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Thread: New Shield Slam DR Formula

  1. #1
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    New Shield Slam DR Formula

    In response to the new ... 'change' to Shield Slam, I've started to look at how the new formula will work out.

    The old one is
    Code:
    Base + IF(Block<2400;Block;2400+0,95*(MIN(3160;Block)-2400)-0,000625*(MIN(3160;Block)-2400)^2)
    Or spread up:
    * BV < 2400: BV damage = BV
    * BV > 2400: BV damage = 2400 + 0.95*(Block-2400)-6.25E*(Block-2400)^2
    * If BV > 3160, use that number instead, which ends up as 2400 + 361 = 2761

    As the DR softcap is now lowered to 1960, while the hardcap (for original BV value) remains the same, the constants in that formula have to change. Unfortunately we only know the hardcap, which is 2072 for an original BV of 3160.
    If the formula is using a similar style as before, we get
    Code:
    X * (Block-1960) - Y * (Block-1960)^2
    Filling in 3160:
    Code:
    X * (3160-1960) - Y * (3160-1960)^2 = 2072-1960
    X * 1200 - Y * 1200^2 = 112
    X = 1200 * Y + 112/1200(=7/75)
    It is currently impossible to determine X and Y untill we get more data points, which will probably be when it goes live. The same goes for the threat addition, although I'm looking at about 200-300 threat innate added if they wish to keep the threat the same.

    Additional Thoughts on the SS change:
    * The innate threat will now be 30-35% of the total threat, as opposed to the current ~20%. Innate threat does not scale with damage modifiers.
    * The damage reduction on SS is almost equal to simply not having Imp. Disarm. Only one of 'em is a pure PvP thing.
    * They want to reduce burst, yet nerf overall Shield Slam damage rather than fix Shield Block still boosting it's damage past the cap?
    * SW & CB will now out-perform SS without SB as pure threat and damage moves.
    * After doing preliminary math on it, I still think of this as "Seriously WTF?"
    Last edited by Airowird; 02-03-2010 at 05:41 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
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  2. #2
    Instead of causing problems for pve situations as far as class mechanics and abilities function in a pvp aspect could just simply be changed by making shield slam act differently in a pvp setting and then a different way in pve. It would make so many things less annoying.

    I just don't understand blizzard sometimes...
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  3. #3
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    Yes, I came to the same general conclusion while prototyping it in Rawr the other day. It doesn't appear to be a very optimal change, from the numbers point of view.
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  4. #4
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    Right. So our class defining iconic ability will be something you use when other stuff is on cooldown. While I understand the need to balance pvp - I'm not liking this change much.
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  5. #5
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    question: in regards to SS being quite badly hurt, is it going to beworth taking S'n'B once this change goes live?
    Last edited by Penlowe; 01-19-2010 at 06:56 AM.

  6. #6
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    Although this change will hurt warriors in the DPS department I highly doubt it will change the way we play or spend our Talents. The lost threat from damage will very very likely be replaced with a higher static threat. I guess we will manage to live with the change till cataclysm, since there is no new item tier comming which would outscale the static threat for other classes by a large margin. And since we have no choice regarding the change we have to live with it no matter what.

    On the plus side at some point Blizzard hopefully will lose their interest in beating a class thats already lying on the floor any further because of their cute little Arena world. At least I want to believe this.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    question: in regards to SS being quite badly hurt, is it going to beworth taking S'n'B once this change goes live?
    SnB is still worth it because other than the proc chance it's still giving your Devastate 15% to crit.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoso View Post
    SnB is still worth it because other than the proc chance it's still giving your Devastate 15% to crit.
    Yep. Sadly, the Shield Slam affecting talents pretty much all have secondary effects that are globally useful and thus even if you chose to rarely use Shield Slam will still likely get them.

    Something to note here is that the T10 2-set, if you use it, props up Shield Slam quite well even after the nerf. The problem is really for those not using the bonus.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    question: in regards to SS being quite badly hurt, is it going to beworth taking S'n'B once this change goes live?
    You'ld still take it just for the Devastate gains
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    question: in regards to SS being quite badly hurt, is it going to beworth taking S'n'B once this change goes live?
    One thing others have not mentioned is SS is still free when SnB procs.

    As others have stated it's not the end of the world; but I still can't say I'm happy with a signifigant DPS/TPS reduction to our class, especially given how low our damage is compared to other tanks.

  11. #11
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    In all seriousness I don't think this change (As described by Bornakk) will make it live.

    It simply does not address the real issue in PvProt which is ArP. Make shield slam and maybe Shockwave not affected by ArP. Add in the change to Warbringer and I think they will find their sweet spot for PvProt.
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  12. #12
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    My shield slams were noticeably smaller last night.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tengenstein View Post
    just don't let them melee you up the bum.

  13. #13
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    If this push has made it to live I find it quite sad because to obtain equal or better numbers after the nerf we have to get teir 10 2 set bonus. Without the 2 set bonus shield slam just got hit for any tank just starting up. It just seems BV is becoming more and more a unbalanced stat issue. Even the glyph of blocking I think is now even worth less when it comes to amount of threat from the bonus of 10% block value.

  14. #14
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    IMO if they want to fix this issue in arena the nerf should be concentrated on the interaction of SS, SB, and ArP. The problem is not so much the damage on SS, it's the damage of SS, with SB up, AND 50%+ ArP.

    I'd think changing it so the additional SBV Damage from SB is not multiplied by ArP bonus' or some such deal.

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  15. #15
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    If anyone has any numbers on the new SS with >1960 Block value, let me know!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
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  16. #16
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    I can give you data points tonight, i'll put on my anub set and hit the dummy.

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  17. #17
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    Own results:
    2850 Block value
    Heroic dummy in Orgrimmar

    Shield Slam damage: 2052-2087 (sample size 100)
    Shockwave damage: 1690.25 compared to 2747 tooltip (sample size 40)
    Armor reduction: ~38.47%
    Expected armor: 10400
    SS dmg = 1089-1144 + SB value
    Post-armor base SS value: 670.07-703.912
    SB paper doll lower side = 2245.92
    SB paper doll upper side = 2247.8
    SB contribution past cap: 285.92-287.8 (Average = ~287)
    Block - 1960 = 890

    Using the same assumptions as the original post:
    Code:
    ~287 = X * 890 - Y * 890^2
    With X = 1200*Y + 7/75
    I apply a bit of math, and (assuming rounding was made at SOME point) get ...
    Code:
    X = 0.98
    Y = 0.00073885
    This seems to be relatively accurate, but it's kinda late here atm, so could've made a mistake.

    If anyone has any numbers to compare, feel free to post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ion
    Damn old people, screwin' with my grind.
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