obviously, since I'm posting in this thread, no one interrupts (I had already used my 2, as a paladin). So one of them gets through, no huge deal, the other mobs aren't gonna kill me, even with half health. Next we have a group with two of them, i say, "(Rogue), (DK, whatever their names were), make sure to interrupt the long casts." Lo and behold, both the blasts go off at very close to teh same time and I go from full to dead in an instant.
    Yeah, that was a fail group, no one interrupted, none of the dps over 2k, all in gear that should pull 4k in heroics. I tried to be patient, but when the 1200 dps rogue dropped group after the wipe, I figured it was best that I spend my time doing other things.

  11. #31
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    My Resto Shaman regularly does more interrupts then DPS. My best run was in Pit of Saron with the following group:

    Myself (Resto Shaman)
    Paladin Tank
    Death Knight
    Fury Warrior
    Rogue

    Recount listed the Interrupts for that run as the following:

    Shaman: 29
    Paladin: 5
    DK: 2
    Warrior: 0
    Rogue: 0

    My Shaman always interrupts more then the DPS, I just don't understand it.

    My Fav is when people don't Interrupt the Spellflingers in Old Kingdom and then I drop from 60% to Dead, because you know the Only Marked Target -has- to die last. Last time I looked their Shadow Bolts hit me for 27k or so. The Worshippers with their 7k 3500 / tick Flamestrikes always die last and always get the Flamestrike off. Go Go 1 minute cooldown on Bash.

    On a related note, a lot of mobs in Halls of Stone and Halls of Lightning use a Forked Lightning attack, most runs I've done with a pickup tank don't spin them so the group takes massively avoidable damage.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tylovan View Post
    I think my favorite still remains a guild-run 10-man Naxx back in pre-3.2.

    We're just mowing stuff down best we can. nuke Spider Wing like we always do. (hence why I never go back to Naxx unless it's for a VERY good reason. so sick of seeing Maexxna and her poisons.) Then we move onto another wing and so-forth...

    Finally we're at the pipe leading to Gluth, and after summoning the few people who were goofy or laggy enough to fall off the pipe, the RL asks who's got the strongest kiting experience to kite the zombie-chow.

    I kid you not here, folks. Probably sixty full seconds of dead silence before BOTH our hunters go 'uhhhh...I...never really kited.' or 'It's...been a REALLY long time since I've kited.'

    RL goes to the mages we had 'you guys any better?'

    'um...the hell is kiting?'

    Yeah...we got him down, but the hunters at least I would have thought would have been acquainted with the concept of kiting. Same thing goes for Interrupts. last time I did KT, I think I was the only one interrupting Frostbolts. Not like the healers couldn't handle it but still.

    Sad thing is that at one point I pondered putting together a night specifically for refreshing people on these skills. I was pretty much given flak and talked out of it because 'there's not really a need for it these days.'
    The old school hunters had to master kiting or they would have never finished their epic quest chain. That was kiting or you are dead. And you only had a shot at it every couple of hours.

    SIMON DE MONTFORT, EARL OF LEICESTER
    pioneer of representative government who was
    killed in the Battle of Evesham on 4 August 1265.


  13. #33
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    I knew a rogue that basically refused to put kick on her action bar.... >.<

    As was said, it's people new to the game, where interrupts are only crucial in a few encounters and you can get by without them in others, they're more of a "would be nice if" in those other cases. Its also alt syndrome, just not being used to all the abilities of their alt.

    And its also people who should know better getting "untrained" because it isn't needed as often. I used to be pretty good with trap kiting on my hunter, for example. I kind of suck at it now, I'd have a lot of rust to blow off.

  14. #34
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    Right up there with classes that can unterrupt and not doing so are classes that can remove poisons, diseases, magic effects, or curses and not doing so.

    It seems like prot and ret pallies forget that they still have the ability to cleanse and heal. I've noticed this a lot while playing on my priest, who can get the diseases and magic effects, but not poisons. I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen a non-holy pally cleanse.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akeber View Post
    Right up there with classes that can unterrupt and not doing so are classes that can remove poisons, diseases, magic effects, or curses and not doing so.

    It seems like prot and ret pallies forget that they still have the ability to cleanse and heal. I've noticed this a lot while playing on my priest, who can get the diseases and magic effects, but not poisons. I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen a non-holy pally cleanse.
    I can see your point. I play a prot pally and sometimes ret. In heroics, if I think a debuff is going to cause problems, I'll cleanse it. I have it bound to the clique addon so I can remove poisons and such from group members easily. The poison form the mini-Icks in PoS hurts a bit, so I'll remove that from group members, mostly just because it keeps things interesting, not because the healer needs me to. Same with the poison spear things that the Vanguards in HoL do and Skadi in UP. Back in the Naxx days, I'd always handle my own cleansing on Maexxna and have my healers as a back-up. But, to be honest, if I'm not worried about taking too much damage, I don't bother cleansing unless I don't feel like putting consecration down on a few mobs or something.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akeber View Post
    Right up there with classes that can unterrupt and not doing so are classes that can remove poisons, diseases, magic effects, or curses and not doing so.

    It seems like prot and ret pallies forget that they still have the ability to cleanse and heal. I've noticed this a lot while playing on my priest, who can get the diseases and magic effects, but not poisons. I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen a non-holy pally cleanse.
    This reminds me of an OS25 many many months ago. The trash with the healing curse. Comment from the PUG raid leader. "We have two boomkins, a feral druid, and three mages. Why wasn't even ONE curse dispelled?"

    Reply from one boomkin "We don't have a resto druid."
    "Just because it's not nice doesn't mean it's not miraculous." - T. P.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Akeber View Post
    Right up there with classes that can unterrupt and not doing so are classes that can remove poisons, diseases, magic effects, or curses and not doing so.

    It seems like prot and ret pallies forget that they still have the ability to cleanse and heal. I've noticed this a lot while playing on my priest, who can get the diseases and magic effects, but not poisons. I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen a non-holy pally cleanse.
    I main a ret paladin now and I actually have a mouse-over macro for all my hands, lay on hands, flash of light, and cleanse. To be perfectly honest I try to avoid the last two as much as possible, but if I see someone in dire need of a small heal I'll throw them a flash of light on an art of war proc. The healers in our raids are generally good at getting cleanses as well, but if I see them piling up I have no problem in aiding them. On Faction champs I often spend half my time mashing the cleanse button depending on the comp.

    As far as using holy light goes though, I don't think there's many situations that call for the ret paladin to throw out a "big" heal. If it's coming down to that then the raids already in trouble.

  18. #38
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    I was going to say "You'd think that 80 levels would teach them how to play" but then I thought about something - back before LFG, and back when I was in a smaller less selective guild.

    Newer players were constantly asking level 70+ players "can you run me through x". This means that for a lot of the lower levels players who did go through dungeons (and some just waited until 80) all they had to do was DPS and run after the high level player who could have just soloed the instance.
    What was the amount learned about collaborative playing/use of skills/mob management...oh about 0.

    While LFG isn't a surefire cure for this it has its potential. When it's 5 level 65 folks going through Sethekk Halls if you are going to make it through there is a good chance that CC and attacking the mind control staves is going to happen. Yeah they've nerfed the instances to the point that you can mostly stupid your way through them - but the chances of someone learning to use the skill of their class is way higher. I've heard lots of advice and education in these runs as well.

    Anyway, stupid play is a pain, and I've seen it in PuGs and occasionally in guild. I try to use it as a fun challenge where I can but there is a limit to what a tank can do (and a limit to my having a positive attitude.)

    In my guild we try to educate where we can. I've been blessed with excellent rogues (nice interrupts), smart hunters (thank you for silencing the other caster mob since I can only throw at one), wise shamans (thank you for the tremor totem) and the like. With the up and coming tanks I write posts to help with the beginner stuff and give them advice when I play with them.

    Educating where we can (and I know some folks aren't open to listening) and the LFG give me hope that things will improve. 100%? Yeah not likely. But I think things will be getting better.
    Last edited by Zurena; 01-20-2010 at 11:23 AM. Reason: fixed instance name

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zurena View Post
    Newer players were constantly asking level 70+ players "can you run me through x".
    In that context, putting a low-level instance inside a city: Worst. Idea. Ever.

    "can u run me threw stocks?"

    "no."

    >.<
    Last edited by Bashal; 01-20-2010 at 01:49 PM.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tylovan View Post
    I think my favorite still remains a guild-run 10-man Naxx back in pre-3.2.

    We're just mowing stuff down best we can. nuke Spider Wing like we always do. (hence why I never go back to Naxx unless it's for a VERY good reason. so sick of seeing Maexxna and her poisons.) Then we move onto another wing and so-forth...

    Finally we're at the pipe leading to Gluth, and after summoning the few people who were goofy or laggy enough to fall off the pipe, the RL asks who's got the strongest kiting experience to kite the zombie-chow.

    I kid you not here, folks. Probably sixty full seconds of dead silence before BOTH our hunters go 'uhhhh...I...never really kited.' or 'It's...been a REALLY long time since I've kited.'

    RL goes to the mages we had 'you guys any better?'

    'um...the hell is kiting?'

    Yeah...we got him down, but the hunters at least I would have thought would have been acquainted with the concept of kiting. Same thing goes for Interrupts. last time I did KT, I think I was the only one interrupting Frostbolts. Not like the healers couldn't handle it but still.

    Sad thing is that at one point I pondered putting together a night specifically for refreshing people on these skills. I was pretty much given flak and talked out of it because 'there's not really a need for it these days.'
    I refuse to kite on my mage, I'm good at it, but I refuse to put up with the jackassery that is hunters shooting them then whining that I'm not kiting good enough, or the tree healer going bear blowing challenging roar, then whining that I'm not kiting good enough, or the jackass hunter trying to kill them, or the jackass hunter dropping explosive trap, mainly I want to shove the hunters head down a fish grinder

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