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Thread: HOR HC interesting find

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcomrade View Post
    "Death Grip X to me please" can either be the sign of a good tank who wants to grab the other mobs quickly or a lazy ass tank who wants to stand in one spot and spam consecrate and not actually move over to ranged mobs
    You're lucky if you have a consecrate to stand on.

    First time in there, I would stand on the pally's consecrate and hit bloodrage. It was like a homing beacon for all the melee. Ghetto MD...

    But you're right, the waves are about the tank running like mad to pick people up. Think Sarth add tank, or to a much lesser extend Worms on the way to Hodir. You gotta attack the mobs to pick them up. But it's so easy to get paralyzed by the target overload. Especially when half of them are heading to the healer - and like TBC some are capable of 2-shotting him/her.

  2. #22
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    If adds are running around it's everyone else's fault for grabbing aggro and not his fault for having 0 aggro on them in the first place, amirite?
    Actually, it often is. I don't want to re-hash the multitude of Tanks vs. Dps arguments that have been had up here so I will simply offer this one piece of advice: if you do pull aggro, run to your tank and not away.

    I've found the best strat for that room is not to ask people to CC but to assign (politely!). I have a DK in 90% of the random groups I get (anyone else notice this?) so I mark a deathgrip target for them. Same goes for shackle, silence, counterspell and disarm. Having even one ranged guy brought in makes all the difference.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joowa View Post
    I am going to disagree with you. More for the debate than telling another tank what to do. Do what feels best for you.

    That nook is, imo a death trap. You can't see anything. Hunters seem to end up doing melee rather than range, spell casters cannot get their first casts off until everything is on them.

    I so much prefer being on the attack in the hall. Placing my range against the closed door by the walls and standing just where it opens up into the main hall. I've run this now over 20 times and the hall is so much easier.

    Crowd Control (for those talking about BC ) helps a heck of a lot. Using the TC, cleave, shockwave to grab the melee that comes in for the casters, letting a DK do a deathgrip to bring in the mage or hunter, a pally to cause repentance or allowing a rouge or other melee dps to go after the mage seems to really work wonderfully.

    Also. I love disarming the hunter. I had so forgotten about that until HoR and now it is back in my rotation again.
    This! I tried this tactic a few times and I hate it. No overview of the situation. Standing at the entance gives me much more time figuring out where the mobs come from and act acordingly.
    Conviniently I have my hunter friend with me who icetraps the hunter.

  4. #24
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    I have found that certain tank/healer combinations limit how much a tank can handle. I've seen situations where the tank had 3 melee on them and nearly went down despite healing spam. In situations like these you don't want to have another highish source of damage on the tank.

    2 tanking that part of the encounter can be a viable strat as long as your other tank can easily switch to doing nice DPS without gear/spec change. A bear going kitty should do the trick for instance. You don't have to do 5k dps on the boss. Just some.

    As for CC there aren't too many classes who can take undead out of the game. Rooting ranged mobs(which propably are the biggest problem) obviously isn't always useful.

    SIMON DE MONTFORT, EARL OF LEICESTER
    pioneer of representative government who was
    killed in the Battle of Evesham on 4 August 1265.


  5. #25
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    It may have its flaws but im just saying in a particularly average group we 2 tanked all of the waves and first bosses an it worked absolutly fine.

    maybe we where just lucky

    are we sure these waves are timed because we wasnt exactly quick killing the waves but i never saw a second wave spawn while we where fighting
    Last edited by woodyman; 01-19-2010 at 06:19 AM.

  6. #26
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    The waves are definitely on a timer, and the bosses can also spawn while trash is still alive.

  7. #27
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    As a result of running this instance, I have specced for Silence, on my Shadow Priest. I have tried Shackle, and it seems to only work if I'm in the hallway strat, and I'm lucky enough to find a mob that's far away from the tank.

    I believe the most crucial part of that fight is for everyone to give extra time initially, for the tank to gather/gain aggro, and if in the alcove, stay LOS, but move out of the corner, and spread out a bit, once the first one or two mobs are engaged.

    For some reason, I have not yet gone in there, on my Arms Warrior, even though I run him every day, at least 2-4 randoms. I'm not much of a stance dancer, but I would like to "make a statement" to those melee mobs who enjoy 2-shotting my priest!

    I'm not against the idea of having two tanks in there, although fighting the two mini-bosses might be problematic...would be an interesting test.

    I may bring it up to my guildies, and friends, to see if they'd want to try it...
    -"Just like a buzzin' fly, I come into your life, I'll float away, like honey in the sun..."--Tim Buckley

  8. #28
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    Speaking of Arms: It is totally viable to tank the ranged mobs with a twohander. They hit like wusses but should be kept off the healer. A rogue can own the caster mob like no tomorrow. Some DPS really can solo some of the mobs with a heal or two.

    SIMON DE MONTFORT, EARL OF LEICESTER
    pioneer of representative government who was
    killed in the Battle of Evesham on 4 August 1265.


  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue View Post
    As a result of running this instance, I have specced for Silence, on my Shadow Priest. I have tried Shackle, and it seems to only work if I'm in the hallway strat, and I'm lucky enough to find a mob that's far away from the tank.
    .

    I had an Spriest last night that would pop out, shackle one mob on the opposite side of the room as soon as the wave spawned, pop back into the corner. It's risky since you take a little aggro, but she had one mob on lockdown (usually the hunter or mage) every single wave. Which made the waves substantially easier

    All us tanks are ingrained to spam aoes in there to hold aggro so short-range CC isn't likely to succeed. But if you can keep hit the mob when it's far away (espscially the hunters, who like to run away from the tank), it's a help.

    Two tanks seems like a bad idea. The second half of the isntance (the flight) is basically a DPS check.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eisen View Post
    I had an Spriest last night that would pop out, shackle one mob on the opposite side of the room as soon as the wave spawned, pop back into the corner. It's risky since you take a little aggro, but she had one mob on lockdown (usually the hunter or mage) every single wave. Which made the waves substantially easier

    All us tanks are ingrained to spam aoes in there to hold aggro so short-range CC isn't likely to succeed. But if you can keep hit the mob when it's far away (espscially the hunters, who like to run away from the tank), it's a help.

    Two tanks seems like a bad idea. The second half of the isntance (the flight) is basically a DPS check.
    Oh, yeah, I'm not blind to the fact that a tank will use aoe, and it's a must, in there. I was referring to shackling a mob, who is off to the side, and then a dps will hit it, a second later, when they should be hitting something more "in the pack" the tank has gathered. Since I have "Silence", I can really shut down those mages. Too bad it's a two minute cool down.

    Hadn't really thought of "popping out" to shackle, but it sounds doable. Have to get my camera setting just right, before the start, so I can see where to target, and the earliest point in time to do so. I can always "Fade", if attacked. The risky part is if I get the attention of a melee...they can two-shot me!

    On the Arms warrior side (my main), I finally got in there, yesterday. I don't know if it was the group makeup, but it seemed a lot easier, even though my only "stun" is my charge. I do have a couple of shouts that will slow 'em down, and reduce their damage. Mainly, though, I just kills 'em, and that's good enough!
    -"Just like a buzzin' fly, I come into your life, I'll float away, like honey in the sun..."--Tim Buckley

  11. #31
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    Shackle
    Frost Trap
    Turn Evil
    Repentance
    Priests, hunters and paladins can all keep stuff far away for a reasonable while. I try to turn evil any mob I can as a tankadin. Any mob really, just to make things easier to manage.

  12. #32
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    Since this seems to have become a discussion of H:HoR as a whole... Is it possible that the waves are drawing healing aggro before/as they spawn? I know it's anecdotal at best, but on my (failed) attempts to tank it last night the group wanted to use the "hide in the alcove method" and every mob would show up on Omen as having the healer at the top of the chart from the get-go. Aside from my own failings with tanking the place, having the hunters and mages start off by drawing a bead on the healer made it doubly hard for me.

    Has anyone else noticed this or was I just imagining things?

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kennris View Post
    Is it possible that the waves are drawing healing aggro before/as they spawn?
    Yep. They start gaining threat as soon as they activate. So if your healer waits to top off the tank until the next waves spawn, they'll beeline to the healer.

    And yeah, CC makes the first half of HoR a breeze.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue View Post
    Oh, yeah, I'm not blind to the fact that a tank will use aoe, and it's a must, in there. I was referring to shackling a mob, who is off to the side, and then a dps will hit it, a second later, when they should be hitting something more "in the pack" the tank has gathered.
    Can't cure stupid, I'm afraid.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eisen View Post
    Can't cure stupid, I'm afraid.
    See my sig.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eisen View Post
    Two tanks seems like a bad idea. The second half of the isntance (the flight) is basically a DPS check.
    Dual spec. Two-tank the waves, then one of them goes DPS spec for the rest of the instance. Easy as pie.

    I do this with my guildies all the time. Faster than me being fury for the waves, really, and a lot easier on the healer. I charge around/silence/bash the casters, and the other tank picks up the melee. Once waves are over, back to fury for the rest of the instance. Basically the 2nd tank IS the CC.

  17. #37
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    You have a point there Mavfin...except one thing.

    While it's a valid tactic, it would be completely unecessary if DPS did simple things like crowd control or focus fire on one bloody target.

    There's be no need for two tanks if deeps get their heads out of their damage meters and start focusing on getting the job done.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eisen View Post
    You have a point there Mavfin...except one thing.

    While it's a valid tactic, it would be completely unecessary if DPS did simple things like crowd control or focus fire on one bloody target.

    There's be no need for two tanks if deeps get their heads out of their damage meters and start focusing on getting the job done.
    Neither is incorrect. The second is just as effective as the first but has more conditionals. It's also more reasonable to expect two tanks to perform okay than three dps to perform "better than blind, deaf, half-retarded, brainless dyslexic depressive enraged spamfest".


    Thankfully, for some reason, H HoR is sort of weeding out the bads. So many bads give up immediately upon loading the instance that the bad:notbad ratio is decreasing.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joowa View Post
    I am going to disagree with you. More for the debate than telling another tank what to do. Do what feels best for you.

    That nook is, imo a death trap. You can't see anything. Hunters seem to end up doing melee rather than range, spell casters cannot get their first casts off until everything is on them.
    Depends on how you're doing it.

    When i do HoR, i do the nook strategy. But that involves everyone EXCEPT ME hiding. I stand in plain sight as the bait for all the ranged. Once the mage/hunter stand at range to hit me, the rest can pop out of their hiding and apply any cc they want, knowing it wont be broken 2 secs later. Even if cc isnt available, i use available tools (spellreflect tanking on the mage, heroic throw on the hunter, or just deathcoils if i'm on my dk) to keep them at range while the dps happily burn down the melee including the priest. Good part of this is the healer can always stand hidden and i know if he pulls aggro since it'll take any mob some running time.


    If dps is low, following Arthas from behind helps a ton. Mob spawns happen on top of you and since there's no running time for them, you have more dps time on the mobs.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mačl View Post
    Speaking of Arms: It is totally viable to tank the ranged mobs with a twohander. They hit like wusses but should be kept off the healer. A rogue can own the caster mob like no tomorrow. Some DPS really can solo some of the mobs with a heal or two.
    When I'm in there dpsing on my Death Knight, I'll usually Deathgrip the hunter in and then go kill the mage on my own. Between Strangulate and Mind Freeze, it'll rarely get a cast off, and if it does it's Death Strike ftw.

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